What's new

Will you apologize to Muslims you killed?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Liontk -- make up your mind, Who are the real muslims? is it us or is it the taliban?? No, yoiu don't get to run from this, We cannolt both be muslims, don't you get that????????

So you want me to legitimize their faith yah, well I cannot align my faith which I hold dear to with some pseudo beliefs of some murderers and I know what you are trying to and nice try by the way but the muslim communitie has already condemned these folks long ago.
Here is a local leader at my congregation, read through this but I know you probably won't care as I clearly see your subtle agenda and once again try better next time

http://www.quranandwar.com/FATWA%20on%20Terrorism%20and%20Suicide%20Bombings.pdf Evidence for your inquiries look through though, interesting read so we Canadien muslims have made our stand!
 
.
I am not comparing the living standard of Muslims in USA with those in middle east. I am talking about their double standards and foreign policies. British/American/Canadian life should not be more holy than others. why they should be 100 times more important ?

I just replied with the reason in the my response but again here you go,

Becuase AMerican people(muslims or non muslims) they pay taxes, they Give Fair trials, NO special Treament for their Politicians and the american people don't vote for those that are corrupt, ALL these have a big Factor because of this More muslims in courrupt countries die.

LIke i said Dont compare the worth of american live with other european/middle eastern/Asian COuntries and England and Canada is a S!htiest of them when it comes to quality of life and their life's worth muslim or non muslim
 
.
I just replied with the reason in the my response but again here you go,

Becuase AMerican people(muslims or non muslims) they pay taxes, they Give Fair trials, NO special Treament for their Politicians and the american people don't vote for those that are corrupt, ALL these have a big Factor because of this More muslims in courrupt countries die.

LIke i said Dont compare the worth of american live with other european/middle eastern/Asian COuntries and England and Canada is a S!htiest of them when it comes to quality of life and their life's worth muslim or non muslim

What BS you are talking about?

American people pay taxes so their blood is more holy and their government got the license to spend these amount of taxes for illegal military adventure in different countries. For your kind information people outside america also pay taxes lol Please open your eyes and brain as there is so much out there outside USA.

I am sure you have been forgot how American Muslims got treated after 9/11 because of wrong acts of few individuals whom they had nothing to do. You are also forgetting that your dear USA claim to be the champion of human rights
 
.
I can't understand how some of us can put the United States & the Al-Qaeeda on the same pedestal & expect some kind of parity ? Should the Al-Qaeeda apologize - Indeed it should....will it - No ! But to equate its refusal or the manner in which in conducts itself whereby everyone from the innocent bystander to some uniform personnel is fair game as somehow granting parity to the US in acting the way it did with utter disregard for human life & with a definition of collateral damage that knows no bound is moronic at best......!

For 3000 dead Americans the Muslim World burned - If you want an apology you should've asked it from Bin Ladin before putting two in him or ask his next in command to do it in his stead. But if you're asserting that if Bin Ladin didn't apologize then neither should Obama or Bush before him for their policies that killed thousands of ours without any rhyme or reason, managed to radicalize the Muslim World even more & created an exponentially more negative image of the United States amongst the common Muslims more than ever, than I don't know whether they are the Presidents of the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave or just suave & cultured suit-wearing cold-blooded murderers.
 
.
I can't understand how some of us can put the United States & the Al-Qaeeda on the same pedestal & expect some kind of parity ? Should the Al-Qaeeda apologize - Indeed it should....will it - No ! But to equate its refusal or the manner in which in conducts itself whereby everyone from the innocent bystander to some uniform personnel is fair game as somehow granting parity to the US in acting the way it did with utter disregard for human life & with a definition of collateral damage that knows no bound is moronic at best......!

For 3000 dead Americans the Muslim World burned - If you want an apology you should've asked it from Bin Ladin before putting two in him or ask his next in command to do it in his stead. But if you're asserting that if Bin Ladin didn't apologize then neither should Obama or Bush before him for their policies that killed thousands of ours without any rhyme or reason, managed to radicalize the Muslim World even more & created an exponentially more negative image of the United States amongst the common Muslims more than ever, than I don't know whether they are the Presidents of the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave or just suave & cultured suit-wearing cold-blooded murderers.

First of all osama/al qaida were not the representative of any government or Muslims but they were/are non state actors. Why innocent Muslims in Pakistan/Iraq/afghanistan should pay the price of their wrong acts? Invasion on Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11 either

Secondly USA invaded Afghanistan to take revenge from osama but found him and killed him in Pakistan . These terrorist can hide in any country and can operate from anywhere but it don't give you an excuse to go and destroy all country
 
.
First of all osama/al qaida were not the representative of any government or Muslims but they were/are not state actors. Why innocent Muslims in Pakistan/Iraq/afghanistan should pay the price of their wrong acts? Invasion on Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11 either

Secondly USA invaded Afghanistan to take revenge from osama but found him and killed him in Pakistan . These terrorist can hide in any country and can operate from anywhere but it don't give you an excuse to go and destroy all country

During an appendicitis surgery, if you come across cancer, why shouldn't you treat the cancer as well. Taliban was a blot on humanity and was being tolerated by the rest of world as no one wanted to wrestle them in the mud. attacks in wtc, gave enough will for taking out terror capital of the world.
 
