will paf buy any new fighter plane

[CHACHA"G"]

Hello All
My take on this is quite different for some of you guys ,
First I have a big time I really mean a Big problem with PAF defensive doctrine,, In 21st century when your enemy have latest 1000+ Birds you just cant say we have 500 max and we will be defensive force . For me its a losing of a war before even it Starts ..
Dear all,
The number difference and the quality Gap in-between PAF and IAF growing every day , every year and every decade , Now we have to decide Do We Want Our PAF as OUR PN as compare to INDIA ,
Sir, Number and Tech Gap surely put extra pressure on MAN IN UNIFORM , and on MACHINES and this also effect all type of Operational capabilities "OFFENSIVE and DEFENSIVE"...like protecting our air , attacking enemy in battle fields , or performing Deep Strike Missions you name it all of them will be effected
Why , Because we don't have means to do them .
We have to Not Only Increase Our force PAF (more Birds ) but we also have to have diversified fleet of Birds so the Tech or Gen GAPE can also be managed, The number gape should and never been allowed to increase 2:3 ratio (PAF2,,IAF3)..
For achieving that goal we have to be self sufficient, self reliance is the only way for US,(Why because you all just witnessed the great Drama of USA for only 8birds )
Few options for self reliance and having some Birds in Air
1. JF17 is Blessing for us , If we don't use it for good then its us who failed , For me Jf17 program is very slow we have to fast track it , block 3 is dew in 2018 and that's still wont make JF17 a medium level Bird(if you consider all aspects ) , Please work as fast as you can put more funds in it (its better to put more funds in our own bird , for just buying 8 F16) bring block 4 out in 2020 Minimum Gripen NG level or even more Better , A REAL MEDIUM 4++ SINGLE ENGINE BIRD.
2. J10 , Yes J10 is the second bird that we most have , Why because of its new level Tech and Its Delta Wing Designee,, There are roomers that J10D is out talk with china bring that Bird with TOT( no strings attach made in Pakistan ) Do some necessary Upgrades and we will have J10D(P) second new build 4++ Heavy Lag single engine bird.

These Two new Gen Birds will allow us to have Numbers with Extremely good and new Tech ,which we badly need to counter IAF numbers and also these 2 can replace all of our older birds , I mean ALL OF THEM.

3. J31 will be a very good medium 5th Gen Bird at Max but it will be a very good bird to replace our F16 in future , J31 wont coming at least 2025 , We have to put some money in this program Have these Birds as TOT or JV and when they ready some where around 2025 to 2030 replace all F16 with them (have 120 minimum ) as USA is doing with F35,
4. We need a heavy 4.5++ double engine bird and also a heavy 5th Gen Bird , For 4.5++ we can talk with china or some other country and have a JV or we have to use our own drawing boards ASAP keep one thing in mind we minimum need 120 of these birds along side all other.
For heavy 5th Gen we can cooperate with Turkey and have a JV with them in there TFX program.
Thank you all for reading all of this .
I hope you all forgive any mistake and give your thoughts on this with out any day dreaming of having every bird or only having J31 and JF17 and also put 5th Gen Stealth JF17 in that too.

PAF 2030
JF17 Advance Blocks(gripen ng or higher) 150(minimum)
J10D(P) with few Blocks 150(minimum)
JF21 Double engine 4.5++ 150(minimum)
J31 to replace F16 120(minimum)
J20 heavy Stealth (if china sale) 40
TFX Heavy Stealth (coming soon) ???
________________________________________________
Total 610
JF17 Block 3 150
____________________________________________________
Grand Total 760

 

[Airdef95]

New procurements depend on situation. When it is necessary, we will have new aircraft. Don't you worry.

Sir, in the given situation when India has finalized the s-400 deal, and is working on more such projects to increase its military might..what would be your opinion??

 

[Silicon0000]

JF-17 block 2 & 3

Old F-16 with MLU

New F-16 block 52 & may be newer


then comes 5th Gen.


In future, dog fight will become a rarity and planes will be used as a platform for using different options like radars, jammers, missiles, energy weapons, drones and many many other technologies.

PAF should also need to focus on improving capabilities of current platform instead of adding newer and newer platform. It will be a cost effective option to acquire these technologies and integrating them on our own platforms instead of adding whole new platforms for these technologies.

