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Wishlist: What systems/arms do you think Indian armed forces should go for?

Also a point to be noted that the there is a serious issue of pilot shortages and the level of training has to be improved too.

Whats the use if we buy all the equipments and dont have "proper" people to use it..

This is yesterday's news... A very good food for thought indeed.

Flt%2Bsafety.jpg

This sounds sacrily like a movie i watched-

Rang De Basanti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Meanwhile, Ajay Singh Rathod (R. Madhavan), a Flight Lieutenant in the Indian Air Force who is Sonia's fiancé, is killed when his flight crashes. The government proclaims that the crash was caused by pilot error and closes the investigation. Knowing that Rathod was an ace pilot, Sonia and her friends do not accept the official explanation. Instead, they claim that he sacrificed his life to save hundreds of other lives that would have been lost had he ejected from the aircraft and left the aircraft to crash into the populous city. They investigate and learn that the crash was due to a corrupt defence minister (Mohan Agashe), who had signed a contract exchanging cheap and illegal MiG-21 aircraft spare parts for a personal favour. To their surprise, they also learn that the key person who was responsible for organizing the deal was Karan's father, Rajnath Singhania (Anupam Kher).
 
We do have RnD but what we lack is proper funding and what we instead have is utter choas, contreversies and corruption.. not to talk about delays..

Our force is lacking squadron strength and chief was telling the obsolete percentages.. well the trials are over for MRCA and they say evaluation is also over since some time.. what are they waiting for now??? santa claus???

yes!!!!exactly mate thats what am talking about here ,if you not going provide proper funds then how can you expect at par products :undecided:
 
yes!!!!exactly mate thats what am talking about here ,if you not going provide proper funds then how can you expect at par products :undecided:

Any Idea How Much we spent and are currently spending for LCA??
 
Are u sure with all proper funding they are going to deliver products that are world class??

If yes just read this news

At Rs 17k cr, Tejas cost zooms 3000% - The Times of India

and they provided 500crores for 4th gen aircraft at that time and what about 1990-1993 economic meltdown and you dint mention about 1999 pokhran sanction on LCA project then what about IAF CHANGE IN PLANNING THEN STARTED DEMANDING MULTIROLE CAPABILITY FROM TEJAS ??? 17000CRORES for TEJAS,KAVERI ENGINE ,TEJAS MK2 and TEJAS NLCA,now do your maths and compare with FRENCH MIRAGE PROGRAME and SWEDISH ENTIRE GRIPEN PROJECT:pop:
 
and they provided 500crores for 4th gen aircraft at that time and what about 1990-1993 economic meltdown and you dint mention about 1999 pokhran sanction on LCA project then what about IAF CHANGE IN PLANNING THEN STARTED DEMANDING MULTIROLE CAPABILITY FROM TEJAS ??? 17000CRORES for TEJAS,KAVERI ENGINE ,TEJAS MK2 and TEJAS NLCA,now do your maths and compare with FRENCH MIRAGE PROGRAME and SWEDISH ENTIRE GRIPEN PROJECT:pop:

No need for comparison.

First of all understand money is not equal to technology ..

We started serious funding only recently. But the need of the hour is not "indeginious development" but defence prepardness with what all options we have..

Country cant wait for a few companies to deliver on time..

Both can go in parallel and the fruits of RnD can be enjoyed when its ready..

And comparing French to us.. well they are miles ahead.. and we are doing the catchup job..

Lets all build a proper fighter first.. then we will go for the swedeshi movement.
 
then you should give oppurtunity !!!like lets take the example of AKASH SAM isn't it one of the best in southeast asia buddy ,agree or disagree ?? now its churning money for DRDO with 6billion$ order ,now lets take the example of PINAKA MBRL AROUND 100 deployed ,aint this one of the best ?? HOW ABOUT NAG ATGM late but still very much advance with 400ATGM ordered as preproduction and a potential of 20000....
 
then you should give oppurtunity !!!like lets take the example of AKASH SAM isn't it one of the best in southeast asia buddy ,agree or disagree ?? now its churning money for DRDO with 6billion$ order ,now lets take the example of PINAKA MBRL AROUND 100 deployed ,aint this one of the best ?? HOW ABOUT NAG ATGM late but still very much advance with 400ATGM ordered as preproduction and a potential of 20000....

