Wilders Acquitted by Dutch Court

[EjazR]

Or more murders like the one in the Netherlands?

We can swap stories about nutters that kill people till the cows come home Europe still has done a better job of welcoming imigrants than a lot of countries.

Wilders is an that plays on fear for cheep political point scoring every country has them the more attention you give them the happier they are.

If Galliano had said what he did in holand he would have gotten off as well diferent countries different laws.

So basically, a criminal immigrant and the Dutch court agrees on one and the same thing. Its ok to demonize and justify killing people you don't agree with.

And with all due respect, the murders are in no way comparable. On one hand you had a pregnant mother killed and stabbed to death INSIDE a courthouse when the lady did nothing to offend the German attacker. No demonisation of German culture, not hates peeches against Christians or white people. And still she was stabbed to death. Even being Pregnant was in no way enough for the hate filled mind to stop him.

On the other, Van Gogh had consistently preached hatred, demonised, dehumanised and legitimized fear mongering against Muslims.
I don't agree with what Boyeri did. There is no Islamic sanction of taking the law in your own hands. But neither do I have any respect for VanGogh who used to demean, dehumanise and justify hating of Muslims.

Just like I disagree and have no respect for anyone who dehumanizes Jews for example or Hindus. Hatespeech being legalized like this in Netherlands has no space in a modern society.

 

[silko]

Your kidding me right? Have you seen the depiction of Jews in muslim countries? They have some nerve to whine.

by that sentence i tried to point to the muslims living in europe, like me!

 

[silko]

Two things you need to understand silko.
1. Freedom of speech means you can say "F#ck the Jews and Muslims and Christians" in the street but you can`t say "I love Hitler" in a country that was literally raped by Germans and made it illegal to utter support or even the word "Nazi".
2.Islam is hated throughout Europe and the West because they`ve only seen the terrorist side of Islam and all they know is 9/11 and the London/Spanish/German attacks and so on.

Might be nice if some Muslims stood up and said "Hey, we can be nice, not all of us are psychopaths, wanna hug?". Understand silko?

freedom of speech draws a line when you go over it, it is called being a rasist!

that is exactly what this guy is doing, poor little idiot! he is desperate after votes! comparing the holy quran to mein kampf? is this guy on drugs or what.

i bet he hasnt read even one sentence of the quran or mein kampf, just desperate after getting some votes. have you seen his vision for the netherlands?

we are going to stand up and what? like someone cares, the media is just after those idiots that are radical and extremists, like some days ago some extremists demonstrated in norway the media was all over the place, but if for example i was to go out and tell the norwegian people about islam they wouldnt give a SH*T

 

[Solomon2]

John Burgess, formerly a U.S. diplomat to Saudi Arabia and several other Muslim countries, writes:

I find Wilders general, anti-Islamic thrust to be stupid, hateful, not founded on fact, and flawed at its base by the logical fallacy of confusing a whole with part of the whole. Because Wilders sees bad actors, acting in the name of Islam, he condemns all Muslims. That’s simply wrong. Wilders, though, has a right to be wrong. He also has a human right to express himself, no matter who may be bruised by his commentary. I object to the existence of ‘hate crime’ legislation no matter where it exists or in what form...Instead, I think people should grow thicker skins and realize that law is not a bunch of cotton batting surrounding each individual with protection against hurtful speech.

 

[saleen_s7]

John Burgess, formerly a U.S. diplomat to Saudi Arabia and several other Muslim countries, writes:

Agreed 100%. I think that is the beauty of free speech. Any invalid argument can be countered with a more valid argument. Having said that, even hitlers book Mein Keimph is banned in the country and I think holocaust deniers can be imprisoned. An old saying, if there is no freedom to offend, there is no freedom of speech. Most of the bans never work anyways.

 

[silko]

John Burgess, formerly a U.S. diplomat to Saudi Arabia and several other Muslim countries, writes:

well, i do agree with him here!

but what if for example an arab that just sees what israel has done and never what hamas does, and goes out and spreads hate towards israelis just because of that. will he be seen as someone who uses his freedom of speech or someone who is antisemitte and needs to go to jail, that is what i am trying to say here!

you can say all the crap you want against islam that is freedom of speech, but when you talk crap about other religions then it is racism!

this guy IS desperate, please give him a vote so he can shut up!

 

[PteX]

well, i do agree with him here!

but what if for example an arab that just sees what israel has done and never what hamas does, and goes out and spreads hate towards israelis just because of that. will he be seen as someone who uses his freedom of speech or someone who is antisemitte and needs to go to jail, that is what i am trying to say here!

you can say all the crap you want against islam that is freedom of speech, but when you talk crap about other religions then it is racism!

this guy IS desperate, please give him a vote so he can shut up!

If people give him enough votes he can become the Prime Minister and then influence rest of Europe with his ideas.
And you can`t go to jail for being Antisemitic but you can go to jail by supporting Nazism and denying the holocaust because those are actual laws that if broken land you in jail.

 

[a. hussain]

the guy's a bloody twit, him and his supporters......

and meanwhile, John Galliano -- a former designer for Christion Dior -- is on trial in the UK for anti-semitic remarks he made against Jews.


anti-semitic remarks and/or holocaust denial gets you imprisoned in many European countries......anti-Islamic rhetoric (even by politicians and higher ups) goes about unabated and unchecked.


absolute hypocrisy at its finest!!

