World Agenda: Kashmir - the elephant in the room

[roadrunner]

With all the US military in the region, demilitarizing Kashmir should be pretty easy.

It seems, Pakistan is up for it. What do you say, Indians? Now is as good a time as any to carry out your legal obligations under international law.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Now is as good a time as any to carry out your legal obligations under international law.

I don't think they care about law, morality and commitments, so long as they benefit.

That is precisely why Pakistan resorted to military and insurgency based action in the past.

 

[Vinod2070]

Guys, get over this self-reinforcing circular logic!

You are no "Dudh ka dhulas"! You may justify everything that you have done in your mind. The rest of the world has a very different image of Pakistan.

Ever wondered why! Is it all an anti-Islamic, anti-Pakistan conspiracy? Has Pakistan done something to cause that perception where the name starts negative connotations in most minds around the world!

India has no pending legal obligations to anyone. What is left is to give peace and stability to Kashmir and that is within sights now.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Guys, get over this self-reinforcing circular logic!

You are no "Dudh ka dhulas"! You may justify everything that you have done in your mind. The rest of the world has a very different image of Pakistan.

Ever wondered why! Is it all an anti-Islamic, anti-Pakistan conspiracy? Has Pakistan done something to cause that perception where the name starts negative connotations in most minds around the world!

India has no pending legal obligations to anyone. What is left is to give peace and stability to Kashmir and that is within sights now.

Actually on Kashmir the world retains an image that conforms to Pakistan's stance on Kashmir - otherwise the 'rest of the world' would already be considering Kashmir an 'Integral part of India'.

The only party that looks at Kashmir that way is India.

The obligations were accepted when India agreed to the plebiscite under the Instrument of accession and under the UNSC resolutions - your government agreed to it several times and made a commitment and agreement. Your government than violated it.

On Kashmir we are indeed 'Dudh kay dulhay' compared to India.

 

[roadrunner]

Guys, get over this self-reinforcing circular logic!

You are no "Dudh ka dhulas"! You may justify everything that you have done in your mind. The rest of the world has a very different image of Pakistan.

Ever wondered why! Is it all an anti-Islamic, anti-Pakistan conspiracy? Has Pakistan done something to cause that perception where the name starts negative connotations in most minds around the world!

India has no pending legal obligations to anyone. What is left is to give peace and stability to Kashmir and that is within sights now.

It does? I never heard of it. India is not the whole world.

You ask the Chinese, they'll give you a very positive feedback on Pakistan.

That's one billion people.

You ask any western european country what they think of India, it'll not be positive I can assure you. It'll be along the lines of "third world shythole for outsourcing crap jobs to".

Regardless of this trolling and flaming of yours, what do you say of demilitarizing Kashmir now, and fulfilling India's legal obligations under international law, instead of being a proven (see the UN resolutions) terrorist state operating in Kashmir?

PS Jeremy Page, the author quoted at the beginning of this thread is in effect placing the blame for the Kashmir dispute at India's feet, just like Sir Owen Dixon did all those years ago. The world now sees India as an aggresive, I would say terrorist nation in Kashmir (though diplomatic parlance prevents them from saying this out loud).

 

[Vinod2070]

Actually on Kashmir the world retains an image that conforms to Pakistan's stance on Kashmir - otherwise the 'rest of the world' would already be considering Kashmir an 'Integral part of India'.

The only party that looks at Kashmir that way is India.

The obligations were accepted when India agreed to the plebiscite under the Instrument of accession and under the UNSC resolutions - your government agreed to it several times and made a commitment and agreement. Your government than violated it.

On Kashmir we are indeed 'Dudh kay dulhay' compared to India.

Sirjee, the UN resolutions are passe. Even GOP doesn't raise the issue in UN anymore!

Lets play a new record, even better a CD. The gramophone needle is really stuck!

 

[Vinod2070]

It does? I never heard of it. India is not the whole world.

You ask the Chinese, they'll give you a very positive feedback on Pakistan.

That's one billion people.

You ask any western european country what they think of India, it'll not be positive I can assure you. It'll be along the lines of "third world shythole for outsourcing crap jobs to".

Regardless of this trolling and flaming of yours, what do you say of demilitarizing Kashmir now, and fulfilling India's legal obligations under international law, instead of being a proven (see the UN resolutions) terrorist state operating in Kashmir?

