Work on INDIA's BULLET TRAIN is underway in Full Swing

[RISING SUN]

Subject to many assumptions. Freight trains typically run at slower speed which would be scientifically disadvantageous insofar as it would lead to significant wear of track. So the only practical usage would be high-speed freight.

High speed freight would increase freight charges - no study has been made as to whether those would be economically viable - I would be surprised if it was because speed is not an important factor in rail shipments. It's also not something that has proven to be successful internationally.

Even high-speed freight would cause track fatigue - and for track built at a cost of 6-7x of normal track it does not seem like judicious use of an expensive resource.

http://www.strc.ch/conferences/2009/Vidaud.pdf

https://railturkey.org/2014/12/18/high-speed-and-freight-trains-on-same-line/



Don't be silly - spending tens of thousands of crores (if not lakhs of crores) of public money on a completely new infrastructure platform that fills no meaningful niche is hardly an example of government 'working'.

There are plenty of low-cost and high-cost projects that the money could be used for.

- concretising major stretches of highway between important satellite towns - approx cost Rs 5 crore / km (20 m of HSR track)
- building low cost airport terminals - cost Rs 1,000 crores (10 km of HSR track)
- replacing older coaches - cost 3 crores a coach (30 m of HSR track)
- better rail safety (between 2009-10 and 2014-15, there were a total of 803 accidents in killing 620 people and injuring 1855 people. 47% of these accidents were due to derailments)
- better station amenities - retiring rooms, safety

These are things the vast majority of rail travellers will use and benefit from - and most can be done at a fraction of the cost of HSR rail. Outside transportation there are a million better ways to use money I can think of. The university in India where I did my first degree was a government university - there was just one photocopier and it created a million headaches. Money can be used to improve infra of universities, hospitals, police thanas, etc.

But no, we need HSR to fill some ego gap that exists in our head, some recognition need that craves satisfaction -no matter how unscientific. The irony is that most of those cheering for such wasteful expenditure will cheerfully prefer a flight over the HSR train if cost is within 10-15%.

Will reply in detail tomorrow, for now please check Chinese HSR it runs fright in shift due to nature of HSR for a basic understanding.

 

[Tiger Genie]

Do you know the number of First Time Air travellers in India

It is in millions ; that is why our Annual Airline traffic is increasing by
20 Percent per annum when the per capita income is growing by 6 Percent

So is the case for A C travel in railways

This is known as upward mobility

Similarly in India the DOMESTIC TOURISM is also in millions

Lakhs of Indians go abroad on Vacations

Dubai ; Bangkok ; USA ; Europe

All these people are the target customers

And the loan repayment period is 65 Years ;with 0.1 Percent Interest

It is as good as free

I hope you are right

 

[schoolboy]

Will reply in detail tomorrow, for now please check Chinese HSR it runs fright in shift due to nature of HSR for a basic understanding.

Sure. All I found for now was news of work-in-progress.

http://www.lloydsloadinglist.com/fr...h-speed-freight-trains/65289.htm#.WKtLeH3jggk

High speed trains and routes are absolutely unnecessary to achieve a much speedier transport of freight. Quicker handling of trains and some capacity expansion (probably only required for some junctions) are key. In India delays in rail freight is not because trains are slow but because wagons have to be cut-up, resorted, shunted, tracked, etc. Transporting a container between Delhi and Kolkata currently takes 2+ weeks. Given that Rajdhani does this in less than 20 hours - Clearly speed is not the limiting factor here.

 

[MULUBJA]

That's again is racism against rest of Indians without proper backing of data. Hopefully you will also correct your posts.

Saying fact is not racism. Even Congress govt. Had same plan of bullet train between A,bad and Mumbai only because of commercial reason and ability of traffic to afford the high ticket. When somebody say that Gujarat got bullet train because of modi, it is racism.

 

[HinduFacist]

That's the reason all existing non bjp governments that are sleeping will be wiped out of power!!
On the topic: I feel that it is such a waste of money...it could be better used to upgrade British era rail infrastructure.
I feel tier 2 cities should also get airports....which will boost air line industry!!

You think the Japanese will give us Billions of $ at 0.1% interest to upgrade british era rail infrastructure and no benefit to themselves ?

Its not our money or technology. Both are coming from Japan.

Of the remaining 19% cost, the Gujarat and Maharashtra state govt. will fund 25% each and provide land.

The railways will have to fund only the rest of the 50% which in real terms mean they will fund only 9% of the Bullet train but will continue to be its owner.

Its a beautiful Win Win Win situation with minimal down side.