.
First of all osama/al qaida were not the representative of any government or Muslims but they were/are non state actors. Why innocent Muslims in Pakistan/Iraq/afghanistan should pay the price of their wrong acts? Invasion on Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11 either

Secondly USA invaded Afghanistan to take revenge from osama but found him and killed him in Pakistan . These terrorist can hide in any country and can operate from anywhere but it don't give you an excuse to go and destroy all country

Teiii mein kiii Farsii vich ehhh hii kiyaaa siiii ! :blink:

I'm confused about the same thing - US shouldn't apologize for their policy blunders that have killed thousands of Muslims, made hundreds of thousands of them injured, home-less or those who lost one of their loved ones & have managed to radicalized these areas even more, despite these being the policies of a sovereign country conducted by their legitimate representatives ! But we're supposed to treat their lack of remorse....forget apology....as being on the same level as Al-Qaeeda's lack of response - If the Saudi Government or the Pakistani Government rammed their respective jets into the World-Trade Center then I could understand the logic behind this parity but right now.....I don't know how can the actions of radicalized Non-State Actors have equality with the actions of State Institutions & Policies.
 
.
What BS you are talking about?

American people pay taxes so their blood is more holy and their government got the license to spend these amount of taxes for illegal military adventure in different countries. For your kind information people outside america also pay taxes lol Please open your eyes and brain as there is so much out there outside USA.

I am sure you have been forgot how American Muslims got treated after 9/11 because of wrong acts of few individuals whom they had nothing to do. You are also forgetting that your dear USA claim to be the champion of human rights

Dude like i said and stand behind it

and as far as the treament of american muslims goes yes It is very bad after 9/11 and Certian zionists have taken advantage of the afterfact and now they are protraying all the muslim in the world the same way how German non jews did to the jews in Germany and else where,

And treatment of muslim is no similar to that of Japanese american or African AMerican.

and I hoping obama Attack Iran that way when iran will reltaliate and hit ISrael, it would be the surely be nothing short of the haulocaust and the ZIONIST will GET what they deserve for demonizing all the Muslims as terrorists, when cleary 90% of them are not
 
.
We need to do a simple math here

Compare the number of innocent people got killed because of American invasion in Iraq/Afghanistan with number of innocent people killed in 9/11( these include Muslims as well ) Osama has been punished but Bush and co got away with all their war crimes

Why lives of american civilian should be more holy than Pakistani /iraqi or Afgani ? This woman asked valid questions. I would have asked the same

The simple math is that they have more and bigger guns and bombs than we do, which confers more holiness on them.
 
.
Hypocracy on display to full extent, by all the sides. Strictly speaking, everybody need to apologize to everybody, but none will do due to combination of arrogance, ego, "you deserved it" mentality etc etc... it only proves the world is truly "jungle raj" who has the power survives and exploits the week and when the week becomes stronger, he exploits somebody else forgetting what he went through. Seriously do not know when people will come to their senses and start co-operating with each other, hopefully it will not be too late by then.
 
.
Teiii mein kiii Farsii vich ehhh hii kiyaaa siiii ! :blink:

I'm confused about the same thing - US shouldn't apologize for their policy blunders that have killed thousands of Muslims, made hundreds of thousands of them injured, home-less or those who lost one of their loved ones & have managed to radicalized these areas even more, despite these being the policies of a sovereign country conducted by their legitimate representatives ! But we're supposed to treat their lack of remorse....forget apology....as being on the same level as Al-Qaeeda's lack of response - If the Saudi Government or the Pakistani Government rammed their respective jets into the World-Trade Center then I could understand the logic behind this parity but right now.....I don't know how can the actions of radicalized Non-State Actors have equality with the actions of State Institutions & Policies.

yea and i think OSAMA and alqaida killed people indiscriminately and they did not care how many Muslims are working in twin towers before destroying it. Invasion on Iraq is also based on lies and fabricated stories

Who really blew up the twin towers?
As the fifth anniversary of 9/11 nears, Christina Asquith finds academics querying the official version of events

Shards of glass and dust from the World Trade Centre towers sit on Professor Steven Jones's desk at Brigham Young University in Utah. Evidence, he says, of the biggest cover-up in history - one too evil for most to believe, but one he has staked his academic career on exposing.

