Will ensure minorities treated as equal citizens in Naya Pakistan, vows PM Imran Khan

[padamchen]

The ruler of India is not restricted by religion. Every facet of our constitution was designed to not be detrimental to any particular religious group, including Muslims. Your claim of India being anti Muslim by design or intention is laughable. We have better relations with Muslim countries all over the world than Pakistan.

The population argument doesn't matter to Muslims who reside in India or those who fight in our armies. Population distribution is not controlled by individuals alone, they are controlled by history and geography. Islam as a major religion is relatively new in India. Hence the numbers. Nothing can be done about it in a single day.

As for the Muslims in India, I can't speak for them but I can try and put myself in their shoes and let me tell you, the argument "we're attacking you for the honor of our religion, even though we follow the same religion" employed by Pakistan fools no one, benefits no one and drives home the fact that our conflict with Pakistan has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

Syncretism in religion, especially those originating around the same region is a whole another can of worms. Maybe @padamchen is more qualified to talk about Abrahamic religions and their inclusivity than me.
But since when did respecting or appreciating other religions, customs or people be a bad thing?

Bro it is news to me that I am now considered an authority on Abrahamic religions.

I only touch upon them where they impact or get impacted by mine.

Or did you mean something else?

Cheers, Doc

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

The ruler of India is not restricted by religion.

Exactly, which is one of the reasons why we don't consider you a Muslim nation.

Every facet of our constitution was designed to not be detrimental to any particular religious group, including Muslims.

Doesn't matter, it clearly hasn't worked. Muslims get lynched for eating beef, have had numerous atrocities enacted upon them (Kashmir, Hyderabad, Gujarat, etc), have their Masjids demolished (Babri), places are getting name changes purely because they sound too Islamic, Muslim heroes (e.g Ghaznavi, Qasim, Alamgir) are always insulted and denigrated, Muslims are underrepresented in India's government, Muslims recently got banned from praying in parks, I can go on and on. You're not a Muslim utopia, there's a reason Pakistan came about.

We have better relations with Muslim countries all over the world than Pakistan.

No you don't. Even if you did, pretty much every so-called "Muslim" government (including Pakistan's) are a bunch of sellouts, and I don't really regard them as Muslim either.

who fight in our armies.

I'm going to put it bluntly, any Muslim who serves in the Indian army has left the fold of Islam.

our conflict with Pakistan has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

Hogwash, religion plays a big part. Our conflict is just an extension of the 1000 year history of Muslim-Hindu warfare.

But since when did respecting or appreciating other religions, customs or people be a bad thing?

Syncretism is kufr, you cannot mesh different religions together. That doesn't mean we insult other religions (unless ours in insulted first), but we are not supposed to take part in any of their rituals or celebrations.

 

[Corona]

I only touch upon them where they impact or get impacted by mine.

That's pretty much it. I was just trying to point out that religions tend to borrow from past and existing ones.

Exactly, which is one of the reasons why we don't consider you a Muslim nation.



Doesn't matter, it clearly hasn't worked. Muslims get lynched for eating beef, have had numerous atrocities enacted upon them (Kashmir, Hyderabad, Gujarat, etc), have their Masjids demolished (Babri), places are getting name changes purely because they sound too Islamic, Muslim heroes (e.g Ghaznavi, Qasim, Alamgir) are always insulted and denigrated, Muslims are underrepresented in India's government, Muslims recently got banned from praying in parks, I can go on and on. You're not a Muslim utopia, there's a reason Pakistan came about.



No you don't. Even if you did, pretty much every so-called "Muslim" government (including Pakistan's) are a bunch of sellouts, and I don't really regard them as Muslim either.



I'm going to put it bluntly, any Muslim who serves in the Indian army has left the fold of Islam.



Hogwash, religion plays a big part. Our conflict is just an extension of the 1000 year history of Muslim-Hindu warfare.



Syncretism is kufr, you cannot mesh different religions together. That doesn't mean we insult other religions (unless ours in insulted first), but we are not supposed to take part in any of their rituals or celebrations.

I could argue each of your replies individually but it seems to me I can sum up your grievances in one post.

You're not satisfied with the concept of countries or nations. By your definition, neither India nor Pakistan nor any country currently existing can claim to be an Islamic nation to your satisfaction. You referred to pretty much every leader of any country that has anything to do with this conversation as a sellout. I wonder if it includes the Quaid as well?

It seems that what you want is a utopia that is not and will not be possible on a planet as diverse as this. And to go along with it you want a human being that is as infallible as your utopia, something that man with all his sins will never achieve regardless of his religion.

Let me ask you this, do you consider yourself as a perfect individual? A perfect representation of your religion and beliefs? And can you give me one country that checks all the boxes in your definition of a perfect Islamic country?

 

[padamchen]

That's pretty much it. I was just trying to point out that religions tend to borrow from past and existing ones.


I could argue each of your replies individually but it seems to me I can sum up your grievances in one post.

You're not satisfied with the concept of countries or nations. By your definition, neither India nor Pakistan nor any country currently existing can claim to be an Islamic nation to your satisfaction. You referred to pretty much every leader of any country that has anything to do with this conversation as a sellout. I wonder if it includes the Quaid as well?

It seems that what you want is a utopia that is not and will not be possible on a planet as diverse as this. And to go along with it you want a human being that is as infallible as your utopia, something that man with all his sins will never achieve regardless of his religion.

Let me ask you this, do you consider yourself as a perfect individual? A perfect representation of your religion and beliefs? And can you give me one country that checks all the boxes in your definition of a perfect Islamic country?

Abrahamic faiths more than just borrowed from Zoroastrianism though.

They are Zoroastrianism of the Semitic people.

Colored by their ages and peoples and cultures.

Cheers, Doc

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

You're not satisfied with the concept of countries or nations.

I never said that. I'm just unsatisfied with the fact that certain countries remain divided/united over pretty silly reasons, especially among the Muslim world. For hundreds of years, we were one.

By your definition, neither India nor Pakistan nor any country currently existing can claim to be an Islamic nation to your satisfaction.

Correct, but there is a spectrum.

You referred to pretty much every leader of any country that has anything to do with this conversation as a sellout.

Most, but not all.

I wonder if it includes the Quaid as well?

No. There are other Muslim figures from the modern era that I respect too.

and will not be possible on a planet as diverse as this.

Yes it is, it has already occurred multiple times, e.g the Rashidun Khilafah.

you want a human being that is as infallible as your utopia

No I don't. I want someone to do the best he can, but nobody is even bothering to try.

do you consider yourself as a perfect individual?

No, nobody's perfect, but at least I try.