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Wikileaks Diplomatic Cables

I think you are myth-making to cover up your ignorance here.

It was Mr. Bhutto who vowed, "We will eat grass but will make atom bomb [if India makes one]" long before Zia ruled Pakistan. The program already existed, but would have proceeded slower.

Zia was committed to dictatorship and knew that Islam had been employed by dictators to aid their rule in the past.

Nonsense. Instead it appears to me that you are pooping on the U.S. to excuse yourself of any responsibility for your country's situation. Or is there some other way for me to interpret what you are saying here?

Didnt Henry Kissinger thretened Bhutoo of Dire Consequences of folowing the Path of devloping Nukes and Ultimately Bhutto's Gov was topled by the EVIL Zia .. All of that couldnt have happened or the Zia's Gov would not have sustained a single week without the Help of US Backing....:agree: Islam was a tool for those azzhole Mulahs even before the emergence of Zia then why couldnt they have mastered it too get to the Government. So u see it need some exterior maneuvering too and US provided it. All US no one else...!!!

Seems like you are runing away from the horrible crimes US committed against the State of Pakistan and the history beautifully explains US's habbit of scapegoating the week...!!!
 
American diplomat Jeanne Kirkpatrick drew a distinction between authoritarian regimes and totalitarian ones. Authoritarian regimes which rule by force such as Franco's Spain can evolve over time into democratic ones; totalitarian regimes which attempt to rule people's thoughts like the Soviet Union or post-1979 Iran cannot. What route do you think Zia chose?

It was not only the EVIL ZIA who made the most out of Izlamic Card... !
No one in yanky land could have though that what wonder playing with the Religious sentiments could have brought after a decade or two
 
Didnt Henry Kissinger thretened Bhutoo of Dire Consequences of folowing the Path of devloping Nukes -
Kissinger was out the door, never to return, as of January 20, 1977.

...and Ultimately Bhutto's Gov was topled by the EVIL Zia .. All of that couldnt have happened or the Zia's Gov would not have sustained a single week without the Help of US Backing....:agree:
No, I don't agree at all. After all, in 1971 the U.S. couldn't stop the Pakistani Army from slaying hundreds of thousands of Pakistani citizens once the P.A. decided to do so. Only when Pakistan is fighting Indians or terrorists is U.S. backing necessary to sustain the government.

So u see it need some exterior maneuvering too and US provided it. All US no one else...!!!
It looks like I'm right; America is your excuse! After all, "exterior maneuvering" accepts that the actual decision-makers were Pakistani, not foreign.
 
Kissinger was out the door, never to return, as of January 20, 1977.

Its on Record that how Kissinger Thretened Bhutto of Dire Consequences

In May 1974 India exploded a Nuclear device which it called “peaceful”. Following India’s explosion, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto pledged to press ahead with Pakistan’s nuclear program.

“We will eat grass…” Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto’s Referring to financing the Pakistani Nuclear program.

The US pressured him not to build a bomb. However ZAB he did not bend. He stood his ground in the fact of tremendous Americans pressure. In 1976 he was threatened by Henry Kissinger with “horrible” consequences for pursuing a nuclear program. (Kissinger’s exact words: “We will destabilize your government and l make a horrible example out of you.” Within six months there were massive riots in Pakistan and Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was removed from office and then hanged by General Zia ul Haq, a General supported by the USA for more than a decade.

“But the croupier was already paid off and the dice was fixed!”I don’t believe in conspiracy theories in general, but the similarities in the staging of riots in Chile (where the CIA allegedly helped overthrow President Salvadore Allande) and in Pakistan are just too close.” he said. Ramsey Clark

“Bhutto’s execution could set off the single most dramatic change in world power alignment since World War II.”

“If anyone in the Kremlin has dreams of power, he said, “the road to the Persian Sea has to be a golden road.”Unless the United States makes a stand…., Clark warned, the eighth most populous nation in the world could be carved up….by Soviet Union….”"As Americans, we must ask ourselves this: Is it possible that a rational military leader under the circumstances in Pakistan could have overthrown a constitutional government, without at least the tacit approval of the United States?”Ramsey Clark wrote ” Bhutto was removed from power in Pakistan by force on the 5th of July, after the usual party on the 4th at the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad, with U.S. approval, if not more, by General Zia al-Haq. Bhutto was falsely accused and brutalized for months during proceedings that corrupted the judiciary of Pakistan before being murdered, then hanged. That Bhutto had run for president of the student body at University of California in Berkeley and helped arrange the opportunity for Nixon to visit China did not help him when he defied the U.S. (CovertAction Quarterly magazine, Fall 1998) Ramsey Clark”By 10:30, according to the official news release, Mr Bhutto’s body had been flown to his ancestral village of Ghari Khuda Baksh, near his hometown of Larkana in Sindh Province, and buried in the family cemetery with only a few relatives and friends present. They included his first wife, Shirin Amir.”The way they did it,” said a foreigner who follows Pakistani politics, “is going to grow into a legend that will some day backfire.” (New York Times, Apr 5, 1979)

After all, "exterior maneuvering" accepts that the actual decision-makers were Pakistani, not foreign.

