Will never be forgotten: 28th anniversary of longest siege in modern history

[Elvin]

Sarayevo once was almost 100% Serbian city, now there are almost no Serbs there. But I hope times will change. Serbs were not the only guilty in those Civil War, but they were pointed guilty by the West. Time will tell the true history, not the BBC-history.
With all respect to the dead of all the Yugoslavian nations.

I can't believe what lies are being spread by this guy. Sarajevo was founded in the 1400s and has always been the seat of Bosniaks for the entire region. There were Serbs living in the city but they were a minority as they were a minority in all of Bosnia. Wow I am applaud at the untrue words written here, it's like saying Vilinius or Riga or Tallinn is a majority Russian city .

I don want to point some facts out. Many Russians, Bulgarians, Greeks and others came to aid the serbs, they are still finding them in graves. The Bosnian army, even though outgunned and with an international arms embargo on it, achieved things you can't even image. The Serbs lost 24,000 people in the war, 20,000 were documented soldier deaths, they took what they managed to take in the first few months of the war, then the Bosniaks with their rifles, hand grenades and RPGs stopped them and the Yugoslav National Army which was the 4th biggest in Europe after France, UK and Germany.

The Bosnian Serbs, and yes there is a difference between them and the Serbians, Bosnian Serbs are Bosnians who follow the Serbian church, but they speak Bosnian and they have a different culture and mentality from Serbians. To sum it up, Belgrade used them as cannon fodder to create a greater Serbia that should have included Bosnia and parts of Croatia. That idea died, and it was destroyed.

Look up Arkan, a serbian warlord who killed women and children, read about his battles in western Bosnia where he lost 70% of his army in one week when he tried to fight the Bosnian army.

What about the siege of Sarajevo? The serbs had every advantage known to military strategy and they could not capture the city. The Bosnian army barely had any heavy weaponry.

Should I give the location of your dead Russians so you can visit their graves? o btw you'll need a visa to come into, Bosnia has visas for Russians.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Besides never did Turks claim to be the perfect muslims i have no clue why he is pulling that argument all of a sudde

Indeed.

 

[Elvin]

West has punished Serbs for they dare not to obey and dare to be independent nation in the middle of Europe. All the sides in that war did horrible things - this is civil war, and civil wars are famous for horrible crimes. You can take Red Russians against White Russians or Northern States against Southern States or Markus Antonius against Augustus - all sides in civil wars make crimes. All. But you will never hear about crimes of Croats and Bosniaks because Western media create some virtual reality - evil Serbs against peaceful Croats and Bosniaks. Things never go that way. May be only when 100 times more developed nations destroy some aboriginals. But Croats and Bosniaks were not aboriginals, and they were supported by West.

Yes of course they will be punished when the serbs tried to take lands that never belonged to Serbia. On the contrary, the Bosnian King Tvrtko conquered Serbia in the 1300s and became their king. It appears they still are mad about that. In addition to trying to take parts of Bosnia and Croatia, Serbia also tried to enthincally cleanse Albanians in Kosovo (95% Albanian).

Look at the stats, 80% of the war crimes conducted in the Bosnian war were done by Bosnian Serbs. THeir entire military and political top was indicted with war crimes by the ICTY, wonder why? Barely any Bosnian generals or politicians were indicted? You still think Europe is pro Muslim? come on be real.

The Bosnians even though the majority and had the largest army in the war but the least amount of weapons committed the least amount of crimes against humanity. Do some resesarch troll!

 

[xenon54 out]

I can't believe what lies are being spread by this guy. Sarajevo was founded in the 1400s and has always been the seat of Bosniaks for the entire region. There were Serbs living in the city but they were a minority as they were a minority in all of Bosnia. Wow I am applaud at the untrue words written here, it's like saying Vilinius or Riga or Tallinn is a majority Russian city .

I don want to point some facts out. Many Russians, Bulgarians, Greeks and others came to aid the serbs, they are still finding them in graves. The Bosnian army, even though outgunned and with an international arms embargo on it, achieved things you can't even image. The Serbs lost 24,000 people in the war, 20,000 were documented soldier deaths, they took what they managed to take in the first few months of the war, then the Bosniaks with their rifles, hand grenades and RPGs stopped them and the Yugoslav National Army which was the 4th biggest in Europe after France, UK and Germany.

The Bosnian Serbs, and yes there is a difference between them and the Serbians, Bosnian Serbs are Bosnians who follow the Serbian church, but they speak Bosnian and they have a different culture and mentality from Serbians. To sum it up, Belgrade used them as cannon fodder to create a greater Serbia that should have included Bosnia and parts of Croatia. That idea died, and it was destroyed.

Look up Arkan, a serbian warlord who killed women and children, read about his battles in western Bosnia where he lost 70% of his army in one week when he tried to fight the Bosnian army.

What about the siege of Sarajevo? The serbs had every advantage known to military strategy and they could not capture the city. The Bosnian army barely had any heavy weaponry.

