Women KIlling own babies now Pandemic in Europe and UK

[LeGenD]

It's okay, the west is so enlightened that they have laws protecting these women.
There are actual laws that say that if a woman kills her own child she should not be punished harshly.

Laws are meant to penalize criminals; not protect them. No wonder, WEST is in deep **** these days.

 

[Wickerman]

Abortion is also murder in a sense.

Point is that a child shouldn't be conceived without sense of responsibility.

Abortion is not murder. Most abortions are done early in the pregnancy when its just a foetus or a zygote or whatever they call it.

BTW children should be considered after careful planning yes. But sometimes it might also happen even if you wear protection etc.,

But anyway, awareness about safe sex is essential to prevent cases of teenage pregnancies or unwanted pregnancies etc.,

 

[LeGenD]

Abortion is not murder. Most abortions are done early in the pregnancy when its just a foetus or a zygote or whatever they call it.

You have a point.

At early stage, 'murder' may be inappropriate word to use. Though some would use the term 'involuntary manslaughter' unless rape is the factor. Conceiving life is not a joke.

At advanced stage, abortion can be regarded as murder.

 

[Cloakedvessel]

It's okay, the west is so enlightened that they have laws protecting these women.
There are actual laws that say that if a woman kills her own child she should not be punished harshly.

Which laws state explicitly that women should not be punished harshly if she kills her own child?

Please give a reference.

Topic starter is creating a false image by calling these type of killings 'endemic' in Europe, and giving only two examples. If you really want to use the word 'endemic' for the scale of infanticide, you should reserve that for countries like China and India.

Even in a highly moral country like Pakistan there a more baby killings than in the whole of immoral Europe in any given year, so I wouldn't brag too much about the downfall of the West...

Killings of newborn babies has been on the rise in Pakistan, corresponding to an increase in poverty across the country.[100] More than 1,000 infants, mostly girls, have been killed or abandoned to die in Pakistan in 2009 according a Pakistani charity organization. Infanticide of girls in Pakistan is attributed to a patriarchal society where women are less valued than men.[101]

The Edhi Foundation found 1,210 dead babies in 2010. Many more are abandoned and left at the doorsteps of mosques. As a result Edhi centers feature signs "Do not murder, lay them here.". Though female infanticide is punishable by life in prison, such crimes are rarely prosecuted.[100]

Infanticide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[darkinsky]

Which laws state explicitly that women should not be punished harshly if she kills her own child?

Please give a reference.

stop quoting from wikipedia

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Interesting development, a lot of women in western societies are beginning to look down on bearing and raising children they view it as a hindrance to their professional careers; the motherly nature and trait in some women has been reduced and the role of the woman is more professionally oriented (in case of educated women). As far as killing infants, there can be many reasons as to why this is flaring up across Europe especially including psychological reasons.

I see this happening in urban India as well.

 

[Cloakedvessel]

stop quoting from wikipedia

Are you calling Mr Edhi a liar?

If not, what's wrong with the references given on Wikipedia?

 

[Wickerman]

And this will have serious consequences. Women have very important role to play in any society and they should never loose their motherly natures. Feminism is to be blamed in this case.

I dont agree with that.

I believe a woman has her freedom to choose. A lot of women do want families. But it is also a woman's choice whether or not she wants to have kids and there is absolutely nothing wrong about it if she does not WANT to. Infact, if she does not want to, it is the right thing to do, considering that raising a child is no joke. And some women do want to be childfree. There are also couples who dont want children. Such people exist too.

Feminism is also not to be blamed. We need more feminism, to break through the so called gender roles. We need feminism especially in societies like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, India etc etc., Women need their social, political, educational, economic, professional and sexual freedoms.

 

[darkinsky]

Are you calling Mr Edhi a liar?

If not, what's wrong with the references given on Wikipedia?

pakistan is a poor country and people cant afford the children so they leave them at edhi centre not even kill them, whats wrong with the west when they are already welfare, their government has responsibility to take care of their citizen and an orphan..

how come suddenly the so called beacon of civilization has become a baby killer is beyond me..

also 13 year old women are not getting pregnant in pakistan do we

 

[sur]

You have a point.

At early stage, 'murder' may be inappropriate word to use. Though some would use the term 'involuntary manslaughter' unless rape is the factor. Conceiving life is not a joke.

