Wide Asia support for US despite China rise

[Aepsilons]

Now you call it 'give Vietnam culture'. Just a few day ago a Chinese member called it 'stole Chinese culture'.
China is a big race melting pot. Whatever race or ethnic group in it become mixed and come out as one. Vietnam was thrown in it for 1000 years and came out intact. Surely there must be reasons why our ancestors sook independence from China.
I am ashamed to admit that a number of Vietnamese embrace the idea of becoming a colony for US yet I haven't seen anyone shows the same idea toward China. China is surely unpopular to Vietnamese.

It should also be noted that Vietnam, unlike China, was capable of resisting the Mongol invasion. There were 3 great civilizations in Asia that was able to resist the Mongols worthy of note:

1) Japan (we resisted them on their two attempts in 1274, and 1281)
2) Dai Viet
3) Majapahit Empire

 

[pigtaker]

Now you call it 'give Vietnam culture'. Just a few day ago a Chinese member called it 'stole Chinese culture'.
China is a big race melting pot. Whatever race or ethnic group in it become mixed and come out as one. Vietnam was thrown in it for 1000 years and came out intact. Surely there must be reasons why our ancestors sook independence from China.
I am ashamed to admit that a number of Vietnamese embrace the idea of becoming a colony for US yet I haven't seen anyone shows the same idea toward China. China is surely unpopular to Vietnamese.

We fully understand your ungrateful and treacherous nature, and we don't care your opinion toward us.

The more you hated us, the easiler for us to handle you. The only language you understand is power and ruthless.

 

[Aepsilons]

Despite what many in China might like to claim but China has never been a force of peace and will not be one in the near future.

Not only does it has border disputes with its neighbors, it resorts to bullying and abusing its military power to pursue its territorial claims against them.

There's not a single country in the world that can be described as an ally of China. Even Russia and North Korea, two countries that in any manner can be described as friendly to China do not trust China fully. China doesn't trust them fully either. And it is worth noting that both Russia and N Korea have similarly tyrant governments like China and all these countries engage in mass human rights abuses and restricting civil liberties.

This is correct. The Chinese historians claim that their civilization was peaceful, which is rather untrue. When China was conquered by the Mongols (who then ruled China vis-a-vis the Yuan Dynasty), the Chinese made up the majority of the ranks of the Mongol armies.

For example, when the Mongols invaded Japan in 1274, a force of some 25,000 went to Japan. Of that 25,000, majority were Chinese soldiers. That invasion force was annihilated , tho. When they invaded a second time in 1281, the Mongols amassed a force of some 140,000 troops , of which the majority were Chinese. That force was repulsed and annihilated, as well.

When the Mongols invaded Dai Viet, most of the ranks that went to Vietnam were Chinese that were forced into the armies; and they perished with their Mongol overlords. When Mongols decided to invade the Kingdom of Singhasari and Majapahit Empire in Java, majority of their forces were eradicated at sea and in land by the Javanese defenders.

One thing that i notice about Mongols and Chinese , through historical context, was their failure in maritime warfare. This precedent continued into the 19th and 20th centuries, too. When the Chinese navy was completely eradicated by the Imperial Japanese Navy in the 1st and 2nd Sino-Japanese Wars.

 

[xesy]

One thing that i notice about Mongols and Chinese , through historical context, was their failure in maritime warfare. This precedented continued into the 19th and 20th centuries, too. When the Chinese navy was completely eradicated by the Imperial Japanese Navy in the 1st and 2nd Sino-Japanese Wars.

China traditional warfare stategy is mostly based on ground force. In the 1979 war with Vietnam, China only mobilized its ground force and caused devastating damage to Vietnam. In recent years China developed its navy and she is eager to show the world that Chinese navy is fearsome too. Vietnam is the test ground for Chinese navy, as China does not have the gut to pick on Japan yet.

 

[Aepsilons]

China traditional warfare stategy is mostly based on ground force. In the 1979 war with Vietnam, China only mobilized its ground force and caused devastating damage to Vietnam. In recent years China developed its navy and she is eager to show the world that Chinese navy is fearsome too. Vietnam is the test ground for Chinese navy, as China does not have the gut to pick on Japan yet.

Precisely. They have always been a land - based power.

They never were a naval power. We always have been. The Japanese Navy will continue to be the pre-eminent naval power in Asia - Pacific (not counting the US) for the foreseeable future.

Japan has a long history of naval prowess , and a dedicated, experienced naval branch. Our navy is second only to the United States.

 

[xesy]

They never were a naval power. We always have been. The Japanese Navy will continue to be the pre-eminent naval power in Asia - Pacific (not counting the US) for the foreseeable future.

You can't say for sure. China is rising, it's undeniable. Maybe China navy strategy is only capable of transporting troops and provide fire support, not engaging in open naval conflict in large scale.

 

[Aepsilons]

You can't say for sure. China is rising, it's undeniable. Maybe China navy strategy is only capable of transporting troops and provide fire support, not engaging in open naval conflict in large scale.

You need to study a bit more on their DDG force, as well as their submarine capability. Japan MSDF has hundreds of ASW aviation units, and a DDG force second only to the United States Navy.

Modesty aside, in a conventional naval warfare scenario, the JMSDF would gut the PLAAN. And of course, I don't think our American partners won't sit idly by.

 

[xesy]

You need to study a bit more on their DDG force, as well as their submarine capability. Japan MSDF has hundreds of ASW aviation units, and a DDG force second only to the United States Navy.

Modesty aside, in a conventional naval warfare scenario, the JMSDF would gut the PLAAN. And of course, I don't think our American partners won't sit idly by.

You misunderstand me. I never doubt the strength of JSDF. I just mean Chinese navy is now capable of taking on any conflicts in the SCS without the US intervention. I think Russia, Japan and India may be reluctant to send their ships to SCS as there will be no base of operation except for US bases.

 

[Aepsilons]

You misunderstand me. I never doubt the strength of JSDF. I just mean Chinese navy is now capable of taking on any conflicts in the SCS without the US intervention. I think Russia, Japan and India may be reluctant to send their ships to SCS as there will be no base of operation except for US bases.

The Russian Pacific Fleet is composed of 6 surface ships (1 cruiser and 5 destroyers), they hardly are a threat, nor can they effectively challenge the PLAAN. The Indian Navy is a potent force, but they operate mostly in the IOR. There are only 2 navies worthy of note that practically commands the Western Pacific: 1) United States Navy Pacific Command, 2) JMSDF.

We are in the building stages , a time of re-orientation. I do not doubt that within the next 5-10 , an accord will be agreed between Japan and the Philippines to allow a rotation of JMSDF ships on their naval bases. Similar to the military pact that Manila and Washington signed recently.

It is too early to tell, but I also have a feeling that Japan and Australia will have further naval inter-operability platforms in the immediate future. Just now they (Aussie) are finalizing a deal to receive naval - sub tech transfer from Japan ; and an interest to purchase several Soryu class subs from JMSDF Submarine Fleet.

Developments are unfolding now.

 

[xesy]

The Russian Pacific Fleet is composed of 6 surface ships (1 cruiser and 5 destroyers), they hardly are a threat, nor can they effectively challenge the PLAAN. The Indian Navy is a potent force, but they operate mostly in the IOR. There are only 2 navies worthy of note that practically commands the Western Pacific: 1) United States Navy Pacific Command, 2) JMSDF.

We are in the building stages , a time of re-orientation. I do not doubt that within the next 5-10 , an accord will be agreed between Japan and the Philippines to allow a rotation of JMSDF ships on their naval bases. Similar to the military pact that Manila and Washington signed recently.

It is too early to tell, but I also have a feeling that Japan and Australia will have further naval inter-operability platforms in the immediate future. Just now they (Aussie) are finalizing a deal to receive naval - sub tech transfer from Japan ; and an interest to purchase several Soryu class subs from JMSDF Submarine Fleet.

Developments are unfolding now.

Wow, you sure know a lot about military around the world. Do you have military background?

 

[Aepsilons]

Wow, you sure know a lot about military around the world. Do you have military background?

I served in the JMSDF before starting my Ph.D program (currently on dissertation phase).

 

[xunzi]

This is correct. The Chinese historians claim that their civilization was peaceful, which is rather untrue. When China was conquored by the Mongols (who then ruled China vis-a-vis the Yuan Dynasty), the Chinese made up the majority of the ranks of the Mongol armies.

For example, when the Mongols invaded Japan in 1274, a force of some 25,000 went to Japan. Of that 25,000, majority were Chinese soldiers. That invasionary force was annihilated , tho. When they invaded a second time in 1281, the Mongols ammassed a force of some 140,000 troops , of which the majority were Chinese. That force was repulsed and annihilated, as well.

When the Mongols invaded Dai Viet, most of the ranks that went to Vietnam were Chinese that were forced into the armies; and they perished with their Mongol overlords. When Mongols decided to invade the Kingdom of Singhasari and Majapahit Empire in Java, majority of their forces were eradicated at sea and in land by the Javanese defenders.

One thing that i notice about Mongols and Chinese , through historical context, was their failure in maritime warfare. This precedented continued into the 19th and 20th centuries, too. When the Chinese navy was completely eradicated by the Imperial Japanese Navy in the 1st and 2nd Sino-Japanese Wars.

Shut up. As a country of our long history and prestige, there were bound to be failure and success. One thing is for sure, nobody fuk with us in navy until we closed ourselves off from world during Mid-Ming Dynasty to late Qing, and the rest became history. Our navy became junk due to backwardness. Other than that, we destroyed you at the Battle of Baekgang and Battle of Noryang during Tang and Ming respectively. Not to mention, we hunted and killed your Wokou pirate. We kick your *** back to Japan in those time. This all occured when we were the top dog in Asia. We will soon regain that title in the 21st century. Book it!

 

[Aepsilons]

Shut up. As a country of our long history and prestige, there were bound to be failure and success. One thing is for sure, nobody fuk with us in navy until we closed ourselves off from world during Mid-Ming Dynasty to late Qing, and the rest became history. Our navy became junk due to backwardness. Other than that, we destroyed you at the Battle of Baekgang and Battle of Noryang during Tang and Ming respectively. Not to mention, we hunted and killed your Wokou pirate. We kick your *** back to Japan in those time. This all occured when we were the top dog in Asia. We will soon regain that title in the 21st century. Book it!

lol. Your over-reaction is a sign of your innate immaturity and incapability to discuss in a modicum of civility. I blame your infantile and narcissistic rants on your youth. Now, back to historical premise (for i truly shan't embellish anything else), the Zhong Guo Fleet was in decay around the collapse of the Ming Dynasty (during the mid 16th century), and continued to the Qing Dynasty and into the early Republic, then into the Nationalist Government of Jiang Jieshi (Chiang Kai Shek). In regards the Imjin Wars (as the Koreans would have it), the death of Hideyoshi Toyotomi. His death precipitated the Council of Elders to organize the Japanese forces in Korea to vacate. Had Hideyoshi not perished, I believe the conquest of Chosun was possible; as seen in his decisive victories in Suncheon and Sacheon.

 

[cnleio]

I served in the JMSDF before starting my Ph.D program (currently on dissertation phase).

It's good, u was a real soldier we'r just keyboard soldiers.
How many years did u serve in JMSDF, which ship ?

 

[xunzi]

lol. Your over-reaction is a sign of your innate immaturity and incapability to discuss in a modicum of civility. I blame your infantile and narcissistic rants on your youth. Now, back to historical premise (for i truly shan't embellish anything else), the Zhong Guo Fleet was in decay around the collapse of the Ming Dynasty (during the mid 16th century), and continued to the Qing Dynasty and into the early Republic, then into the Nationalist Government of Jiang Jieshi (Chiang Kai Shek). In regards the Imjin Wars (as the Koreans would have it), the death of Hideyoshi Toyotomi. His death precipitated the Council of Elders to organize the Japanese forces in Korea to vacate. Had Hideyoshi not perished, I believe the conquest of Chosun was possible; as seen in his decisive victories in Suncheon and Sacheon.

Again, you talk only for the late Ming to Qing period, in which we clearly closed ourselves off and don't actively pursuing navy force. We CLOSED ourselves off. Don't you get it?

The Imjin War, clearly you got the upper hand on Korean until we entered the war and regained Pyongyang and Seoul and pushed you deep into South Korea in which there was a stalemate for several year and you wanted to settle talk with the Ming force and demanding outlandish term. Even demand half of South Korea. We rejected, of course. Then a second war resumed. This time, we amassed even a larger force and finally you no longer believe an invasion on Ming is possible, you settle for talk. Defeated and humiliated, you asked to become a vassal state of Ming again and returned back to Japan. It had nothing to do with Hideyoshi. Your force can't move even an inch past the 38th parallel line. Fact is fact.