Should I give the location of your dead Russians so you can visit their graves? o btw you'll need a visa to come into, Bosnia has visas for Russians.

I know many Bosnians personally and i gotta say in general the Bosnian people are one of the most honest, humble and pleasant people i have ever met.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

Serbians are like the Hindus of Europe.

Vile. Uncultured. Islamophobes.

 

[Elvin]

Bosnians are very nice, but we are tough in war. The Austrians gave Bosniaks a lot of respect in WW1, they even dedicated a March Song to the Bosniak infantry which is still played in Austria today. The Italians couldn't penetrate the Alps bc of Bosniaks and therefore kept Austria safe on the southern flank. This was high altitute warfare 100 years ago.

Some tributes to the Defenders of Sarajevo and Bosnia.

 

[dBSPL]

Serbians are like the Hindus of Europe.

Vile. Uncultured. Islamophobes.

Making definitions only over races would be a very primitive approach.

But on the other hand, as noted by Elvin above, the main factor that turned this into a systematic genocide was Serbs living in Bosnia. I do not know what the sources of motivation were, maybe our Bosnian brothers can enlighten us, but from my perspective there were similar example to this attempt (at least for the purposes of Serbs) at Bosnian muslim's Sanjak region as terrorism and exile activities . Today, although there is still Bosnians in this region, it was geographically shared between Serbia and Montenegro, so there is no possibility of physical connection with other Muslim Balkan nations.

 

[Elvin]

Making definitions only over races would be a very primitive approach.

But on the other hand, as noted by Elvin above, the main factor that turned this into a systematic genocide was Serbs living in Bosnia. I do not know what the sources of motivation were, maybe our Bosnian brothers can enlighten us, but from my perspective there were similar example to this attempt (at least for the purposes of Serbs) at Bosnian muslim's Sanjak region as terrorism and exile activities . Today, although there is still Bosnians in this region, it was geographically shared between Serbia and Montenegro, so there is no possibility of physical connection with other Muslim Balkan nations.

The motivation was simple. Yugoslavia was disintegrating in the early 1990s. Slovenia, Croatia and Macedonia declared their independence in 1991 and war started. The Yugoslav National Army was Serb dominated even though Serbs only made up 33% of the population of Yugoslavia. There they invaded Croatia and used the 500,000 Serbs living in Croatia as their motive to take large areas of Croatia and make it part of the "Greater Serbia" agenda. Subsequently, in 1992, Bosnia also declared independence through a democratic referendum in which 65% of the population voted in favor of independence. Belgrade then, started using Bosnian serbs through serb political parties and the church to mobilize them and have them veto the independence and boycott it. This led to tensions, the Yugoslav army was setting up positions and check points months before the shooting started, they defacto did not recognize Bosnian independence. Then the war started, and lasted for three and a half years. The Bosnian serbs supported by Belgrade and the Yugoslav national army wanted to take large areas of Bosnia and connect those with areas in Croatia and therefore create a "greater Serbia.". The Bosnian army fought and there were Bosnian serbs who fought alongside the Bosnian army and some Croats too (Bosnia was all about a multi-ethnic state for everyone) There were entire brigades of Bosnian Orthodox and Catholics fighting under the Bosnian flag because they saw themselves more Bosnian than Serbian or Croatian, however this was a minority. Bosnians lacked heavy weaponry and there was an international arms embargo on the country prohibiting the purchase of weapons. Iran and some Muslim countries did send aid, but it had to go through Croatia (or what was left of it at the time), however the Croatians would take most of it and send some to Bosnia, sometimes they would even take it and sell it to Bosnia LOL. Throughout the war the Serbs and Croats would work together against Bosnia so there were two fronts, at time the Croats would work with Bosnia, etc. it was a back and forth game.

Ultimately the Bosnian got their independence and they paid for it. Today the Serbs have a political entity within Bosnia, somewhat of a state. However, Bosnia is still a state and all foreign policy is done in Sarajevo but serbs have areas where they exert local authority.

The area of Sandzak is spread across modern day Serbia and Montenegro. However, those lands were part of the Bosnian Kingdom (up until the Ottoman era) and after the Ottomans it was part of the Bosnian Eyalet. However, the Ottomans made an agreement with Serbs in the 1800s to give that area to a future Serbian state, these resulted from negotiations the Ottomans had with Austro-Hungarians. Bosnia was given to the Austrians and Serbia became independent with the Sandzak lands (former Bosnian).

Kingdom:

Eyalet:

Sandzak today:

Today, majority of the people in the Sandzak areas are Bosniaks, however the area is divided into two countries and they lack political or demographic power to do anything. Maybe one day it will be part of Bosnia again who knows.