Ok lets put a pilot on top of akash and make it fly then...
 
too much of INDIGNATION, cut this crap now .stick to topic.
 
Dudes I thought this thread would be about the weapons not in service or planned that is new. Not just increased number of existing systems.

Not sure if this is what you wanted, but...

Fighters and helicopters:

SU 34 with EW equipment and in nuclear role:

1590575.jpg


As you can see the Russians already developed such a version which makes it comparable to F18 Growler and even offered the jammers to India on MKI:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/37431-su-30-mki-growler.html

However I would prefer Israeli techs in this field, maybe Rafaels Sky Shield:

http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/8/958.pdf

Imo IAF lacks dedicated EW capabilities, which are important for SEAD, preemptive, or nuclear strike missions. So a squad of Su 34 mixed with EW and nuclear capabilities would be a great addition.
One might ask why Su 34 and not just MKIs added with these jammers? Imo, for this role as well as the nuclear strike role, a side by side seating in more useful, besides that the Su 34 was specially developed for low level terrain following flights, has a lower RCS and more armor, which makes it more survivable.
The only other aircraft available (because I don't think the F18 Growler will be) for such roles would be the Rafale with SPECTRA EWS and even dedicated nuclear versions. SPECTRA has AESA antennas that can be cued on ground radars to jam them, which is one reason why it proved itself, to be very effective and survivable in strike roles. Further developments to use the AESA radar for offensive jamming and even a dedicated EW version are going on.


I also said before, that imo IN should get the Su 34 in the MP/ASW roles. Again one could ask why Su 34 and not MKIs and the answer would also be the same, because it is more specialised for these roles!
The maritime patrol role needs much range and long endurance, especially here the side by side seating and the big cockpit of the Su 34 offers clear advantages to the pilots. Moreover the Russian developed special techs and avionics for the anti submarine role, like a centerline pod with sonar buoys and a magnetic anomaly detector in the tail sting (Magnetic anomaly detector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) to detect subs and attack them even with torpedos:

Su-32FN_torpedo.jpg


So again, in these specialised roles the Su 34 makes sense for IN too, especially as an alternative in the MP/ASW role below the P8Is and armed with Brahmos against naval vessels. Not to mention that they offer a lot of commonality to MKIs anyway.


HAL is developing an own medium class helicopter to replace older IAF and IN helicopters, but with a normal design only:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/33411-7/p2130081.jpg

Russia (Mi X1, Ka 92), the US (Sikorsky X2) as well Europeans (EC X3) instead are focusing on helicopter with futuristic pusher rotor designs, that makes them way faster.
While the Mi X1 should be exactly in the same class as HALs helicopter, the Ka 92 should be a good design to be used in the heavy class (maybe comparable to the CH 47 Chinnok), especially if it would get a ramp and 2 pushers at each sides:

index2.jpg


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So after the missile, fighter, transport aircaft, co-development, why not an helicopter co-development too?


Armored vehicles, self propelled artillery, air defense:

IA needs big modernisations at armored vehicles, artillery and air defense and with the technologies available, it is possible to combine these all at once. The key here is modular payload configs!

As I pointed out here (http://www.defence.pk/forums/1224479-post7.html ), there seems to be a big difference of what Indian and western forces / companies sees as futuristic, but the BAE SEP, or Rheinmetall Boxer shows that modular design is the future!
One basic platform that can carry different kind of modules, to make it multi role capable. So instead of procuering for example 1 x Stryker IFV, 1 x Stryker MEDIVACs, 1 x Stryker tank destroyer, 1 x Stryker comand vehicle..., each for a single role only, you need only one platform that can change the modules, whenever it has to do a different mission.