Its not like the air line industry uses Aircraft's made in India .......... pretty much all Aircrafts are purchased from US or France. So is their support equipment and they fly to Dubai or Singapore for maintenance.

The Railways at least maintain their own trains and employ thousands.

 

[Radio Mirchi]

You think the Japanese will give us Billions of $ at 0.1% interest to upgrade british era rail infrastructure and no benefit to themselves ?

Its not our money or technology. Both are coming from Japan.

Of the remaining 19% cost, the Gujarat and Maharashtra state govt. will fund 25% each and provide land.

The railways will have to fund only the rest of the 50% which in real terms mean they will fund only 9% of the Bullet train but will continue to be its owner.

Its a beautiful Win Win Win situation with minimal down side.

Its not like the air line industry uses Aircraft's made in India .......... pretty much all Aircrafts are purchased from US or France. So is their support equipment and they fly to Dubai or Singapore for maintenance.

The Railways at least maintain their own trains and employ thousands.

Do you know what is the prevailing interest rate in Japan? Its less than 1% so Japan is not lending money for earning interest. They are doing it for strategic reasons as they are looking for new big partners against China. We are not getting this money in charity, we will have to pay it back in foreign currency plus whatever money Gujarat, Maharashtra and central government are chipping thats public money so ultimately the public in general is going to bear the entire cost and also enjoy the fruits if any.
Japan is lending money and not doing any joint venture so ownership will remain with India.
I have nothing personal against this project but I would not like to put my money into it. Also I will have least respect for the economist who will advise it as a viable project. However, if the motive behind this is to get into strategic relations with Japan then its a different matter.

 

[HinduFacist]

Do you know what is the prevailing interest rate in Japan? Its less than 1% so Japan is not lending money for earning interest. They are doing it for strategic reasons as they are looking for new big partners against China. We are not getting this money in charity, we will have to pay it back in foreign currency plus whatever money Gujarat, Maharashtra and central government are chipping thats public money so ultimately the public in general is going to bear the entire cost and also enjoy the fruits if any.
Japan is lending money and not doing any joint venture so ownership will remain with India.
I have nothing personal against this project but I would not like to put my money into it. Also I will have least respect for the economist who will advise it as a viable project. However, if the motive behind this is to get into strategic relations with Japan then its a different matter.

No one has claimed "charity" so that is a Strawman argument.

How does it matter if the interest rate in Japan is less than 0.1% ? What matters is the interest rate in India and the cost of funding for us.

This has nothing to do with "strategic relationship". That too is a red herring.

This is purely a business venture and a commercial contract that will ensure Japanese funding and technology and Indian land, manpower and consumers to create a win win situation.

If you are convinced that foreign funds at low interest rate are so easy to get, why don't you get a few billion $ more ?

No one is asking you to put your money into the project. All partners in the project are willing partners and are happy to execute this project. So what is the problem ?

 

[Radio Mirchi]

No one has claimed "charity" so that is a Strawman argument.

How does it matter if the interest rate in Japan is less than 0.1% ? What matters is the interest rate in India and the cost of funding for us.

This has nothing to do with "strategic relationship". That too is a red herring.

This is purely a business venture and a commercial contract that will ensure Japanese funding and technology and Indian land, manpower and consumers to create a win win situation.

If you are convinced that foreign funds at low interest rate are so easy to get, why don't you get a few billion $ more ?

No one is asking you to put your money into the project. All partners in the project are willing partners and are happy to execute this project. So what is the problem ?

who are the partners? Railways under central govt i.e. BJP. Gujarat and Maharashtra also BJP governments. My problem is that I believe its fizulkharchi and our nation is still not ready for such huge fizulkharchi. We have still not completed 4 laning of many national highways for eg. NH 3 Bombay - Agra Road is still single lane and full of potholes between Indore and Agra.

 

[HinduFacist]

who are the partners? Railways under central govt i.e. BJP. Gujarat and Maharashtra also BJP governments. My problem is that I believe its fizulkharchi and our nation is still not ready for such huge fizulkharchi. We have still not completed 4 laning of many national highways for eg. NH 3 Bombay - Agra Road is still single lane and full of potholes between Indore and Agra.

I have already detailed the partnership in my earlier posts.

BTW the budget for this bullet train will come from the Railway budget.

How is this related to National highway and potholes ? Do they come under the Railway budget too ?

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

NEW DELHI: Drilling of the seven-km undersea route of the Mumbai-Ahmedabad rail corridor is underway to ascertain soil condition of India's first bullet train path.

