WikiLeaks: Narendra Modi, the lone honest Indian politician

[drunken-monke]

....and I guess you have the complete, secret information....? Did you see the names of his parents, his brothers & his sisters? Did they all change their names too? Pointless & silly.

Dont you know that Wikipedia can be edited by anybody....

Example: Page of Rahul Gandhi has been edited completely...

 

[Manas]

He got busted buddy...

It was a bloody riot where muslims mobs went around killed and injured hindus , not as if only hindus were on rampage and muslims got meekly slaughtered ,not to mention in Godhra , a muslim majority town were 59 hindus died when train bogies set on fire by muslim criminals ushering the Hindu retaliation later on resulting in two months long Gujarat riots .

police officials said that the backlash could be especially seen in ahmedabad, where out of the total number of persons injured in stabbings, 62 are hindus and 30 muslims. the overall figures for gujarat of those injured in stabbings tell a different story, with 131 hindus and 179 muslims.

More fall prey to police firings in Gujarat - The Times of India

 

[kurup]

Why blame Nehru for having a child. If the people of this country would keep electing his offsprings then its the people who are responsible for the state they are in.

Regarding the second point I would say its easy to criticize someone in retrospective. What Nehru inherited was a patchwork of states and you can't take away his contribution of forging us into a Nation. Irrespective of all the wrongs he may have done this single deed exorcise him of all of them.

I dislike Nehru. Viscerally. However, it is only fair to point out that his contribution, along with that of his entire generation of politicians, was the reason why we have a relatively free, relatively workable democracy. Your two points are difficult to accept.

You guys take it lightly.I was just talking about dynasty politics which has gulp India due to the two points I mentioned .......

 

[drunken-monke]

It was a bloody riot where muslims mobs went around killed and injured hindus , not as if only hindus were on rampage and muslims got meekly slaughtered ,not to mention in Godhra , a muslim majority town were 59 hindus died when train bogies set on fire by muslim criminals ushering the Hindu retaliation later on resulting in two months long Gujarat riots .



More fall prey to police firings in Gujarat - The Times of India

Yes and they still say, it was a riot only against muslims...

 

[Jackdaws]

Yes and they still say, it was a riot only against muslims...

Who said that? All of us know are aware that the train burning in Godhra set off the riots that ensued. The issue is not that there was retaliation, the issue is that the state machinery took sides in the riots and according to some neutral sourced aided the rioters.

 

[deepak.chauhan2312]

Stupidity is a common trait of you for sure....it says other people tell him that Modi is glowing- it also says Modi has made himself LOOK (operative word) incorruptibale. Where does it say that is the assessment of the USG itself?

chup kr....

 

[Guynextdoor2]

chup kr....

Shooo......

It was a bloody riot where muslims mobs went around killed and injured hindus , not as if only hindus were on rampage and muslims got meekly slaughtered ,not to mention in Godhra , a muslim majority town were 59 hindus died when train bogies set on fire by muslim criminals ushering the Hindu retaliation later on resulting in two months long Gujarat riots .



More fall prey to police firings in Gujarat - The Times of India

If both sides went around rioting and the state was truly helpless, no one would blame modi. But that really wasn't the case was it?

http://archive.tehelka.com/story_main35.asp?filename=Ne031107gujrat_sec.asp

 

[apolitical]

Wow too much intense politics and bickering going on in this thread. If politics is so intensely turning people of differing political affiliations against one another, then I am afraid we might not be ready for this "democracy" after all. Its one thing to logically argue against differing viewpoints, we Indians of all political viewpoints should argue politics with manners and respect for other viewpoints...

For the vilest part, the family and personal slanders and slurs, this has been the stock in trade of the filthiest elements of the Sangh Parivar. To remind readers of their peculiar, perverted view of the world, these are the ***** who said, in public, on record, that Muslims did everything in reverse, that while Hindus ate with their right hands, the Muslims did so with their left; extending this, that Hindus ate with their mouths. What can be filthier than these comments? That is the exact, precise group that ainsinuated that Feroze Gandhi was not a Parsi, after all, but that from his first name, his provenance was clear. Our member, @vsdoc, a Parsi of high lineage who has possibly since left the forum, testified bluntly that Feroze Gandhi was well known within the community, and that they did not know why the Sangh Parivar felt that he was a crypto-Muslim (as if that matters to anyone but the foul creatures that make up the Parivar).

I have opposed the Congress for forty years, but they never stooped to the vicious levels of the Parivar. Only utter swines could come ut with this libels, and repeat them so readily at every opportunity.

I do take objection with this part of the post, its unfair to compare non-elected Hindu organizations like RSS/VHP with Congress, if you are going to compare them, compare them with some of the extremist Muslim elements that are non-elected as well. Listen to some of their speeches, and they say some pretty nasty things about Indian (and other human) non-Muslims as well.

 

[apolitical]

If both sides went around rioting and the state was truly helpless, no one would blame modi. But that really wasn't the case was it?