Both are available in several forms, with several modules, even with the Skyranger / Skyshield anti aircraft gun that you mentioned before and the SEP is even planed to have the same modules for 6 x 6 and 8 x 8 wheeled, as well as tracked platforms:

SEPsaml.jpg


Such a modular capability would give IA the advantage, to replace most of the old vehicles (be it wheeled, or tracked) with the maximum commonality and for reduced maintenance costs, instead of an 1 on 1 replacement of types.

And talking of modules, the Germans developed not only these Skyranger / Skyshield gun modules as you showed in your videos, but also the AGM (Artillery Gun Module):

It is based on the PZH 2000 gun, but placed in a smaller and lighter
turret. Placed on a tracked IFV it will be the DONAR self propelled howitzer, it can also be placed on a wheeled truck and even be placed alone as an unmanned artillery gun that can be remote controlled from distance:

p114_1_09.png


list.bw.kmw.agm02.500.jpg


list.bw.kmw.agm01.500.jpg


http://www.kmweg.de/c.php?linktype=mediaimage&gruppe=10845&class=mc_id&typ=10459

So in summery, consider a modular vehicle platform to replace most of IA vehicles, that can also carry several different modules including Skyshield, or AGM, that can unload them at forwarded, or higher bases, that needs only a small crew to relaod and operate several different systems, instead of one crew for each system. Highly mobile and variable, networkcentric, with latest computer and comunication systems...
...that is how I would like to see a futuristic IA!


So all in all, buy specialised types, but team up with foreign partners for futuristic and big number replacements, to make Indian forces more capable, more independent, developments less delayed and the whole force structure more mobile, variable and cost-effective!
 
P.S.

Submarines:

I knwo what the A.K. Antony said about indigenous shipbuilding and it's good to see that have at least one field where we seems to build comparable arms and techs as other major powers. However, as many of you know I see PLANs sub fleet as the biggest threat for India and therefor we not not only more MPAs and surface vessels, but more subs too! IN clearly made wrong decisions in this field in the past and now suffers, that's why we shouldn't limit ourself here on indigenous developments too.
Imo developing the Arihant SSN with the nuclear propulsion and more over balisitic missiles with good ranges is a big aim and we shouldn't waste time with developing new SSK, or SSN designs alone.

Russia already developed the

The 2nd SSK deal gives us not only the opportunity to get more AIP subs, but imo also to find partners for further developments in this field. That's why I would like to see the procurement of German U214 subs as a stop gap, but we need more than just 6 x Scorpenes and 6 x U 214 to defend our coastlines. So combine that deal with a new SSK development with Germany and even try to get the French into it (Germany and France are close partners on many fields anyway). That would not only give us the opportunity to get even more advanced subs to replace the Kilo class, but also to join Germany and France as a partner to sell SSKs to export countries. Both belongs to the world leaders in this field and both are developing new types of subs too.

Some concepts that were shown at the Euronaval:

ee4d113c-f7fa-443d-a143-02ef3449a23e.Large.jpg


SMX-24 is a concept for a submarine that would be in service about 2020. Its size and capability fall between today's biggest diesel-electric boats and the smallest nukes: the 3450-ton boat would have an all fuel-cell propulsion system, would be capable of 20 kt submerged and could stay underwater for 30 days. The core vessel would have interchangeable modules for weapons or special forces equipment. The stub wings carry tip-mounted propulsors for high speeds - allowing the central pumpjet to be sized for cruise - and fighter-like pylons for fuel tanks - above the wings on the model - and weapons.


28786.jpg


SMX-25" light submarine
109 meters submarine, 2850 tons conceived to operate in short depth (100m max.), would have a speed of only 10 knts in depth but 38 knts at surface. Fitted out with some torpedoes but mainly anti-ship missiles, and unnamed helicopters. kind of a light stealth frigate / submarine mix.

We have not only the option to procure from foreign vendors, or to develop indigenously, but also the advantage to be a partner and we should focus way more on that!
 
Many many thanks Sancho.

I was thinking about posting SMX-22 and SMX-23. They might be offered for second line submarine.

But don't you think EF-18G will be better than Su-34 for EW??? Its true that Su-34 has lots of similarities with MKI.
 

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