PS Jeremy Page, the author quoted at the beginning of this thread is in effect placing the blame for the Kashmir dispute at India's feet, just like Sir Owen Dixon did all those years ago. The world now sees India as an aggresive, I would say terrorist nation in Kashmir (though diplomatic parlance prevents them from saying this out loud).

You live in your own little world. Don't you?

I don't see anyone apart from some Pakistanis say anything about Kashmir at all. So I guess it is not a issue for anyone.

The only thing that comes up at times is it being a nuclear flash point. That is because Pakistan likes to project it as such.

Proven terrorist! What did you smoke today?

I guess the phrase you mentioned was used for the lawless tribal lands where even crap jobs can't be outsourced.

 

[dabong1]

Sirjee, the UN resolutions are passe. Even GOP doesn't raise the issue in UN anymore!

For the moment pakistan is not shouting UN just to see what you indians do......which we all is know is nothing.

Lets play a new record, even better a CD. The gramophone needle is really stuck!

Maybe once india stop playing the old record of "LoC as border" and "kashmir integral part of india" we might change to cd format as you pointed out.

 

[Rafael]

You live in your own little world. Don't you?

I don't see anyone apart from some Pakistanis say anything about Kashmir at all. So I guess it is not a issue for anyone.

The only thing that comes up at times is it being a nuclear flash point. That is because Pakistan likes to project it as such.

Proven terrorist! What did you smoke today?

I guess the phrase you mentioned was used for the lawless tribal lands where even crap jobs can't be outsourced.

No! he meant your very own colonel Prohit

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Sirjee, the UN resolutions are passe. Even GOP doesn't raise the issue in UN anymore!

Lets play a new record, even better a CD. The gramophone needle is really stuck!

Oh no it has t be played continuously to refute this propaganda that Indians spout everywhere of 'beaten us in all three wars, Pakistan violated the UN resolutions, Kashmir is a legal Atoot Ank, Pakistan started the insurgency for no reason'. ect. etc.

The UN resolutions and the instrument of partition form the basis of the defence that India is wrong on all those counts, and indeed is the one who violated the UN resolutions and plunged the region into hostility.

See, Indians try so hard to blame this all on us, when we can now see clearly, with this wonderful tool called teh Internet, and all the information that has been made available, that it was Nehru who was responsible for the entire mess - and not the Pakistan Army, or Islam, or some sort of 'hatred bred into Pakistanis' - All this obfuscation and lies like Operation Topac need to be countered for Pakistanis.

 

[Contrarian]

Actually on Kashmir the world retains an image that conforms to Pakistan's stance on Kashmir - otherwise the 'rest of the world' would already be considering Kashmir an 'Integral part of India'.

The only party that looks at Kashmir that way is India.

The obligations were accepted when India agreed to the plebiscite under the Instrument of accession and under the UNSC resolutions - your government agreed to it several times and made a commitment and agreement. Your government than violated it.

On Kashmir we are indeed 'Dudh kay dulhay' compared to India.

Agnostic you are going around in circles. Others have mentioned again and again that plebicite is out of question as Pakistan has violated the conditions that were laid down for the plebicite to be held.

Now you may argue otherwise, but that is the stance India has stuck to and is sticking to. You may argue its not fair, but India thinks your not fair, so its an endless thing.

Vinod, neither anyone else here is a spokesman of the GoI, pushing and saying 'why doesnt India resolve' now or whatever doesnt get you anywhere closer to what you want.

India will not cede Kashmir, neither will there be a plebicite. Stance of GoI has always been solid on this, and has not wavered. India is not any country for that matter that US can enforce her will to do something that is not what GoI wants to do. US plays no role, as has been mentioned by GoI many times, we donot accept any third party's interference, whatsoever. Period. This is the bottomline. It doesnt matter one bit whether people in this forum call India a "terrorist state" or whatever they want to. Diplomatically, getting India to cede Kashmir is next to impossible. Pakistan doesnt have the diplomatic muscle or influence to make the world capitals that count put pressure on India.

The other option is military, do you think Pakistan will or has the military capability to wrest Kashmir from India? You can answer that question for yourself.

I have already mentioned the logic and advantages for India in maintaining status quo in another post of mine. So what is the point in pushing others(Indian) on this board about Kashmir?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Agnostic you are going around in circles. Others have mentioned again and again that plebicite is out of question as Pakistan has violated the conditions that were laid down for the plebicite to be held.

Now you may argue otherwise, but that is the stance India has stuck to and is sticking to. You may argue its not fair, but India thinks your not fair, so its an endless thing.

