Will Washington Risk WW3 to Block an Emerging EU-Russia Superstate

[Oldman1]

There are enormous fault lines. Fault lines we have not seen before. During the Cold War the Democrats and Republicans were united. Today, they are at each others throats. One half considers Russia the traditional enemy. The other significant portion believes that Russia is a friend. Not witnessed before in US politics. The Americans are not winners when divided.

LOL! Democrats and Republicans are not united, not even during the Cold War. If they were, they wouldn't be campaigning against each other for seats in the government. And they will always be at each others throats. And on policies like Russia you will have different views whether against or favor.

 

[maximuswarrior]

LOL! Democrats and Republicans are not united, not even during the Cold War. If they were, they wouldn't be campaigning against each other for seats in the government. And they will always be at each others throats. And on policies like Russia you will have different views whether against or favor.

Campaigning for seats is something very different to identifying a common foe. Let's not kid ourselves. The Americans are divided like never before.

What I think of Russia is frankly irrelevant. What I do know about Russia is that it is a resurgent power. Clearly the Americans underestimated Russia's ability to bounce back.

 

[Muhammed45]

Almost all former Warsaw Pact countries and some former Soviets joined NATO as soon as they could and You and I know the reason for it.

Yes mate i know the reason,

You have learned to be afraid of Russians from your childhood because of the planned Russo phobia!!!!

Crimea, Georgia, Chechnya

Crimeans joined Russia with pleasure!!! After a UN-supported referendum.
Georgia was playing NATO's plan against Russia and were taught a lesson forever!

 

[Oldman1]

Campaigning for seats is something very different to identifying a common foe. Let's not kid ourselves. The Americans are divided like never before.

What I think of Russia is frankly irrelevant. What I do know about Russia is that it is a resurgent power. Clearly the Americans underestimated Russia's ability to bounce back.

HAHA so untrue! You got politicians each others throats even with so called common foe. Even during Korean war, Vietnam War, or even the successful Gulf War. Or Iraq War. Same in Afghanistan in response to 9/11 attacks.

 

[Oldman1]

Crimeans joined Russia with pleasure!!! After a UN-supported referendum.
Georgia was playing NATO's plan against Russia and were taught a lesson forever!

If it was with pleasure, you wouldn't need to send Russian troops in to make Crimea joined Russia with ease.

 

[vostok]

True but i read first they resisted and stopped NAZI war machine. Stalin was hiding in his bedroom, actually had accepted the loss but when he heard of NAZIs loss in Leningrad, he managed his army once again. EU owes to Leningrad people.
I maybe wrong, will be glad to have your guidance

There is an incredible number of fairy tales about Stalin. He was not hiding anywhere. He had not slept for several days after the invasion - he was working, because he was the Supreme Commander. When the Germans approached Moscow, he traveled to the front line and even fell under the raid of German bombers. He was absolutely fearless man - in his youth he was revolutionary fighter (that is, from the point of view of the authorities - a gangster). He made some brilliant victories during the Civil War.
Leningrad has withstood the most severe siege in modern history. But the inhabitants of other cities - Moscow, Stalingrad, Sevastopol and others were heroes, too.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

dudes . let's smile
russia NO LONGER able to perform such a longlasting world war . they only have nuclear arms . they suffer from small troops . obsolete weapons . and small funds . I believe US / EU could kill russia just by heavy economic sanctions on it (war NOT even needed)

They were pretty much already sanctioned from the end of WW2. That's why their people lived backwards lives for decades while Europe moved forwards. When the Soviet Union collapsed people fled over the border into the modern world. Economic sanctions will do nothing.

 

[Muhammed45]

There is an incredible number of fairy tales about Stalin. He was not hiding anywhere. He had not slept for several days after the invasion (that is, from the point of view of the authorities - a gangster)

Ok buddy, you know better

Leningrad has withstood the most severe siege in modern history. But the inhabitants of other cities - Moscow, Stalingrad, Sevastopol and others were heroes, too.

Of course, agree with you. The victory of WW2 against NAZIs belongs to Russian people, no one else

 

[vostok]

Of course, agree with you. The victory of WW2 against NAZIs belongs to Russian people, no one else

It's an exaggeration. Americans and British have contributed - by opening 2nd front in 1944, they have no doubt saved hundreds of thousands of Soviet lives. However, without a doubt, the victory in the most terrible war in history - is primarily Russian.

 

[Nevsky]

Almost all former Warsaw Pact countries and some former Soviets joined NATO as soon as they could and You and I know the reason for it.

They joined NATO bcs they were told, that if they want to join EU and get the economy benefits they first need to be part of the military pact, its simple as that.

 

[Muhammed45]

It's an exaggeration. Americans and British have contributed - by opening 2nd front in 1944, they have no doubt saved hundreds of thousands of Soviet lives. However, without a doubt, the victory in the most terrible war in history - is primarily Russian.

USA has occupied Germany and EU since the end of WW2. Russians fought NAZIs with hundreds of dead soldiers, Americans have their NUKEs deployed in Germany and military bases all over the EU. They occupied EU ,I don't like that

 

[Penguin]

Yes. And Soviets was single-handedly rebuilding destroyed Central and Eastern Europe.
Stalin was genius. He defeated Nazism and turned Russia into a superpower.
Western Europe was given to the United States and Britain under a treaty between Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt. Russia received the Eastern Europe.