If Modi is truly guilty of organizing the riots, a wish him the rest of his life in jail, and an even more $hitty after-life in hell if such a thing exists. That can only happen if the Supreme Court, or any other proper judicial court in India convicts him of these crimes with proof. The fact that he has been given a clear-through by a Special Investigation Team appointed by the Supreme Court, the highest court in India, means that he is innocent (at least for now). Making false propaganda claims against a man who has legally been pronounced innocent (for now) by the highest judicial institution in the country is nothing but a political move to get rid of political competition by cheap tactics like tarnishing his image. And sadly, that is what Congress and some pro-Congress left-leaning media outlets are doing right now.

Random pieces of journalism (many of which media outlets in India are very much politically biased and bought out one way or another) cannot be the judge of whether Modi is innocent or guilty of organizing/complicity in the riots...

 

[Joe Shearer]

Wow too much intense politics and bickering going on in this thread. If politics is so intensely turning people of differing political affiliations against one another, then I am afraid we might not be ready for this "democracy" after all. Its one thing to logically argue against differing viewpoints, we Indians of all political viewpoints should argue politics with manners and respect for other viewpoints...

I do take objection with this part of the post, its unfair to compare non-elected Hindu organizations like RSS/VHP with Congress, if you are going to compare them, compare them with some of the extremist Muslim elements that are non-elected as well. Listen to some of their speeches, and they say some pretty nasty things about Indian (and other human) non-Muslims as well.

For a person who calls himself 'apolitical', unless the nick you have adopted is intended to be sarcastic, you do seem to spend a lot of time, considering how long you have spent on the forum, defending one set of people. It is not new for hired assassins to be removed forcibly from membership and then come around again under a false name, but I sincerely hope that this is not your case.

Regarding the point that you made, it is utterly indefensible. The BJP is known, prominently and in public knowledge, to the political front of the RSS, which has other fronts as well, together constituting the Sangh Parivar. It has no views of its own. Those in the BJP who have the audacity to drift too far from the RSS line are soon reduced to the ranks. This was displayed most prominently in the recent rearrangements made by Rajnath Singh, on taking over from Gadkari.

Therefore, the RSS has brought itself into the forefront, and cannot claim a privileged 'apolitical' position. That is its position only in name. In fact, it is involved in politics up to its neck.

Regarding other Muslim extremist non-elected elements, every post cannot have a dhobi list of organizations that I disapprove of, every time. Those who have had the membership and tenure to judge will have seen that my posts are equally harsh on religious extremists of all sorts, not one or the other singled out for distinction.

However, for the record, for my education, which was this Muslim organization that you had in mind?

If Modi is truly guilty of organizing the riots, a wish him the rest of his life in jail, and an even more $hitty after-life in hell if such a thing exists. That can only happen if the Supreme Court, or any other proper judicial court in India convicts him of these crimes with proof. The fact that he has been given a clear-through by a Special Investigation Team appointed by the Supreme Court, the highest court in India, means that he is innocent (at least for now). Making false propaganda claims against a man who has legally been pronounced innocent (for now) by the highest judicial institution in the country is nothing but a political move to get rid of political competition by cheap tactics like tarnishing his image. And sadly, that is what Congress and some pro-Congress left-leaning media outlets are doing right now.

Random pieces of journalism (many of which media outlets in India are very much politically biased and bought out one way or another) cannot be the judge of whether Modi is innocent or guilty of organizing/complicity in the riots...

Your gallantry is misplaced, and would be better displayed in the cause of those brutalized in the riots that Modi instigated, rather in defending him.

For your mental edification, the Supreme Court was so skeptical about the propensity to protect brother officers on the part of the SIT chairman that it appointed an amicus curiae to assist it. This is nothing but an admission that the SIT failed, and other, safer alternatives are needed.

 

[anonymus]

@drunken-monke Your take on riots is that they were spontaneous.A view shared by a lot of people.


@Joe Shearer your take on riots is that they were planned.Again a view shared by a lot of people.


My take on this issue is that

It was an anniversary of babri masjid demolition. Every one including sangh parivar expected some disturbances to take place and planned for contingencies.

The Godhra train burning incident gave an excuse to put that plan in action.

So the riots were both spontaneous and organised.They were spontaneous as it was train burning incident which provided the spark and motivational force but without advanced planning they would not have been so successful.

The point i have made is effectively useless but is important in understanding as to how people could have polarized views on this as both sides could argue their case with logic.


@drunken-monke

It is duty of administrators to remain neutral and not side at one of aggravating party.

The State provides a balance and distributive justice.As a corollary it is duty of state to side with weak party if it is aggressed upon.This is the reason that if a goon tries to extract bounty from you,government should interfere.

The point some people made about revenge are perfectly correct.The belief that we should wait for justice to be done by judiciary when someone attack you on the basis of identity is defeatism.

But could you or someone else explain as to how revenge was fulfilled by attacking muslims in ahemdabad.Would it not be more appropriate if rioters would have attacked locality in godhra which has a hand in train burning.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@drunken-monke Your take on riots is that they were spontaneous.A view shared by a lot of people.


