‘Women Must Uncover Faces’ - Saudi Arabia

[SpArK]

Actually in older times, men also used to cover their head in Christianity while attending holy mass in Church.. Even now the head of the churches cover their head while offering holy mass.. Women cover their head with scarfs or saree while coming to church but we men don't do it..

Daiii.. neee pinnem vannaaa????

 

[KingMamba]

Actually in older times, men also used to cover their head in Christianity while attending holy mass in Church.. Even now the head of the churches cover their head while offering holy mass.. Women cover their head with scarfs or saree while coming to church but we men don't do it..

Wrong,

Corintians 11:1-34

Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven. ...

now you wont see mech a 100 yards from you

Yeah he ran away but I am not here for him anyway he admits he hates Muslims how can I debate with him at all??

Note I quote Corinthians because it is this part of the bible that speaks of this particular issue and this book is widely accepted by most Christians.

 

[KingMamba]

I'm not talking bad of these old/new testament verses,,, but those who point fingers at islam conveniently ignore these:-

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Role of women:-
1Corinthians : 14:34: Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1Timothy: 2:11: Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.


Death to apostates:-
Deuteronomy:13:6: If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deuteronomy:17:2: If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and inquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
Leviticus:24:16: And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.




Death to homos :-

Leviticus:20:13 If a man(homosexual) also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Romans:1:26New Testament) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use(sex with opposite gender) into that which is against nature(became Lesbians):



Stoning:-

Deuteronomy:22:21: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the ***** in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you...22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel....22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die;

Yes, I know of those verses I have read the bible and have one in my home. However they are irrelevant for the topic and since people here were maligning woman who cover their hair in Islam I had to bring up those other verses.

 

[sur]

Actually in older times, men also used to cover their head in Christianity while attending holy mass in Church.. .....

Are you sure...!!! That's not what their scripture recommends:-

I Corinthians 11:4:Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonours his head.

yaar dont be so generous- be specific- Say indians on this forum foolishly believe only Islam asks for it-

Actually they know things very well .. they are just "Shar-Pasand" شرپسند & cannot help but spread "ShaR" شر They are not ignorant they pretend it.

 

[KingMamba]

I would like to apologize to Christians for saying you fools, however reading Mech's comments about Muslims through out this forum got me pissed. LOL

I will be back in an hour or so got to head out to work.

 

[vsdoc]

Actually no Vsdoc you are completely mistaken, which is shocking considering you say you are Parsi. The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) always asked for modesty and in the Quran it asks the same. The practice of covering the hair for woman emerged because of the family of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) adopted this practice after the conquest of Persia. In Persia woman covering their heads was also a mandate and seen as respectful in society so the family of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) adopted this practice (the woman). Now since everyone emulates the traditions of him and his family they copy that tradition as well. Now in the Quran the specific verse call for modesty but the word translated means head covering as well so it became common place for woman to cover their heads. Now the new apologist Muslims will read that verse in a different interpretation where they will say that in that specific verse it talks about modesty without specifically mentioning the head but most scholars will take that as false because of the above meaning I wrote earlier.

Also it was never a regional Arab edict, the faith was and is still described as for all of Humanity so why would Muslims still proselytize if it wasn't?? Secondly you do not know the history of the faith, look up Salman the Persian he was one of the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), the faith was always open to other races and in the final speech before the passing of our Prophet he made it clear when he said

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Remember, one day you will appear before ALLAH and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone."

Quite frankly doc I think you are a great poster from India but you should not comment on things out of your element.

Bro have you even READ through the EPIC threads on the burqa here?

Where I have been hugely active?

If you have not how can you accuse me?

My mom, my wife's mom, most Parsi ladies wear a mathubanu - head scarf.

Especially in the kitchen, definitely while praying.

I am talking about Burqa man.

Yes I have researched the relevant Surahs and the part about the jilbab etc etc.

Please just read those threads.

I do not have the energy for a repeat unless there is something new - and seeing the quality of the posts there, and the referencing, that is highly unlikely.

 

[Audio]

Bringing the Bible in is all fine and dandy, but the thing is, noone looks down at a woman or even thinks of punishing her if she doesnt wear something over her hair. Even the minister in church is probably happier to at least get attendance at mass and wont be shoving old practices down people's throats which would in effect make less people join in every sunday.

That's the difference, o, pious ones......

 

[Iggy]

Are you sure...!!! That's not what their scripture recommends:-

I Corinthians 11:4:Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonours his head.

Yea!! makes me wonder too.. You see I am an Orthodox Christian.. You can see our head uses a hood like cloth to cover his head while offering holy mass..

Daiii.. neee pinnem vannaaa????

Bore adikkunu aliya... Dey u still in hotmail id? cme online and ping me

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

the attire is compulsory for a nun. what if one wants to become one and also marry and still dont want to wear it.

there is NO choice.



what a silly comment from you.

You see a difference.. Becoming a nun requires certain training and sacrifice.. Its their choice....
But Muslims girls have less choice... They have to wear it, even normally and everywhere...
I have friends who wear it, just cos they force it in home...

 

[KingMamba]

Bringing the Bible in is all fine and dandy, but the thing is, noone looks down at a woman or even thinks of punishing her if she doesnt wear something over her hair. Even the minister in church is probably happier to at least get attendance at mass and wont be shoving old practices down people's throats which would in effect make less people join in every sunday.

That's the difference, o, pious ones......