Nothing of the sort.

The U.S. and Great Britain wanted to secure the cooperation of the Soviet Union in defeating Germany. Stalin agreed, but at a price: the U.S. and Britain would accept Soviet domination of eastern Europe, support the Yugoslav Partisans, and agree to a westward shift of the border between Poland and the Soviet Union.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehran_Conference

Nonetheless:

All three leaders ratified previous agreements about the post-war occupation zones for Germany: three zones of occupation, one for each of the three principal Allies: The Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, and the United States. They also agreed to give France a zone of occupation, carved out of the U.S. and UK zones.

Also, the Big Three agreed that all original governments would be restored to the invaded countries (with the exception of France, whose government was regarded as collaborationist; Romania and Bulgaria, where the Soviets had already liquidated most of the governments; and Poland whose government-in-exile was also excluded by Stalin) and that all civilians would be repatriated.

The Declaration of Liberated Europe is a declaration that was created by Winston Churchill, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and Joseph Stalin during the Yalta Conference. It was a promise that allowed the people of Europe "to create democratic institutions of their own choice". The declaration pledged, "the earliest possible establishment through free elections governments responsive to the will of the people." This is similar to the statements of the Atlantic Charter, which says, "the right of all people to choose the form of government under which they will live." Stalin broke the pledge by encouraging Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, and many more countries to construct a Communist government, instead of letting the people construct their own. The countries later became known as Stalin's Satellite Nations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_Conference

So, while 'spheres of influence' were agreed upon, it was not the case that the three leader agreed to carve up and enslave Europe. That Stalin subsequently acted differently does not negate this.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

It's an exaggeration. Americans and British have contributed - by opening 2nd front in 1944, they have no doubt saved hundreds of thousands of Soviet lives. However, without a doubt, the victory in the most terrible war in history - is primarily Russian.

Considering Berlin is 5600km from our border and it is only 1000km from yours we almost beat you to it.

 

[Penguin]

They joined NATO bcs they were told, that if they want to join EU and get the economy benefits they first need to be part of the military pact, its simple as that.

Says you. And the Russian Federation joined the Partnership for Peace also because they too were told?

NATO
The first post-Cold War expansion of NATO came with German reunification on 3 October 1990. To secure Soviet approval of a united Germany remaining in NATO, it was agreed that foreign troops and nuclear weapons would not be stationed in the east.

There are diverging views on whether negotiators gave commitments regarding further NATO expansion east.

• Jack Matlock, American ambassador to the Soviet Union during its final years, said that the West gave a "clear commitment" not to expand, and declassified documents indicate that Soviet negotiators were given the impression that NATO membership was off the table for countries such as Czechoslovakia, Hungary, or Poland.
• Hans-Dietrich Genscher, the West German foreign minister at that time, said in a conversation with Eduard Shevardnadze that "[f]or us, however, one thing is certain: NATO will not expand to the east."
  
• In 1996, Gorbachev wrote in his Memoirs, that "during the negotiations on the unification of Germany they gave assurances that NATO would not extend its zone of operation to the east," and repeated this view in an interview in 2008.
  
• According to Robert Zoellick, a State Department official involved in the Two Plus Four negotiating process, this appears to be a misperception, and no formal commitment regarding enlargement was made

Between 1994 and 1997, wider forums for regional cooperation between NATO and its neighbors were set up, like the Partnership for Peace, the Mediterranean Dialogue initiative and the Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council. In 1998, the NATO-Russia Permanent Joint Council was established. On 8 July 1997, three former communist countries, Hungary, the Czech Republic, and Poland, were invited to join NATO, which each did in 1999. Membership went on expanding with the accession of seven more Central and Eastern European countries to NATO: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and Romania. They were first invited to start talks of membership during the 2002 Prague summit, and joined NATO on 29 March 2004, shortly before the 2004 Istanbul summit.

EU

In 1990, after the fall of the Eastern Bloc, the former East Germany became part of the Community as part of a reunified Germany. With further EU enlargement planned to include the former communist states of Central and Eastern Europe, as well as Cyprus and Malta, the Copenhagen criteria for candidate members to join the EU were agreed upon in June 1993. The criteria require that a state has the institutions to preserve democratic governance and human rights, has a functioning market economy, and accepts the obligations and intent of the EU. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_criteria

The European Union was formally established when the Maastricht Treaty came into force on 1 November 1993. The treaty also gave the name European Community to the EEC, even if it was referred as such before the treaty.
In 1995, Austria, Finland, and Sweden joined the EU. In 2004, the EU saw its biggest enlargement to date when Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia joined the Union.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Yes mate i know the reason,

You have learned to be afraid of Russians from your childhood because of the planned Russo phobia!!!!


Crimeans joined Russia with pleasure!!! After a UN-supported referendum.
Georgia was playing NATO's plan against Russia and were taught a lesson forever!

Russia attacked Sweden in 1700 and 1809.
Soviets attacked Finland in 1939.
I'd say we have all reasons to be wary.

UN supported ? Time to find the ignore button.

They joined NATO bcs they were told, that if they want to join EU and get the economy benefits they first need to be part of the military pact, its simple as that.

Yes, right. That is why Sweden and Finland are NATO members - NOT!
Another "ignore" of an ignorant.