So you negate the role of Any Foreign entity in events which took Place inside Pakistan since its Birth on 14th August 1947...?

:lazy:
 
1) I do not consider Ramsey Clark a reliable source about anything that happened after 1968, and I don't consider his opinion of value at all.

2) I "negate" nothing! I point out that this is a symptom of what appears to be a common Pakistani affliction, the continual search for some scape-goat, usually if not always imagined, to evade personal responsibility for their country's own fate - and thus also, at times, validating their own personal dishonorable or corrupt conduct. I guess the poison is everywhere so you don't see it yourselves, no more than a man can gauge air pressure without a barometer.
 
Until we know more, we are still at the point that if nuclear terror occurs anywhere in the world Pakistan may be considered its home address where retaliation a hundredfold may take place. And that condition will remain until all the Atoms-for-Peace HEU is allowed to be inspected and accounted for, then returned to the U.S. (in accord, I think, with the original Pakistan-U.S. bilateral agreement on this matter.)
 
sounds like gambit :lol:

untill we can sort 9/11 inside job you will be acused as the number 1 false flag activity nation you will be shunned humiliated and yes the world dosnt think of you as a super power no more .
 
Until we know more, we are still at the point that if nuclear terror occurs anywhere in the world Pakistan may be considered its home address where retaliation a hundredfold may take place.

What makes you think that only Pakistan could be the home adress of that.. Arent we forgetting the corruption is an essential factor of how things work in US , perhaps somebody from US could have provided the Bomb for the Nuclear Terror you mentioned or envisioned in ur wildest dreams..!
And then the US could scapegoat Pakistan and force it to Disarm its nukes and all the Nuclear Facillity and in light of Pakistani Refusal US might Nuke it just the way it did in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Killing Billions of Muzlums just from a push of a button

Theres plenty of Proof of corruption in US organizations.OH BTW was it donald Rumsfeild who provided Saddam those chemiocal and Biological weapons which he happily bombed the Kurds with...??
 
What makes you think that only Pakistan could be the home adress of that.
A country hit by nuclear terror would be apt to retaliate by striking ALL probable sources of such terror. N.K. definitely is on the list, and probably Iran. Now Pakistan could be added.

Arent we forgetting the corruption is an essential factor of how things work in US , perhaps somebody from US could have -
No, corruption exists, but it is NOT "an essential factor of how things work in the US". The U.S. is, as Harry Truman wrote, the most successful system of government mankind has ever invented. The rule-of-law prevails here, and it limits the powerful as well as protecting the powerless; corruption is often discovered and the guilty party convicted and sent to jail. And when it comes to nuclear materials, law enforcement and physical tracking are very tight.

And then the US could scapegoat Pakistan and force it to Disarm its nukes and all the Nuclear Facillity and in light of Pakistani Refusal US might Nuke it just the way it did in Hiroshima -
WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT IF THE U.S. SUFFERED NUCLEAR TERRORISM IT COULD POSSIBLY ATTIRBUTE TO PAKISTAN THE U.S. WOULD PAUSE TO ASK PAKISTAN TO DISARM BEFORE RETALIATING?

No, I imagine a nation would be asked to disarm after the U.S. retaliated. And if the U.S. was refused, then in a little while all that remained of that nation would be ruins and memories.
 
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HAVE FUN GUYS
 
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A Lesson in media manipulation

Today’s US diplomatic cables leak by Wikileaks, called Cablegate has set off a global diplomatic crises with various countries feeling the heat for remarks and allegations in the leaked messages. While none of the 2, 200 emerging from the US Embassy in Islamabad have been released yet, others from around the region have already sparked debate on various issues. The case of the US wanting access to highly enriched uranium has been somewhat overshadowed in the local media by one alleged quotation of the King of Saudi Arabia terming the President “the greatest obstacle to Pakistan’s progress”.

Let us examine the original quote from transcript, available on the Cablegate website:-

King Abdullah firmly believes that Asif Zardari is the primary obstacle to the government’s ability to move unequivocally to end terrorist safe havens there (“when the head is rotten, it affects the whole body”).