Yes height of Hypocracy. Actually brother just analyse the world around you of all the unsettled issues/ conflicts faced by Islamic world which have either been raised/ still under with the so called 'United Nations Organization' are mainly involving MUSLIM Countries like Palestine, Kashmir, Chechniya, Sudan, Bosnia etc.
I believe we need to change the name of UNO to UAMNO 'United Anti-Muslim Nations Organization'. Simply put no Islamic countries territorial/ independence movements are supported even on humanitarian grounds. Just see how quickly US & Australia togetherwith UN acted when they went for East Timor (It just took 3 months). There are numerous examples but still all muslim countries are sleeping.

We can only pray that all muslim countries stand on their feet without any crutches (Financial Aid/ Loans/ ....)

Thanks

 

[EjazR]

John Burgess, formerly a U.S. diplomat to Saudi Arabia and several other Muslim countries, writes:

Solomon, that statement is not appropriate to the hate speech coming out of Wilders. His hate speech is nothing but incitement which will result in hate crimes as has ALREADY happened with murder of a pregnant scarf wearing working Muslim mother in Germany IN COURT.

Would you agree with the same statement if Wilders had been preaching blood libel against jews or talking about their world domination and other such propaganda that would create hatred against jews? Is that protected under freedom of speech. Ro similar hate speech against homosexuals or say Blacks. Would the court have still ruled in Wilders favour to preach hatred in these circumstances? I'm sure not.

There is a difference between freedom of speech to things that people don't agree with and demonizing and dehumanizing and legitimizing the religion of 1.6 Billion people.

 

[Solomon2]

Solomon, that statement is not appropriate to the hate speech coming out of Wilders. His hate speech is nothing but incitement -

If I say your face is ugly that is an insult. If your buddy tells you to hit me that is incitement.

Would you agree with the same statement if Wilders -

Why muddy the issues with hypotheticals? This is a specific case. No one says that Wilders didn't have a fair trial. If you have an issue with the verdict you must examine the court record and find fault there.

John Burgess continues:

Arab News editorializes against the acquittal of Geert Wilders in a Dutch court. It expresses the hurt that many Muslims feel about Wilders’ comments, but misses the point on free expression, something troubling for a newspaper.

Yes, Wilders’ comments and film have been denigrating and crude. They are examples of ‘bad speech’, speech that does not enlighten us, entertain us, confirm for us our preferred view of life. Rather, they are models of what challenge us, either to refute or to ignore. It’s somewhat amazing that the ‘right to ignore’ is so little exercised these days. We are not obliged to reply to every idiot that makes a stupid statement. In fact, if ignored, if not thrust into even greater notoriety by media and popular reaction, many of the idiots just go away.

The Dutch verdict does not mean that the Dutch court hates Islam or Muslims. What it does mean is that Islam, as a religion, does not have the right to special treatment. It is not immune, in the Netherlands, from criticism, even criticism couched in vulgar or hateful words. Nor, contrary to the editorial, does Judaism. In fact, anti-Semitism is a rising problem in Europe–and, some say, the US. Christianity certainly takes its abuse in the West as well.

The editorial also misses the point when it speaks of one person’s rights ending where begins another person’s nose. This statement, originating in Zechariah Chafee’s 1919 law review article “Freedom of Speech in Wartime” actually goes: Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man’s nose begins. The context is actual, physical contact, not verbal. Speech which leads to physical altercations can be and usually is banned, even criminalized. Speech which lacks this physical response—which can include rioting, destruction of property, or violence against people—is not protected speech. Speech which falls short of that physicality is protected speech.

Feelings, sensitivities, honor, and many other emotions and states can be bruised by words, but these are not the same as a physical punch in the nose. Laws recognize the difference. The Dutch laws protecting speech are not as expansive as the American First Amendment. Had Wilders’ comments been aimed at individual Muslims, the court said, they would have indeed fallen on the wrong side of the line. But they were not aimed at people, but at a religion. Religion, as a metaphysical thing, does not have feeling to be hurt. It does not have a nose to be punched.

 

[salvage]

wilders and pastor terry deserve RPG-7 in their rear

 

[Solomon2]

wilders and pastor terry deserve RPG-7 in their rear

What for? Showing courage?

 

[salvage]

What for? Showing courage?

for misbehaving ..whatelse?
this rat has put at stake national security of holland....if something happens dont blame it on muslims later on.

 

[Solomon2]

for misbehaving ..whatelse?

Court says he didn't misbehave, not criminally anyway. Analyze the trial if you have a problem with its judgement.

this rat has put at stake national security of holland.

It's up to the Dutch to decide what values they choose to defend, isn't it?

...if something happens dont blame it on muslims later on.

Everybody is responsible for their own choices. Why should someone get off the hook just because he or she is a Muslim? And if a community of Muslims endorses, say, Wilders' murder, doesn't that community share responsibility?

 

[somebozo]

Off course in European minds defaming Muslims is not a crime. How can those already precievied to be stone age animals can be defamed? CIA please send more funds to train and arm alquaida type terrorist cell which can give us a lot of positive PR around the world..(sarcasm)