@Joe Shearer your take on riots is that they were planned.Again a view shared by a lot of people.


My take on this issue is that

It was an anniversary of babri masjid demolition. Every one including sangh parivar expected some disturbances to take place and planned for contingencies.

The Godhra train burning incident gave an excuse to put that plan in action.

So the riots were both spontaneous and organised.They were spontaneous as it was train burning incident which provided the spark and motivational force but without advanced planning they would not have been so successful.

The point i have made is effectively useless but is important in understanding as to how people could have polarized views on this as both sides could argue their case with logic.


@drunken-monke

It is duty of administrators to remain neutral and not side at one of aggravating party.

The State provides a balance and distributive justice.As a corollary it is duty of state to side with weak party if it is aggressed upon.This is the reason that if a goon tries to extract bounty from you,government should interfere.

The point some people made about revenge are perfectly correct.The belief that we should wait for justice to be done by judiciary when someone attack you on the basis of identity is defeatism.

But could you or someone else explain as to how revenge was fulfilled by attacking muslims in ahemdabad.Would it not be more appropriate if rioters would have attacked locality in godhra which has a hand in train burning.

I really appreciate your posts. They were like I used to write before the constant friction of this forum rubbed my nerves raw.

On balance, after reading your presentation, I find myself in agreement with most of what you say. The small portion where we differ is equally poised; I see that it is unnatural to expect humans at the receiving end of barbaric behaviour to act rationally and as good citizens.

Great post.

 

[drunken-monke]

@drunken-monke Your take on riots is that they were spontaneous.A view shared by a lot of people.


@Joe Shearer your take on riots is that they were planned.Again a view shared by a lot of people.


My take on this issue is that

It was an anniversary of babri masjid demolition. Every one including sangh parivar expected some disturbances to take place and planned for contingencies.

The Godhra train burning incident gave an excuse to put that plan in action.

So the riots were both spontaneous and organised.They were spontaneous as it was train burning incident which provided the spark and motivational force but without advanced planning they would not have been so successful.

The point i have made is effectively useless but is important in understanding as to how people could have polarized views on this as both sides could argue their case with logic.


@drunken-monke

It is duty of administrators to remain neutral and not side at one of aggravating party.

The State provides a balance and distributive justice.As a corollary it is duty of state to side with weak party if it is aggressed upon.This is the reason that if a goon tries to extract bounty from you,government should interfere.

The point some people made about revenge are perfectly correct.The belief that we should wait for justice to be done by judiciary when someone attack you on the basis of identity is defeatism.

But could you or someone else explain as to how revenge was fulfilled by attacking muslims in ahemdabad.Would it not be more appropriate if rioters would have attacked locality in godhra which has a hand in train burning.

As I have already mentioned in my post, the life lost in the riots may it be Hindu or Muslim, for me it was the blood of Indian which was shed on the ground...

Yes, you are absolutely correct that, the revenge would not result in bringing back of the loved ones who had lost the life in Massacare or would heal the damages, it will only detoriate the situation... But can you ask people to restrain during these high tension incidents.. They would consider yourself/myself against themselves..

In case naroda patia, I still feel my deepest sarrow and condolances.. One of the most unfortunate incident ever happened as I have already mentioned in my previous posts...

What point I have is, its fault of everyone, both communities (Koi dudh ka dhula nahi hota), adminstration and even adjoining states who did not responded on plea for help.... Pointing finger only at Modi is just like making him scapegoat for all these UNFORTUNATE events..

great post of yours...

regards

Who said that? All of us know are aware that the train burning in Godhra set off the riots that ensued. The issue is not that there was retaliation, the issue is that the state machinery took sides in the riots and according to some neutral sourced aided the rioters.

What is the authenticity of thoes sources????

 

[Rig Vedic]

This is the lowest common denominator of vileness that hirelings and lackeys of the Sangh ...

I have opposed the Congress for forty years, but they never stooped to the vicious levels of the Parivar. Only utter swines could come ut with this libels, and repeat them so readily at every opportunity.

Sir you are a senior member here. Surely you are aware the the Congress has butchered far more people than Modi is alleged to have harmed, even by his most rabid critics?

 

[jha]

Expecting Hindus to behave in controlled manner when 59 of them were burned alive is something which is laughable to say the least. Emotions run high and unfortunately the whole community becomes enemy. I am saying this because I have experienced it first hand. Bhagalpur riots were as brutal as Godhra. I was still a kid then but remember everything, every little incident which turned highly educated persons from both communities into warriors. I have seen trucks carrying explosives arriving from Muslim dominated areas and also seen hundreds of Hindus arriving to fight them off.
Expecting the riots to be a local issue for Godhra is also not a valid argument. The people who were burned alive were mostly from Ahmadabad. How can we expect Ahmadabadis to got to Godhra for revenge.

Plus we should not forget that no neighboring state offered any help to Gujrat with police force. As disturbing as it may sound but Godhra riot is jsut another political card for a Party. Any justice ( if delivered ) will be provided by SCI.