I want to be clear, Bosniaks and Serbs are neighbors and have been for 1,000 years, many are friends but the politics of Belgrade in 1990-1999 led to the biggest downfall of Serbs in the region. Belgrade used Serb minorities in other Yugoslav republics as reasons to invade and create a big Serbia, that failed because at the end of the day Serbia is a small country, it is not Russia. It didn't have the money, the manpower or the political weight to carry this plan out. The result is that Serbs in Croatia are discriminated today (are seen as traitors) many have left to live in Serbia and other areas of the world. Serbs in Bosnia do have an entity, however that entity is questionable because it was created through ethnic cleansing and Genocide in Srebrenica making it's legality questionable. There are even talks that in order for Bosnia to join the EU the serb republic in Bosnia will needs to reform (i.e. integrate more within Bosnia).

If Belgrade respected it's neighbors, many lives would have been saved on all sides, and Serbs in the region would be in a better position. I mean even Montenegro seperated from Serbia and they are basically the same people. This tells you a lot about Milosevic's legacy and even today Serbian politics are constantly talking about being the victim and have talks about trying to create a greater Serbia again LOL.

 

[dBSPL]

Very informative. Thanks bro. @Elvin

 

[nahtanbob]

Today is the anniversary of the Siege of Sarajevo in which over 50,000 were injured, over 11,000 murdered including 1,601 children between April 5th, 1992 and February 29, 1996.

Sarajevo is a footnote in grand scheme of things. In terms of violence of the various sieges in history Sarajevo was low on the totem pole. Bosnian Serbs are not worth mentioning as a military force or military power. I am not minimizing the loss of human lives here. In terms of violence and death toll Stalingrad and Leningrad during World War 2 were far more brutal.

Sarajevo is remarkable in the sense that a multi-ethnic state fell apart so quickly. I believe the Winter Olympics was held in Sarajevo less than a decade before the start of the civil war.

 

[Ansu fati]

Deluded serbians still have Kosovo as part of Serbia in their constitution even though Kosovo is over 97% albanian and other muslims(turks bosnians gorani etc) there is also US base called bondsteel which makes it even more harder for them to do some idiotic move
All of their neighbors are NATO members except for Bosnia
If they try something they will lose not only sandjak region but also medvedja bujanovac presevo and vojvodina which is an autonomous region ready to be taken by Hungary if there’s opportunity

 

[Elvin]

Sarajevo is a footnote in grand scheme of things. In terms of violence of the various sieges in history Sarajevo was low on the totem pole. Bosnian Serbs are not worth mentioning as a military force or military power. I am not minimizing the loss of human lives here. In terms of violence and death toll Stalingrad and Leningrad during World War 2 were far more brutal.

Sarajevo is remarkable in the sense that a multi-ethnic state fell apart so quickly. I believe the Winter Olympics was held in Sarajevo less than a decade before the start of the civil war.

Yes you're correct, however Sarajevo was the longest siege in modern history, on average 500 shells fell on the city per day and the Bosnian Serbs made daily attempts to cut the city in half or to take parts of it, but never could. The thing is, the city is in a valley and the enemy surrounded the city from the surrounding hills, it was like shooting fish in a bucket. Nonetheless, all offensive operations were pushed back. The 1984 winter Olympics were held in Sarajevo and the world fell in love with the city. Sadly, 8 years later the war started.

 

[Constantin84]

Let's not forget that all the bloodshed was the fault of Itzebegovic's lust for power and his withdrawal from previously agreed peace plans.The Bosnians should have blamed him.

 

[Elvin]

Let's not forget that all the bloodshed was the fault of Itzebegovic's lust for power and his withdrawal from previously agreed peace plans.The Bosnians should have blamed him.

Yes, all of the blame. Ha man the jokes are real here. Let's completely ignore Milosevic, Karadzic and Tudjman. O did I mention that Karadzic and Milosevic were convicted of war crimes and sent to the Hague ? Why not Izetbegovic if he was to be blamed for ALL THE BLOODSHED as you ignorantly claim.

Sure there were agreements, violations thereof by all sides. Bosnians didn't accept some, the Serbs didn't accept others. If you're fighting, you're not going to stop with a bad deal. The goal of Izetbegovic was to keep Bosnian borders, and int's international recognition. And, of course, a multi-ethnic component to the country and everything lesser than that was not acceptable.

 

[Constantin84]

Yes, all of the blame. Ha man the jokes are real here. Let's completely ignore Milosevic, Karadzic and Tudjman. O did I mention that Karadzic and Milosevic were convicted of war crimes and sent to the Hague ? Why not Izetbegovic if he was to be blamed for ALL THE BLOODSHED as you ignorantly claim.

Sure there were agreements, violations thereof by all sides. Bosnians didn't accept some, the Serbs didn't accept others. If you're fighting, you're not going to stop with a bad deal. The goal of Izetbegovic was to keep Bosnian borders, and int's international recognition. And, of course, a multi-ethnic component to the country and everything lesser than that was not acceptable.

There was a peace plan,he signed and than backtracked, afterwards all hell broke loose. That man started it all.1,/3 of BH was Serb and they didn't want to be part of it,there was a solution agreed by all but that power hungry monster went back on his word and war started.

Why should there be a multi ethnic country, a prison for Serbs ? Are they lesser people than Albanians, Croats, Slovenes,? They don't want to be in a union with you