The attacks of September 11, Jones asserts, were an "inside job", puppeteered by the neoconservatives in the White House to justify the occupation of oil-rich Arab countries, inflate military spending and expand Israel.

"We don't believe that 19 hijackers and a few others in a cave in Afghanistan pulled this off acting alone," says Jones. "We challenge this official conspiracy theory and, by God, we're going to get to the bottom of this."

While this sinister spin strikes most American academics as absurd, Jones, a physics professor, is not alone. He is a member of 9/11 Scholars for Truth, a recently formed group of around 75 US professors determined to prove 9/11 was a hoax. In essays and journals, they are using their association with prominent universities to give a scholarly stamp to conspiracy theories long believed in parts of Europe and the Arab world, and gaining ground among Americans due to frustration with the Iraq war and opposition to President Bush's heavily hyped "war on terror".

Their iconoclastic positions have drawn wrath from rightwing radio shows and caused upheaval on campuses, triggering letters to newspapers, phone calls from parents and TV cameras in lecture halls.

In the Midwest, 61 legislators signed a petition calling for the dismissal of a University of Wisconsin assistant professor, Kevin Barrett, after he joined the 9/11 Scholars for Truth. Citing academic freedom, the university provost defended Barrett, albeit reluctantly.

A Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll taken during the summer indicates that Americans are increasingly suspicious of the government's explanation of the events of 9/11: 36% said it was "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon, or took no action to stop them, "because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East".

For most of the world, the story of 9/11 begins at 8.45am on September 11 2001, when American Airlines flight 11 smashed into the North tower of the World Trade Centre. But, tumble down the rabbit hole with Jones, and the plotline begins a year earlier, in September 2000. A neoconservative group called Project for a New American Century, which included the defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, and the vice-president, Dick Cheney, brought out a report arguing for a global expansion of American military and economic supremacy, and for the US to transform itself into a "one-world superpower". The report warned that "the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalysing event - like a new Pearl Harbor".

Excuse for aggression

The group, in concert with about 20 others, orchestrated the attacks of 9/11 as an excuse for pre-emptive global aggression against Afghanistan, then Iraq and soon Iran, the academics say. And they insist that they have amassed a wealth of scientific data to prove it.

It is impossible, says Jones, for the towers to have collapsed from the collision of two aeroplanes, as jet fuel doesn't burn at temperatures hot enough to melt steel beams. The horizontal puffs of smoke - squibs - emitted during the collapse of the towers are indicative of controlled implosions on lower floors. The scholars have collected eyewitness accounts of flashes and loud explosions immediately before the fall.

The twin towers must, they say, have been brought down by explosives - hence the container of dust on Jones's desk, sent to him unsolicited by a woman living in lower Manhattan. He is using X-ray fluorescents to test it for explosive materials.

What's more, the nearby World Trade Centre 7 also collapsed later that afternoon. The building had not been hit by a plane, only damaged by fire. WTC 7 housed a clandestine CIA station, which the scholars believe was the command centre for the planning of 9/11.

"The planes were just a distraction," says Professor James Fetzer, 65, a recently retired philosopher of science at the University of Minnesota. "The evidence is so overwhelming, but most Americans don't have time to take a look at this."

But Jonathan Barnett, professor of fire protection engineering at the Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Massachusetts, calls such claims "bad science". Barnett was a member of the World Trade Centre Building Performance Study, one of the government groups that investigated the towers' collapse.

Reluctantly, he has familiarised himself with the scholars' claims - many of them have emailed him. Yes, it is unusual for a steel structure to collapse from fire, Barnett agrees. However, his group and others argue that the planes' impact weakened the structures and stripped off the fireproofing materials. That caused the top floors of both towers to collapse on to the floors below. "A big chunk of building falling down made the next floor fall down, and then they all came down like a deck of cards," Barnett says.

The collapse of WTC 7 was also unusual, he admits. However, firefighters do not usually let a fire rage unabated for seven hours as they did on the morning of September 11, because they had prioritised the rescue of victims. "The fact that you don't have evidence to support your theory doesn't mean that the other theory is true," Barnett says. "They just made it up out of the blue."

Since the attacks, the US government has issued three reports into the events of the day, all of which involved hundreds of professors, scientists and government officials. The 9/11 Commission, a bipartisan group, issued a 500-page, moment-by-moment investigation into the hijackers' movements, concluding that they were connected to Osama bin Laden. The National Institute of Standards and Technology, a government agency, filed 10,000 pages of reports examining the towers' collapse. And the Federal Emergency Management Agency weighed in, examining the response to the attacks.

"To plant bombs in three buildings with enough bomb materials and wiring? It's too huge a project and would require far too many people to keep it a secret afterwards," says Christopher Pyle, professor of constitutional law at Mt Holyoke College. "After every major crisis, like the assassinations of JFK or Martin Luther King, we've had conspiracy theorists who come up with plausible scenarios for gullible people. It's a waste of time."