 

[ebrahym]

so much for wishlists .......... but this is what is going to happen ...... jf-17 will come in three blocks .... i m not aware of any fourth one but at most we can make it 4.5 gen ..... PAF is going to induct them in heavy numbers and will weight 5th gen aircrafts and will select one of them ..... there is no possibility of su-35 and j-10 will always be a backup plan but not plan A .....as we already would have inducted them if we wanted to ...... and we are pursuing f-16 as long as we dont have to pay for them and comes in american aid ..... the time this aid ends our pursuit of f-16 will also end...

 

[Silicon0000]

JF-17 block 2 & 3

Old F-16 with MLU

New F-16 block 52 & may be newer


then comes 5th Gen.


In future, dog fight will become a rarity and planes will be used as a platform for using different options like radars, jammers, missiles, energy weapons, drones and many many other technologies.

PAF should also need to focus on improving capabilities of current platform instead of adding newer and newer platform. It will be a cost effective option to acquire these technologies and integrating them on our own platforms instead of adding whole new platforms for these technologies.

so much for wishlists .......... but this is what is going to happen ...... jf-17 will come in three blocks .... i m not aware of any fourth one but at most we can make it 4.5 gen ..... PAF is going to induct them in heavy numbers and will weight 5th gen aircrafts and will select one of them ..... there is no possibility of su-35 and j-10 will always be a backup plan but not plan A .....as we already would have inducted them if we wanted to ...... and we are pursuing f-16 as long as we dont have to pay for them and comes in american aid ..... the time this aid ends our pursuit of f-16 will also end...

Agreed with you dear.

so much for wishlists .......... but this is what is going to happen ...... jf-17 will come in three blocks .... i m not aware of any fourth one but at most we can make it 4.5 gen ..... PAF is going to induct them in heavy numbers and will weight 5th gen aircrafts and will select one of them ..... there is no possibility of su-35 and j-10 will always be a backup plan but not plan A .....as we already would have inducted them if we wanted to ...... and we are pursuing f-16 as long as we dont have to pay for them and comes in american aid ..... the time this aid ends our pursuit of f-16 will also end...

Spot on dear.

 

[Paksanity]

Sir, in the given situation when India has finalized the s-400 deal, and is working on more such projects to increase its military might..what would be your opinion??

Look at the situation from a cool calm mind. That is how PAF would be looking at it. Reality is neither S-400 nor Rafale deal have been signed. What India is trying to do is to draw you into an arms race. They want you to spend money on panic buys. Just as US did with Soviet Union which eventually crumbled from inside while trying to match NATO. One of the best example of panic buys is India herself. When we got 40 F-16s in 80s, IAF ended up buying some 200 MiG-29 and Mirage-2000s in sheer panic. We should not return the favour.

As things stand today, PAF is increasing its lethality faster than IAF. The gap which existed has been closing ever since arrival of Blk-52 F-16s. As of today IAF is in no shape to overwhelm PAF no matter what fan boys like to believe. PAF's response has been steady and economical growth in capabilities through intelligent buys while not throwing away precious funds for its long term strategic projects (5th generation fighter for example). PAF is wise enough not to be drawn in an acquisition race that it can not win. We will continue to see focus on more F-16s and improvements in JF-17s. There is no better option for Pakistan than F-16s. It comes cheaper than JF-17 (would you believe that?) and packs a knock out punch. Procuring F-16s saves us a lot of money which can be spend on other important projects of PAF. There is a reason why India goes up in fury on F-16s. Their reaction should tell you we are doing something right. They want you to spend money. Their remarks like 'you are beggars, F-16 is old technology, why F-16 when you claim JF-17 is just as good' etc etc, is solely aimed at luring you into an emotional trap and driving you away from the best option.

This is not to say we don't have gaps that need to be addressed. There are. But since they are not as sexy and 'bling bling' as Su-35s and EuroFighters, fan boys don't like to discuss them. I would like PAF to move in these areas.

1) Replace outdated radars who are eyeing the skies for intruders.

2) Install a multilayered integrated SAM umbrella of medium and short range missiles which is fully linked and integrated with PAF's own as well as army and navy's network.

3) Improve its capabilities of electronic war. To withstand an electronic onslaught and effectively jamm the aggression.

