Will take legal recourse if Narendra Modi government goes ahead with Rafale deal: Subramanian Swamy

[Bang Galore]

behind this decision of buying 36 of the shelf, could there be a possibility of heavy bribe? Just thinking out loud, French are famous for butter and cheese

Not even Modi's critics will be buying that. The man may have many faults but being corrupt is not one of them.

 

[mujhaidind]

No one will accuse Swamy of being on ISI payroll.

 

[Thorough Pro]

was that only his decision or did some one convince him? being a democratic government I don't think he would have taken the decision on his own, someone must have convinced him, someone getting impatient with the ever going negotiations, someone nearing retirement etc

Not even Modi's critics will be buying that. The man may have many faults but being corrupt is not one of them.

 

[Bang Galore]

was that only his decision or did some one convince him? being a democratic government I don't think he would have taken the decision on his own, someone must have convinced him, someone getting impatient with the ever going negotiations, someone nearing retirement etc

Nope, this was a political decision at the highest level on both sides, the CCS(cabinet committee on security) would have been the only ones in the loop. This is not a government that is scared to tell its top officials (including in the armed forces) to take a hike. This will be a very interesting deal to watch going forward. No one is really sure of the exact contours of the deal & what it is that the French have offered. Modi is not inclined to grand generous gestures without something in return, just see how he has left close friend Shinzo Abe hanging on the US-2 deal in the absence of the Japanese signing a nuclear deal with India or see that inspite of all the bonhomie shown with the U.S. & president Obama, deals on the Apache, Chinook & the Javelin have not been signed as yet. This is a pretty ruthless bargainer when looking after Indian interests, don't see why this should be an exception.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Good if that is the case. Here is my unbiased take on the decision, and I can be totally wrong

I look at it from two perspectives.
1- Tactical: meeting IAF requirements due to fast dwindling numbers. Good move but bad choice (will come to that later)
2- Business: Bargaining the make in India terms etc Total blunder

I say good move to bypass the ongoing negotiations to meet the requirements very quickly but wrong choice because going for off the shelf Rafael India has actually taken the bait, its now hooked French know it. Now they will be even more rigid in their negotiations and will make more money because even if India does not go for the remaining make in India numbers, they will need the infrastructure to maintain and run these 36 planes, and that will be costly to acquire and result in higher life time cost if India limits to just these 36, if they go for the whole bunch which would make sense and seem cheaper, India would loose out on negotiations.

India is already going for SU30MKI's had it not been better if India ordered 36 or more off the shelf Sukhoi's to meet the immediate need and put itself in a stronger bargaining position I think that move would have put a lot more pressure on the French then anything else.

Nope, this was a political decision at the highest level on both sides, the CCS(cabinet committee on security) would have been the only ones in the loop. This is not a government that is scared to tell its top officials (including in the armed forces) to take a hike. This will be a very interesting deal to watch going forward. No one is really sure of the exact contours of the deal & what it is that the French have offered. Modi is not inclined to grand generous gestures without something in return, just see how he has left close friend Shinzo Abe hanging on the US-2 deal in the absence of the Japanese signing a nuclear deal with India or see that inspite of all the bonhomie shown with the U.S. & president Obama, deals on the Apache, Chinook & the Javelin have not been signed as yet. This is a pretty ruthless bargainer when looking after Indian interests, don't see why this should be an exception.

 

[Bang Galore]

Good if that is the case. Here is my unbiased take on the decision, and I can be totally wrong

I look at it from two perspectives.
1- Tactical: meeting IAF requirements due to fast dwindling numbers. Good move but bad choice (will come to that later)
2- Business: Bargaining the make in India terms etc Total blunder

I say good move to bypass the ongoing negotiations to meet the requirements very quickly but wrong choice because going for off the shelf Rafael India has actually taken the bait, its now hooked French know it. Now they will be even more rigid in their negotiations and will make more money because even if India does not go for the remaining make in India numbers, they will need the infrastructure to maintain and run these 36 planes, and that will be costly to acquire and result in higher life time cost if India limits to just these 36, if they go for the whole bunch which would make sense and seem cheaper, India would loose out on negotiations.

India is already going for SU30MKI's had it not been better if India ordered 36 or more off the shelf Sukhoi's to meet the immediate need and put itself in a stronger bargaining position I think that move would have put a lot more pressure on the French then anything else.

If you can see it & I can see it, reasonable to assume that Modi & Co. see it. It's why I said we must wait to see how this pans out.

 

[kaykay]

Good if that is the case. Here is my unbiased take on the decision, and I can be totally wrong

I look at it from two perspectives.
1- Tactical: meeting IAF requirements due to fast dwindling numbers. Good move but bad choice (will come to that later)
2- Business: Bargaining the make in India terms etc Total blunder

I say good move to bypass the ongoing negotiations to meet the requirements very quickly but wrong choice because going for off the shelf Rafael India has actually taken the bait, its now hooked French know it. Now they will be even more rigid in their negotiations and will make more money because even if India does not go for the remaining make in India numbers, they will need the infrastructure to maintain and run these 36 planes, and that will be costly to acquire and result in higher life time cost if India limits to just these 36, if they go for the whole bunch which would make sense and seem cheaper, India would loose out on negotiations.

India is already going for SU30MKI's had it not been better if India ordered 36 or more off the shelf Sukhoi's to meet the immediate need and put itself in a stronger bargaining position I think that move would have put a lot more pressure on the French then anything else.

Appreciated your take. Though I would like to post my views on your posts.
1. As far as I know price and ToT negotiations have been already finalised and only issue remains from last 1 year is of liability of those 108 rafales to be manufactured in India. So considering this I can safely say that if any thing we can compromise or had to accept is liability of those rafales built in India. So there is no question of price hike and all but liability.
2. More Sukhois are always welcome and I believe that we can go for 40 more sukhois in future irrespective of Rafale deal but need of Rafale is undeniable fact with IAF perspective.
@Bang Galore

 

[Bang Galore]

1. As far as I know price and ToT negotiations have been already finalised and only issue remains from last 1 year is of liability of those 108 rafales to be manufactured in India. So considering this I can safely say that if any thing we can compromise or had to accept is liability of those rafales built in India. So there is no question of price hike and all but liability.

No agreement was achieved, it is quite possible that something was agreed to during this visit. Maybe the French were willing to offer better terms if 36 units were bought directly. Won't know for sure till some time passes. Remember that even an agreement for the 36 planes has not been signed as yet, the terms are still being ironed out. The larger deal is still up in the air regardless of who says what. Hopefully there has been some sort of understanding achieved but we will have to wait for it to be clearer. Safe to ignore all reporting on the subject for the next few days atleast since most people are either guessing or reading more into generic statements than they ought to.

 

[cerberus]

No agreement was achieved, it is quite possible that something was agreed to during this visit. Maybe the French were willing to offer better terms if 36 units were bought directly. Won't know for sure till some time passes. Remember that even an agreement for the 36 planes has not been signed as yet, the terms are still being ironed out. The larger deal is still up in the air regardless of who says what. Hopefully there has been some sort of understanding achieved but we will have to wait for it to be clearer. Safe to ignore all reporting on the subject for the next few days atleast since most people are either guessing or reading more into generic statements than they ought to.

Deal will be signed after announcement 36 are confirmed
That's why they announced in a separate deal by PM himself in his joint statement
rest all are formalities of procurement procedure that take some time
Taking all the factor into check.

Original deal of the Mmrca is still in negotiations maybe solved after this deal or terms will be change.

 

[Bang Galore]

Deal will be signed after announcement 36 are confirmed
That's why they announced in a separate deal by PM himself in his joint statement
rest all are formalities of procurement procedure that take some time
Taking all the factor into check.

Original deal of the Mmrca is still in negotiations maybe solved after this deal.

All we have are guesses, some educated & others not. We know that the government is likely to buy 36 planes, nothing more is known. Maybe PM Modi has an agreement with the French for the rest, maybe he doesn't. Maybe the MMRCA deal will take off, maybe it will be buried. There were fundamental problems on pricing & manufacturing that held up the deal before, we need more clarity on the issue before we can say something, one way or the other.

 

[uparyupari]

So far even the price of those 36 Rafale is not known. Which probably means the deal is not signed yet, only the intent is made public.