But Barrett says the experts have been fooled by an "act of psychological conversion" not unlike the tactics CIA interrogators use on their victims. "People will disregard evidence if it causes their faith to be shattered," he says. "I think we were all shocked. And then, when the voice of authority told us what happened, we just believed it."

Misleading the public

History has revealed that governments have a tradition of misleading the public into going to war, says Barrett, and the next generation of Americans will realise the truth. "Europe and Canada are way ahead of us on this."

The 9/11 scholars go to great lengths to portray themselves as rational thinkers, who have been slowly won over by a careful, academic analysis of the facts of the day.

However, a study of the full extent of their claims is a journey into the increasingly absurd: Flight 93 did not crash in Pennsylvania but landed safely in Cleveland; desperate phone calls received by relatives on the ground from passengers were actually computer-generated voices from a laboratory in California. The Pentagon was not hit by American Airlines Flight 77, but by a smaller, remote-controlled A-3 Sky Warrior, which shot a missile into the building before crashing into it.

Many of the 9/11 scholars have a history of defending conspiracy theories, including that the CIA plotted both the Lockerbie bombing and the plane crash of John F Kennedy Jr and his wife, and that "global secret societies" control the world.

Professor Robert Goldberg, of the University of Utah, wrote a book on conspiracy theories, Enemies Within: the Culture of Conspiracy in Modern America. He recounts a history of religious and political leaders using conspiracy theories for personal and political gain. The common enemy is usually Jews, big government or corporations. The public laps it up, either because these theories are more exciting than the truth, or out of emotional need.

"What the conspiracy theorists do is present their case with facts and figures: they have dates, meeting places and always name names," he says. "The case is always presented in a prosecutorial way, or the way an adventure writer presents a novel. It's a breathless account. They are willing to say hearsay is a fact, and rumour is true, and accidents are never what they seem.

"One of the stories is that a missile hit the Pentagon, and all the data is there. But what is missing is: what actually happened to the plane and the people on it? Conspiracy theorists avoid discussion of those facts that don't fit."

Perhaps it is no coincidence that the public's willingness to believe conspiracy theories parallels their dissatisfaction with the Bush administration. In recent years, the American public has felt misled over false claims that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and that Saddam Hussein was connected to 9/11.

Many fear infringements on their civil liberties now the National Security Agency has gained access to phone billing records from telecommunications companies, the Bush administration has engaged in wiretapping without court warrants and there are thousands of cases of indefinite detentions of American and foreign citizens without trial. Those who criticise the Bush administration's "war on terror" are accused of being unpatriotic.

By taking their criticisms to such extremes, though, the scholars risk caricaturing the opposition. None the less, they are pushing on, and imploring Congress to reopen the investigation.

"We're academics and we're rational, and we really believe Congress or someone should investigate this," says David Gabbard, an East Carolina education professor and 9/11 scholar. "But there are a lot of crazies out there who purport that UFOs were involved. We don't want to be lumped in with those folks."

Who really blew up the twin towers? | Education | The Guardian
 
.
@Raja.Pakistani - I won't go into the who blew up the WT Center thing but my point simply was - When the question is raised 'will you apologize to the Muslims you killed (through your policies) ?', I can't understand how do some of us raise a counter-question 'well Muslims are killing Muslims too' & 'Muslims didn't apologize for WTC either' - How does one maintain a parity between the actions of Non-State Actors & the actions of legitimate institutions of a sovereign state & the policies that it followed ?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
During an appendicitis surgery, if you come across cancer, why shouldn't you treat the cancer as well. Taliban was a blot on humanity and was being tolerated by the rest of world as no one wanted to wrestle them in the mud. attacks in wtc, gave enough will for taking out terror capital of the world.

Talibans and alqaida are two different groups. Talibans may have been oppressive rulers in Afghanistan but they were not involved in terrorist activities at international level unlike alqaida . Talibans refused to hand over Osama to USA because of these tribal traditions of hospitality where you guard your guests even if they are criminals but again talibans were not the democratic ruler of Afghanistan and they established their rule in Afghanistan by forced and fearing others
 
. .
@Raja.Pakistani, do you believe in those WTC conspiracy theories?
And Iraq has nothing to do with WTC, nobody has ever claimed it has to do with bin laden. Its plain old power politics. It has nothing to do with religion. Why would Obama say sorry to 'muslims' as such, what has a bosnian or indonesian muslim got to do with iraq.

Afganistan was in response to WTC and yet again, one country went to war with another based on what leaders deemed fit.
Its equivalent to pakistan going to war with india in 1965 or India going to war with pakistan in 1971. No need to apologize to hindus for that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom