Why would Greek civilization be considered Western and Iranian civilization

[American_Millenium]

Rome and Greece were Mediterranean Civilizations, which derived their civilization from Middle-Eastern Civilizations and other Mediterranean civilizations. The "westerners" were regarded as culture-less, barbaric savages...until these civilizations passed on their culture, which again was derived from East, to the rest of the Western World....and hence introducing them with some "real" culture and civilization.

These are facts. Go cry somewhere else. What their not-so-bright 'descendants' consider means zilch.

No one is crying here except for you. The facts are that they were all Western, and the civilizations of the Romans and Greeks were original, barely receiving any 'culture' passed down from the illiterate tribes of the Middle-East.

The pagan civilization of Egypt was not your civilization, nor was any other during the ancient times. Those are facts.

 

[AUz]

Ancient science was far less complex than modern science. Very basic. Apart from nazi's I cant really see how claiming some indian history would make Russian, French, Germans, etc feel better. The bulk of what we use today in our daily lives from computers, to internet, to cars, airplanes, cell phones, had their origins in either the America's or Europe and really should be a source of achievement for that specific nation, not others because they look similar.

Scientific relativism much?

Well, guess what? I know more physics, and can solve more complex physics problems than Newton...Oh, am I better than Newton?

You see, relativism doesn't work.

What you have to see is the most advance/powerful civilization w.r.t to its era...and for that, East produced more number of advance/powerful civilizations throughout history than West did.

So its quite funny...and sad...to see some dumb white guys thinking "Oh man..whites are so great! We the bestttt"

If you take history of 5000 years, East surpasses West by miles! AND, will probably end the tiny era of Western dominant (300 years only) yet again in coming years....i.e if American politicians continue to be the scum bags that they are.

 

[Surenas]

Actually, its the ambition of Alexander the Great that conquered Persia. Persia was weaken but it was still much bigger and stronger than Alexander. And Persia never completely defeated the Greeks. But Greeks completely defeated Persia. And the Selucid empire completely control Persia for a long time. That should also be consider as part of Greek domination of Persia.

1) We defeated the Greeks of Anatolia (Ionians) completely.
2) Being bigger doesn't mean being stronger. In fact, being big makes you weak, as to govern such big empire would be extremely complex, and if not properly managed, could end in you being conquered, as happened to the Persians. But in contrast to Alexander, the Persians had build their own empire. What Alexander did was to conquer what was there. And when he died, political instability followed. Cyrus legacy was much more prominent.

 

[American_Millenium]

Scientific relativism much?

Well, guess what? I know more physics, and can solve more complex physics problems than Newton...Oh, am I better than Newton?

You see, relativism doesn't work.

What you have to see is the most advance/powerful civilization w.r.t to its era...and for that, East produced more number of advance/powerful civilizations throughout history than West did.

So its quite funny...and sad...to see some dumb white guys thinking "Oh man..whites are so great! We the bestttt"

If you take history of 5000 years, East surpasses West by miles! AND, will probably end the tiny era of Western dominant (300 years only) yet again in coming years....i.e if American politicians continue to be the scum bags that they are.

You are squatting in our country while saying this, probably because your own is a dump.

Go back home then, what are you waiting for? LOL, we should send you packing.

 

[Surenas]

No one is crying here except for you. The facts are that they were all Western, and the civilizations of the Romans and Greeks were original, barely receiving any 'culture' passed down from the illiterate tribes of the Middle-East.

'The West' or 'Western' is a artificial term. The Greeks never called themselves Westerners, nor did the Germans called themselves Greeks back then. The Greek and Roman civilizations are only claimable by Greeks and Romans, not by the rest of Europe, who were still wandering around in bear clothes, without a simple clue of how the world looked liked. The Middle East on other hand knows various civilizations since the Sumerians.

 

[AUz]

No one is crying here except for you. The facts are that they were all Western, and the civilizations of the Romans and Greeks were original, barely receiving any 'culture' passed down from the illiterate tribes of the Middle-East.

The pagan civilization of Egypt was not your civilization, nor was any other during the ancient times. Those are facts.

Another dumb American...

Dumbo, Greece and Rome were both Mediterranean Civilizations who LATER passed their civilization to the savage tribes that constituted the majority of Western world.

Middle-East didn't have 'tribes' but civilizations. Earliest writing systems, languages, drawings, symbols, cities, city-states, empires, and civilizations etc all arose in East/Middle-East and then transferred civilization and culture to uncivilized Western world...

Roman writing system was derived from Phoenicians for example...thats not just "barely" receiving anything....thats the basis of the intellectual space of Romans! And do I even need to mention numeric systems?

And I never claimed that Egypt was my civilization. What a joke!

You are squatting in our country while saying this, probably because your own is a dump.

Go back home then, what are you waiting for? LOL, we should send you packing.

Retard, I come to your country AND surpass YOU while competing in markets that are DESIGNED to HELP you. Go figure how pathetically dumb you sound.

Also, what I have written is factual. You can't argue against it. So, like a typical white dumbo, you come out and say "oh you in my country saying..Omg, we the bestttttt..blah blah blah"...

 

[Wright]

Another dumb American...

Dumbo, Greece and Rome were both Mediterranean Civilizations who LATER passed their civilization to the savage tribes that constituted the majority of Western world.

Middle-East didn't have 'tribes' but civilizations. Earliest writing systems, languages, drawings, symbols, cities, city-states, empires, and civilizations etc all arose in East/Middle-East and then transferred civilization and culture to uncivilized Western world...

Roman writing system was derived from Phoenicians for example...thats not just "barely" receiving anything....thats the basis of the intellectual space of Romans! And do I even need to mention numeric systems?