 

[Storm Force]

Both the 36 rafales and the follow on offer of 108 are being discussed now as we speak.

Terms will be agreed and signed before Modi and his ministers leave Paris.

144, rafales are coming now



But the 36 rafales will cost less and will sign direct fron France to speed things up..

 

[JaiShriAllahNath]

NEW DELHI:BJPleaderSubramanian Swamytoday threatened to take legal recourse if government went ahead with Rafale jet deal with France, saying there were shortcomings in the fighter aircraft.

Swamy, National Executive member of the party, requested Prime MinisterNarendra Modinot to go ahead with the Rafale deal, which was negotiated by the previousUPAgovernment, and said the performance of the French jet "turned out to be worst of all the aircraft" in Libya and Egypt.

Modi is currently in France and will hold comprehensive talks with the French leadership during which theRafale dealis likely to figure.

"There are two major issues with the Rafale Aircraft deal which would embarrass the BJP government. The first is that Rafale is less fuel efficient aircraft and lacking in essential performance characteristic that no country in the world has agreed to buy these aircraft," Swamy said in a statement.

"If the Prime Minister for some other 'compulsion' decides to go ahead with the deal, I will have no option but to approach the court in PIL to get it set aside," he said.

The statement further said that some countries have cancelled contract after signing an MoU with Dassault.

"It is a fact that Dassault will go bankrupt if no country buys the Rafale and we want to oblige the French goodwill, it is better to buy Dassault itself rather than their planes as it will be more beneficial," the leader added.

Rafale was selected by India from among five bidders in 2012 since it was the lowest bidder.

While initially, the deal was expected to be around $ 10 billion, it is now estimated to be over $ 20 billion.

Swamy is independent guy with own brain. Not a chaaplus(bootlicker) of Sonia Gandhi/SajjadLone type, like current PM.

Stupid Modi tried to insult him by offering him BIRCS Bank chairman post(so that Swamy leaves country and stop raising National Herald case, Sunanda Pushkar case, Eithad case, Aircel-Maxis case and Modi becomes free to hug more SajjadLone, Sonia Gandhi, Arun jaitley type thugs. Swamy gave Modi a nice hard slap in his face, by exposing this offer on twitter in public. Now next time, Modi won't even touch him. man, i love this guy! Salute to his guts and integrity, one man Army against corruption.

Since then modi andh-bhakts have gone mad and constantly abusing Swamy on twitter in desperation as they see him as threat to Modi. Initially, modi-bhakts tried to portray that Swamy is working under Modi against sonia, now that excuse has gone bust after Swamy exposed Modi in naked on twitter.

As far as Modi is concerned, he is a silly person with lot of jealousy towards more educated people in party. No wonder even Lekhi was kept out because she has big brain. If she is in Cabinet, Modi would feel embarrassed while debating issues in cabinet. That's the reason Smriti was selected because she is from mughalwood, an opportunist of showbiz industry(no qualification other than body). She knows how to keep mouth shut in front of a senior fool and do chaaplusi to get job done(that's how cinema industries work). Lekhi is from a profession where chaplusi don't work, only hard work does. Try giving an exam, Modi's IQ won't pass even 1st year of LLB. Swamy is also grown from hard-work and competence - professor in harvard.

Modi fears going in debate with that naxalite Kejriwal on TV because Kejriwal is damn well educated and very mean. Modi can't match any well education person in competition, that's his biggest weakness, that's why his KPMG corporate advisor team told him not to attend bhangi NDTV's debate where both were invited.

Right now, india is being run by opportunists. Modi's cabinet is full of bhangis and corrupt congressi advocates(Jaitley). (with corporate team sitting behind who manages speeches & PR)

 

[Nicky G]

Nah he won't, he knows better than anyone such a case would be thrown out. Arguing technical deficiency would be amateurish considering the experts that any court would employ.

 

[Su-11]

Subramaniyam Swamy is a perfect example of the crap news the pathetic cash strapped profit driven media is this country vomits out. The kind of faggot this Subramaniyam Swamy is, and despite that his incoherent and blatant bombastic lies and statements gets publicity. Where the fuuuck is this country heading!!!