4) Improve transport and airlift capabilities to enable quick deployments and repositioning.

5) Build a robust network that links command and control with all fighting and support assets and can communicate with army and navy with ease. A small networked force is far more agile and lethal in response compared to larger fragmented one.

Meanwhile, continue on the same course till something changes in the equation. When it does, we should make intelligent choices to offset the advantage. Trying to match every Indian acquisition will be a blunder.

It is important to remember that PAF is just one component of national defence. It must work as a component in the larger machine, fully involved in achieving the combined goal i.e. defence of Pakistan. Diplomacy and economy are in much worst shape than PAF. They are in far more urgent need of overhaul than PAF. If we had diplomacy functioning right, US lawmakers would be singing songs for us today.

 

[Imran Khan]

nope PAF will stick with f-16 forever

 

[MKC]

In future, dog fight will become a rarity and planes will be used as a platform for using different options like radars, jammers, missiles, energy weapons, drones and many many other technologies.

India, China & Russia will operate 4.5th generation fighters like Rafale, Su-30, Su-35, Mig-29K till 2060...
If your projections are right then what is use of these fighters?
You are right but that is not going to happen in near future... Just think about UCAV, other than US none of the countries have a decent technology for basic UAV.

 

[araz]

The solution is:
A. Pay the money and get F16s whichis the easiest option.
B. Say bye to uncle Sam and put the money into JFT Programme delay it if necessary but bring the block 3 upto par with the bestinthe egion.
C. The J31. The problem bird. PAF wants it no doubt. The problem is it is not developed and PAF does not want to fork out billions of development costs. The numbers required are small so the investment may never pay off. PLAAF decided not to go for the JFT and PAF wants to see commitment from them before going for the platform.
The Turkish venture will only be picked if the Chinese fail to deliver on the J31.
A

 

[Paksanity]

The Turkish venture will only be picked if the Chinese fail to deliver on the J31.

I'm in favour of seriously evaluating participation TFX programme. Diversification is good.

 

[C130]

J-31 V2 with WS-13A Chinese domestic engine and full operation mode has just taxi

PAF shall go for this bird quickly to become the first South Asia country to operate 5th gen fighter

too many unknowns about J-31 and it's performance.

PAF would be better with JH-7B since it' more versatile.

 

[MastanKhan]

too many unknowns about J-31 and it's performance.

PAF would be better with JH-7B since it' more versatile.

Hi,

Most of my countrymen are clueless to what is needed---they want more for SHOW---not understanding the significance and importance of a ' utility ' vehicle. Every one wants a sports car.

In our current scenario---the JH7B suites our needs much much better and can play in many many roles.

But for that to happen---someone has to force it down the throats of the paf just like Musharraf did with the chinese awacs.

 

[Khafee]

but the take the aid with pride and shout so loud that no one can point finger at them. they remain biggest recipient of US and UK aid but they call it bribe or compensation .
but this is not the topic here. funds can be made available when national security is in question.
only realistic option is Chinese J10bs or their flanker clones.
SAAB Grippin was already turned down by PAF earlier and Typhoon didnt vow the PAF either.

Well that was then, now with Tranche 3b things might be different?

Is it operational?
Will PAF ask for customized J 31 ..............to tackle the threat posed by IAF.

No PAF won't ask for a customized one, because it has been involved in it from day one.

 

[C130]

Hi,

Most of my countrymen are clueless to what is needed---they want more for SHOW---not understanding the significance and importance of a ' utility ' vehicle. Every one wants a sports car.

In our current scenario---the JH7B suites our needs much much better and can play in many many roles.

But for that to happen---someone has to force it down the throats of the paf just like he did with the chinese awacs.

JH-7B got huge RANGE and huge PAYLOAD compared to JF-17 and J-31. much more utility.


no way are you sticking long range missiles and 1,000KG bombs on the J-31 like you could the JH-7B

 

[mingle]

Well that was then, now with Tranche 3b things might be different?


No PAF won't ask for a customized one, because it has been involved in it from day one.

Khafee i think PAF should go EF thrench 3 all GCC states switching to EF reason abnormal behaviour by yanks towards them we all know new New romance of yanks with iran .They giving PAF hard time for 8 jets time has come Pak should think about other option drop this request of 8 jets pain at short term will feel good in long run.