That is not the point, people on this forum think only Muslims have this mandate and I have shown them they are wrong even Doc has conceded that all faiths have the same mandate and secondly I spoke of Western Muslim woman who protested against banning of hijab which proves not all Muslim woman are oppressed needing to be saved like our Indian posters on this forum would like the world to believe.

You see a difference.. Becoming a nun requires certain training and sacrifice.. Its their choice....
But Muslims girls have less choice... They have to wear it, even normally and everywhere...
I have friends who wear it, just cos they force it in home...

Case and point.

Yea!! makes me wonder too.. You see I am an Orthodox Christian.. You can see our head uses a hood like cloth to cover his head while offering holy mass..



Bore adikkunu aliya... Dey u still in hotmail id? cme online and ping me

It might be you guys have a different bible?? Which specific bible do you follow?

 

[KingMamba]

Bro have you even READ through the EPIC threads on the burqa here?

Where I have been hugely active?

If you have not how can you accuse me?

My mom, my wife's mom, most Parsi ladies wear a mathubanu - head scarf.

Especially in the kitchen, definitely while praying.

I am talking about Burqa man.

Yes I have researched the relevant Surahs and the part about the jilbab etc etc.

Please just read those threads.

I do not have the energy for a repeat unless there is something new - and seeing the quality of the posts there, and the referencing, that is highly unlikely.

I do not want to go through that thread I am talking about the covering of the head, people specifically brought that up so I responded as for the Burqa only Arab woman tend to wear that Pakistanis still wear the Shalwar Kameez it depends upon preference. If you are going to use KSA as an example of oppression to woman I am with you but it is not the faith that is holding them down but the politics. The Saudi royal family likes to regulate religion and are oppressive to both man and woman to which I have voiced my dislike for their monarchy on this forum repeatedly. To understand why Saudis do what they do you must first understand that all their "Muftis" are usually from the Wahhab family or are Wahabbis and the Wahhab family had a power sharing deal in place with the monarchy.

The Sauds get to be the monarchs and the Wahabb family gets to regulate the faith, in return they both back each other up in order to legitimize their power.

 

[neokautilya2]

That is not the point, people on this forum think only Muslims have this mandate and I have shown them they are wrong even Doc has conceded that all faiths have the same mandate and secondly I spoke of Western Muslim woman who protested against banning of hijab which proves not all Muslim woman are oppressed needing to be saved like our Indian posters on this forum would like the world to believe.



Case and point.



It might be you guys have a different bible?? Which specific bible do you follow?

dont wage a scripture war here

all scriptures have been documented by man and not god himself

practitioners of faith are the true representatives of their faith

which i am sorry to say muslims have failed miserably

leave it to girls , what they want to do...... why u ppl are so insecure about ur girls???

is it not the fear that they will marry ppl of other faith, ( as this is what all the muslims keep dreaming about girls from oder faith, marry a xyz religion girl n make her muslim)

get out f ur insecurities!!!

 

[Iggy]

That is not the point, people on this forum think only Muslims have this mandate and I have shown them they are wrong even Doc has conceded that all faiths have the same mandate and secondly I spoke of Western Muslim woman who protested against banning of hijab which proves not all Muslim woman are oppressed needing to be saved like our Indian posters on this forum would like the world to believe.

Mate, even it is mandatory according to bible, do you see any one forcefully asking women to wear headscarf in Christianity?? For me, I am not against headscarf or veil or even Hijab.. If some one choose to wear it, she has every right to.. But I do not agree with some one forcing a person to wear these kind of things. Dont think that I am talking about Islam but some times I feel that all these Abrahamic religions holy books are written by some male chauvinists..

It might be you guys have a different bible?? Which specific bible do you follow?

Its the same bible mate.. Though Orthodox and Catholics have some differences in the way of beliefs and practices, they have the same Bible..

 

[KingMamba]

Mate, even it is mandatory according to bible, do you see any one forcefully asking women to wear headscarf in Christianity?? For me, I am not against headscarf or veil or even Hijab.. If some one choose to wear it, she has every right to.. But I do not agree with some one forcing a person to wear these kind of things. Dont think that I am talking about Islam but some times I feel that all these Abrahamic religions holy books are written by some male chauvinists..




Its the same bible mate.. Though Orthodox and Catholics have some differences in the way of beliefs and practices, they have the same Bible..

Okay I did not know that, I guess it is the protestants only than who use different versions.

Yeah, I disagree with force as well and my father never forced my sisters to wear burqa or even a hijab. However the common misconception on this forum is that ALL Muslim woman are forced to do so and that is what I have a problem with.

dont wage a scripture war here

all scriptures have been documented by man and not god himself

practitioners of faith are the true representatives of their faith

which i am sorry to say muslims have failed miserably

leave it to girls , what they want to do...... why u ppl are so insecure about ur girls???

is it not the fear that they will marry ppl of other faith, ( as this is what all the muslims keep dreaming about girls from oder faith, marry a xyz religion girl n make her muslim)

get out f ur insecurities!!!

I read your first line and stopped reading, nobody is waging a scripture war here. The scriptures I put down were just to prove a point which it did and I never said any scripture is more superior or something, quote me if you think I did. Secondly the second guy who brought up different verses I told him it has nothing to do with the discussion and he stopped.

 

[KingMamba]

Oh yeah and @ Doc I have showed you that Islam was never for Arabs only so hopefully you will not peddle that line again in the future.