At advanced stage, abortion can be regarded as murder.

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Ijtihad Case Study: Abortion - Abdal Hakim Murad - YouTube

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Here's the Hadees he referred to:-
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Totaling 120 days before the angel’s breathing the soul into the fetus:-

Sahih Muslim:33:6390:...every one of you is collected in the womb of his mother for the first 40 days, and then he becomes a clot for another 40 days, and then a piece of flesh for another 40 days. Then Allah sends an angel to breathe the soul into his body.

 

[Wickerman]

Sahih Muslim:33:6390:...every one of you is collected in the womb of his mother for the first 40 days, and then he becomes a clot for another 40 days, and then a piece of flesh for another 40 days. Then Allah sends an angel to breathe the soul into his body.

This is just religious man. It has no scientific basis.

 

[sur]

This is just religious man. It has no scientific basis.

There IS scientific basis & which is pretty close to what Prophet Muhammad said; 1400+ years ago:-

120 days ~~17 weeks. Earliest premature babies that lived were 21 week old...

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Islamic take on "when does life start" is that baby gets a soul around 120 days of conception ... Prophet said "every one of you is collected(~ organogenesis) in the womb of his mother for the first 40-50 days, and then he becomes like a clot for another 40 days, and then a piece of flesh for another 40 days. Then Allah sends an angel to breathe the soul into his body..."
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Earliest premature babies reported that survived & lived were all ~21 weeks 5-6 days days into pregnancy from LMP (~138 days from conception):-
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Preterm birth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Youngest Surviving Premature Baby Leaves Hospital | Fox News
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[Wickerman]

There IS scientific basis & which is pretty close to what Prophet Muhammad said; 1400+ years ago:-

120 days ~~17 weeks. Earliest premature babies that lived were 21 week old...

Yeah but those instances are very rare. Most abortions are done before 21 weeks.

And I wouldnt quote faux news for things like this. They are a conservative media and they support republican positions. Which is "pro-life". Meaning they are against abortion of babies conceived through rape and such. They are idiots to say the least.

BTW premature babies mostly dont live that long. It is an aberration in the birth cycle.

And I personally consider it a life, only if it is independent. That is, if the baby can survive without the mother (for instance in the case that it is born), then I consider it life and terminating that life as murder.

Otherwise, as long as a baby is in the womb and depends on the mother for food etc i.e. depends DIRECTLY on the mother, then I consider it the mother's choice.

 

[KingMamba]

I would say,its the chain effect of bad parenting.

I think it more the fear of parenting.

There IS scientific basis & which is pretty close to what Prophet Muhammad said; 1400+ years ago:-

120 days ~~17 weeks. Earliest premature babies that lived were 21 week old...

=
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Islamic take on "when does life start" is that baby gets a soul around 120 days of conception ... Prophet said "every one of you is collected(~ organogenesis) in the womb of his mother for the first 40-50 days, and then he becomes like a clot for another 40 days, and then a piece of flesh for another 40 days. Then Allah sends an angel to breathe the soul into his body..."
=
=
Earliest premature babies reported that survived & lived were all ~21 weeks 5-6 days days into pregnancy from LMP (~138 days from conception):-
=
=
Preterm birth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
=
Youngest Surviving Premature Baby Leaves Hospital | Fox News
=

Sur stop bringing religion into everything it steers the thread in the wrong direction.

 

[KingMamba]

Which laws state explicitly that women should not be punished harshly if she kills her own child?

Please give a reference.

Topic starter is creating a false image by calling these type of killings 'endemic' in Europe, and giving only two examples. If you really want to use the word 'endemic' for the scale of infanticide, you should reserve that for countries like China and India.

Even in a highly moral country like Pakistan there a more baby killings than in the whole of immoral Europe in any given year, so I wouldn't brag too much about the downfall of the West...

Agreed, it is still beyond me why infanticide is still so common place in the eastern world. I am willing to bet however the rates of abortion in the west is higher compared to the east and that plays a role. Eastern Women usually carry their children to term (hence huge populations in the east) and then usually the baby girls are killed (usually by the husbands for not being boys although you probably know all of this). That is why I am pro choice because if abortion was legalized the world over infanticide would virtually disappear and populations would also calm down at least that is my opinion.