Vinod, neither anyone else here is a spokesman of the GoI, pushing and saying 'why doesnt India resolve' now or whatever doesn't get you anywhere closer to what you want.

Ridiculous - India's position has been clearly shown to be completely baseless - and that is the point of making sure that it is highlighted, so that Indians such as yourself cannot spout this absurd propaganda. You could have chosen to show us how India's position is valid, it has been tried by some on the UN resolutions thread, but the evidence is overwhelmingly against it and they were thrashed.

So what do you do, instead of trying to validate India's stance (which is not possible, given the evidence against it) you choose to try and BS your way out of it by saying that 'oh India has its own view on things and Pakistan has its own'.

Hog wash - India has a view that is illegal, and is demonstrably responsible for the hostility that plagued the two nations since Independence.

I do not care whether someone is a 'spokesperson' or not, but when propaganda and distortions are bandied about to malign Pakistan and somehow legitimize India's position on Kashmir, they need to be countered.

India will not cede Kashmir, neither will there be a plebicite. Stance of GoI has always been solid on this, and has not wavered.

Once again you distort and lie - India supported a plebiscite in every UN resolution that was passed and it supported a plebiscite under the instrument of partition.

Its move away from a plebiscite is the violation that needs to be pointed out.

I have already mentioned the logic and advantages for India in maintaining status quo in another post of mine. So what is the point in pushing others(Indian) on this board about Kashmir?

What is the point of talking about anythign on a forum? We after all are not 'spokespeople', who have any impact on most of the subjects discussed here.

The point is about educating people and bringing out information to counter propaganda.

If you do not like it, don't post on these threads.

 

[roadrunner]

You live in your own little world. Don't you?

I don't see anyone apart from some Pakistanis say anything about Kashmir at all. So I guess it is not a issue for anyone.

The quote on the first page by Jeremy Page in a mainstream article puts the blame squarely at India's feet.

"In 1948-9, the United Nations passed resolutions calling for a plebiscite in Kashmir on whether it should join India or Pakistan.

Ever since, India has refused to comply and blocked international efforts to resolve the issue, over which it has fought two of its three wars with Pakistan."

Sir Owen Dixon's done it many times.

Heck even Milliband blamed you.

The only thing that comes up at times is it being a nuclear flash point. That is because Pakistan likes to project it as such.

Proven terrorist! What did you smoke today?

I guess the phrase you mentioned was used for the lawless tribal lands where even crap jobs can't be outsourced.

Does it hurt to be confronted with the truth? If so, don't post provocatively, and your sensitivities shall be spared, but that is the fact. India is seen just as that. You obviously don't know what people think.

And India is a terrorist state for ignoring the UN resolutions, just as Israel is. You two make an ideal partnership.

 

[Vinod2070]

For the moment pakistan is not shouting UN just to see what you indians do......which we all is know is nothing.

Maybe once india stop playing the old record of "LoC as border" and "kashmir integral part of india" we might change to cd format as you pointed out.

There is a big difference!

India is not looking for a change in status quo. You are.

India is not playing any record at all. We are just ensuring security to the Kashmiris by making massive investment in providing them safety and security from the terrorists. They receive the maximum grant per capita from the center and have the lowest poverty of any state in India!

 

[Vinod2070]

The quote on the first page by Jeremy Page in a mainstream article puts the blame squarely at India's feet.

"In 1948-9, the United Nations passed resolutions calling for a plebiscite in Kashmir on whether it should join India or Pakistan.

Ever since, India has refused to comply and blocked international efforts to resolve the issue, over which it has fought two of its three wars with Pakistan."

Sir Owen Dixon's done it many times.

Heck even Milliband blamed you.

Some people may indeed think that way. They don't seem to matter a great deal!

Milliband said that Kashmir needs to be resolved and thought that it is leading to terror in the region. He will learn with time.

Let him first find out the root cause of the London bombings.

Does it hurt to be confronted with the truth? If so, don't post provocatively, and your sensitivities shall be spared, but that is the fact. India is seen just as that. You obviously don't know what people think.

And India is a terrorist state for ignoring the UN resolutions, just as Israel is. You two make an ideal partnership.

I surely don't need you as a mediator to know what the world thinks of India!

We have as much access as you, possibly more. I have many friends in the USA and Canada. We interact with people on the forums from all over. There is nothing new that you can tell me about these issues except what you think or would like to think.

About terrorist state, you remember I gave you a simple google formula about a year back.

It is still valid, try that!