Passengers will get the thrill of riding under the sea, a first in the country, near Thane at a maximum speed of 350 km per hour in the upcoming high speed train project connecting two major metropolis.

"Soil and rocks below the 70-metre-deep see are being tested as part of the geo-technical and geo-physical investigation undertaken for the entire project," said a senior Railway Ministry official, adding "the test will also cover the 21-km-long underground tunnel between Thane and Virar."

Barring the 21-km-long tunnel, most part of the 508-km- long corridor is proposed to be on the elevated track while there will be a stretch after Thane creek towards Virar which will go under the sea as per the detailed project report by JICA, the funding agency of the project.

Railways opted for an elevated corridor to avoid land acquisitions and the need to build underpasses.

The tunnel was necessitated to protect the thick vegetation in that area, said the official.

The geo-investigation is crucial for the project as it would ascertain the bearing capacity of the soil below 70 feet at the sea.

Estimated to cost about Rs 97,636 crore, 81 per cent of the funding for the project will come by way of a loan from Japan. The project cost includes possible cost escalation, interest during construction and import duties.

The survey is likely to be followed by the final location survey to mark the alignment and exact spots for the pillars on which trains will run at higher speed to reduce the travelling time between Mumbai and Ahmedabad drastically.

Currently it takes about seven hours to travel between the two cities and the bullet train aims to reduce it to about two hours.

Construction of the corridor is expected to start in 2018 and is estimated to be completed by 2023.

JICA agreed to fund 81 per cent of the total project cost through a 50-year loan at an interest rate of 0.1 per cent and a moratorium on repayments up to 15 years.

It was initially appearing that the project, and construction has already started.

BUT IT HAS NOT.

Right now, the drilling is being done only to ascertain the geo-physical structure for analysis.

Other things will also be done

But India will be a FIVE trillion economy by 2030

An economy of this size is expected to have at least ONE Bullet Train

JAPAN is giving perhaps the MOST generous loan package ever

I agree, Japan has given perhaps the most generous loan package ever!

You think the Japanese will give us Billions of $ at 0.1% interest to upgrade british era rail infrastructure and no benefit to themselves ?

Its not our money or technology. Both are coming from Japan.

Of the remaining 19% cost, the Gujarat and Maharashtra state govt. will fund 25% each and provide land.

The railways will have to fund only the rest of the 50% which in real terms mean they will fund only 9% of the Bullet train but will continue to be its owner.

Its a beautiful Win Win Win situation with minimal down side.

Its not like the air line industry uses Aircraft's made in India .......... pretty much all Aircrafts are purchased from US or France. So is their support equipment and they fly to Dubai or Singapore for maintenance.

The Railways at least maintain their own trains and employ thousands.

One must however also keep in mind, that without such handsome financing conditions, Japan would most certainly have lost out to China.

Chinese build HSR at 1/3 the cost of other builders.

 

[HinduFacist]

One must however also keep in mind, that without such handsome financing conditions, Japan would most certainly have lost out to China.

Chinese build HSR at 1/3 the cost of other builders.

Maybe , maybe not. I would always pick Japan quality over Chinese cost.

Chinese still have a chance. Lets see how it all pans out.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Maybe , maybe not. I would always pick Japan quality over Chinese cost.

Chinese still have a chance. Lets see how it all pans out.

Japanese quality is a stereotype, a well deserved one I would say.

But as far as HSR goes, Chinese quality doesn't seem to much less than Japanese.

Both China and Japan have had one large accident each.

 

[HinduFacist]

Japanese quality is a stereotype, a well deserved one I would say.

But as far as HSR goes, Chinese quality doesn't seem to much less than Japanese.

Both China and Japan have had one large accident each.

Difference is Japan has been operating for 20 years and china for 2 years. Now compare the number of large accident and tell me about the quality.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Difference is Japan has been operating for 20 years and china for 2 years. Now compare the number of large accident and tell me about the quality.

China has been operating for at least 12 years now. While, Japan has been operating for even longer.

Yes, you are right, that Japan has been operating for longer time.

BUT, China has been operating far longer length, and carrying more passengers. It's total track length is 10 times that of Japan.

So, if we measure number of passenger-km total systems have operated on, they would may be higher for China.

 

[HinduFacist]

China has been operating for at least 12 years now. While, Japan has been operating for even longer.

Yes, you are right, that Japan has been operating for longer time.

BUT, China has been operating far longer length, and carrying more passengers. It's total track length is 10 times that of Japan.

So, if we measure number of passenger-km total systems have operated on, they would may be higher for China.

That will depend on how much you trust the chinese state media to report the truth about bullet train accidents.

I don't. Do you ?