Source : Cable Viewer

The New York Times, which mentioned the alleged quote in its coverage mentions this conversation as:-

“King Abdullah “called President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan the greatest obstacle to that country’s progress. “When the head is rotten,” he said, “it affects the whole body.”

The News mentions this as:-

“King Abdullah calling President Asif Ali Zardari as “the greatest obstacle to Pakistan’s progress””.

This quote has then been pasted across all newspaper, websites and blogs across the globe on Telegraph, Dawn, Daily Times, CBS, NDTV, Aaj TV, Geo, Telegraph (India) and hundreds of other places.

While the real quote itself is not flattering, although completely laughable since Asif Ali Zardari was being lambasted for being insensitive about collateral damage (“Collateral damage worries you Americans. It does not worry me” in Bob Woodward’s unprovable “Obama’s Wars”) just weeks ago, it shows how a single word can change entire narratives. A manipulation to “progress” has allowed the media to portray the remarks from the Saudi monarch as representative of Asif Ali Zardaris’ views as a corrupt leader. There is no doubt that the man’s character has been called into question many times, and many countries see his tarnished image of the yesteryears as problematic but the way manipulation has been done to align it with the media narrative of the President being corrupt is highly deplorable, criminal and shameful. Urdu media of course has used the same quote and the media is now talking about the said quote as proof that Saudi Arabia, a country that is represented as our true friend regardless of their historical role and yet again proven private financing of Al-Qaeda and other terrorists, views the present government as a corrupt regime.

The misquote, nay manipulation, has been used already by Dawn, The News, Express and Daily Times and most likely will be used by all leading newspapers. In this they choose not to dig deep and check sources and rely on the New York Times, a globally credited news source, and therefore can be assessed as having not been merely jumping on the anti-PPP bandwagon. However, the effect that this quote will have cannot be ignored. It shows us that a simple change of word, deliberate or mere mistake, can lead to a lot of damage. The global media now shows that Saudi Arabia, which is seen as Pakistan’s ally, does not trust the leadership of the country, see them as a problem to the country’s progress and view them as corrupt rulers. The local media will most definitely utilize this alleged quote of the “Khadim e Harmain Shareefain” to state that the stories corruption of the government have crossed international boundaries and the justified criticism of the media’s sensationalism and mis-representations on the issue of corruption were therefore not valid. The narrative of “corrupt government” will be further strengthened and the President’s image further tarnished, yet again without any proof and this time through manipulated quotes.

Concerning the real quote from King Abdullah, it is ironic that the President of a government that launched military action in Swat, Orakzai, South Waziristan and openly engaged terrorists across the country is being called as being an obstacle to removing terrorism. The previous regime stonewalled international pressure to tackle terrorists in FATA and let the monsters of Swat grow, while the current government tackled the issue head on and it’s coalition partners in the KP have suffered immensely due to their stand on the issue of terrorism as well. No one can rightly accuse the current regime of having avoided tackling the terrorists. Times are difficult and the terrorists have increased their attacks, but nobody in his right mind can accuse the PPP and Asif Ali Zardari of having been soft on terrorists. Benazir Bhutto was killed by the establishment using Baitullah Mehsud and the PPP has never been accused of having a soft spot for militants. For the monarch of a country that has again been shown to be playing a double game and financing Al-Qaeda and other militants behind the world’s back, asking the US to bomb Iran and posturing itself in such a way that it rips apart the whole concept of Muslim brotherhood, to accuse Pakistan – the biggest victim of terrorism and Wahabi financed monsters is laughable.

Shame on the New York Times for having manipulated the quote for whatever reasons. Shame on the local media for jumping on the NYT’s gun and ignoring to check the source for themselves. Let us see how a manipulated quote can have damaging consequences.

What has further been ignored is the Saudi support for dictatorship in the country. The very next sentence after the manipulated quote says:

The King told General Jones that U.S. development assistance would rebuild trust with the Army, which he asserted was staying out of politics in deference to U.S. wishes, rather than doing what it “should.”

The international and local media have conveniently ignored that Saudi Arabia support anti-democracy moves in the country. The country that supported the dictator Zia ul Haq and during his regime solidified the network of Wahabi madrassas that it funds till today, is yet again supporting unconstitutional moves from the military of Pakistan. It is worthwhile to note that Army Chief Ashfaq Pervez Kayani has met the King of Saudi Arabia twice in the last eighteen months. It seems perhaps that the Saudi monarch is upset with the steadfast stance of President Zardari and Prime Minister Gilani on the issue of terrorism and would like to see the military and the establishment ruling the roost directly and protecting their combined child, the Taliban.

A Lesson in media manipulation – by Eqbal Alavi|Let Us Build Pakistan
 

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