And I never claimed that Egypt was my civilization. What a joke!



Retard, I come to your country AND surpass YOU while competing in markets that are DESIGNED to HELP you. Go figure how pathetically dumb you sound.

Also, what I have written is factual. You can't argue against it. So, like a typical white dumbo, you come out and say "oh you in my country saying..Omg, we the bestttttt..blah blah blah"...

You came to America because:
i) your country is a dump
ii) China, Korea, Japan would never let you in
iii) Arabs would treat you like the trash you are.

'The West' or 'Western' is a artificial term. The Greeks never called themselves Westerners, nor did the Germans called themselves Greeks back then. The Greek and Roman civilizations are only claimable by Greeks and Romans, not by the rest of Europe, who were still wandering around in bear clothes, without a simple clue of how the world looked liked. The Middle East on other hand knows various civilizations since the Sumerians.

Actually no, they had their own coins, economy also they knew how to farm and build sophisticated structures (a need in the winters). Calling them barbarians is oversimplification, and mostly Roman propaganda which sought to dehumanize their enemies. Keep in mind Persians were also called barbarians by the Greeks.

Also they were great fighters - the Roman army was teeming with mercenaries from the north.

 

[A1Kaid]

Depends on who you ask , many whites in north America accept Persians as white (westerner)

... Trust me, if they know what a Persian is a carpet, cat, or person they will think Middle Eastern not Western. To common everyday American at first "West" or "Western" means California, to educated Americans "Western" means US, Canada, Europe, and Australia & NZ...

 

[INDIC]

Iranians are most certainly white people. They are the cousins of "Aryans" in Indian history that invaded Indian subcontinent, created Hinduism and caste system that attempted to separate its own people from the Australoid native people of India.

Genetic studies don't support the crap you just claimed. Every Indian was found with 35-70% of ANI genes, even remote tribes have those genes. they intermarried with ASI, genetic studies shows caste system only goes back to 100BC.

The Earliest Sanskrit of Hindu text Rigveda has lots of influence from Dravidian language.

 

[Kambojaric]

Europe has had important absolute monarchies till very recent times. The Bourbon dynasty ruled France till the 1800s. The German monarchy ruled Germany till towards the end of WW1. Greece was ruled by kings mostly all the time.

True, and yet Liberalism was on the rise throughout Europe, and Liberals saw the ancient Greeks as their cultural ancestors. There is a renewed interest in Greek philosophy (Aristotle, Plato) and Greek architecture, there being no coincidence in the fact that many of Europe and Americas most predominant buildings have significant influences from ancient Greek architecture (e.g. the White House in Washington or the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin). There was no doubt a real fetish for ancient Greece in the intellectual classes of Europe at that time, leading to men like Lord Byron actually going to fight for the modern Greeks in their war of independence from the Ottoman Empire.

@ the OP. Meengla and scorpionx make valid points as well. They should all be considered together to better understand why Greece is considered part of the Western civilization whilst Persia is not.

Perhaps because Greece is European and Persian is Middle eastern, it's simply derived from their geographical origins.

That does not necessarily have to be the case. Israel and even Australia are considered part of Western civilization even though geographically speaking they are not part of Europe or North America.

 

[American_Millenium]

'The West' or 'Western' is a artificial term. The Greeks never called themselves Westerners, nor did the Germans called themselves Greeks back then. The Greek and Roman civilizations are only claimable by Greeks and Romans, not by the rest of Europe, who were still wandering around in bear clothes, without a simple clue of how the world looked liked. The Middle East on other hand knows various civilizations since the Sumerians.

Western is just as much an artificial term as Middle Eastern. There was no such thing as Middle Eastern civilization, it's an artificial term, they never labelled themselves 'middle eastern', etc.

Also, these supposed barbarians have shown the world their strength. Your world is dominated by these 'barbarians'! You live in one of these barbarian cities.

Another dumb American...

Dumbo, Greece and Rome were both Mediterranean Civilizations who LATER passed their civilization to the savage tribes that constituted the majority of Western world.

Middle-East didn't have 'tribes' but civilizations. Earliest writing systems, languages, drawings, symbols, cities, city-states, empires, and civilizations etc all arose in East/Middle-East and then transferred civilization and culture to uncivilized Western world...

Roman writing system was derived from Phoenicians for example...thats not just "barely" receiving anything....thats the basis of the intellectual space of Romans! And do I even need to mention numeric systems?

And I never claimed that Egypt was my civilization. What a joke!



Retard, I come to your country AND surpass YOU while competing in markets that are DESIGNED to HELP you. Go figure how pathetically dumb you sound.

Also, what I have written is factual. You can't argue against it. So, like a typical white dumbo, you come out and say "oh you in my country saying..Omg, we the bestttttt..blah blah blah"...

There is no such thing as middle eastern civilization dumbo, and there was no such thing as 'Mediterranean' civilizations. They are considered the founding peoples of Western Civilization for a reason.

Retard, I come to your country AND surpass YOU while competing in markets that are DESIGNED to HELP you. Go figure how pathetically dumb you sound.

By being drivers and street-sweepers you surpass the amazing achievements of our people? Just more proof of your intellectual inferiority (as if your quick emotional devolution wasn't already an indication).

 

[jaibi]

The phenomena is not because Civilisations are considered on their true geographical sense. In the Ancient World the civilisations in the Indus Valley and China and the Americas developed in relative seclusion; though there is evidence to show that the Indus Valley Civilisation actively traded with Egypt, the Phoneticians and perhaps even the Chinese civilisations.

There must two things considered here that I must stress upon:

First is the hypothesis of warfare: this was quite secluded, the Indus Valley Civilisation probably had little to no warfare within their society and even with the Aryan immigration their decay was more probably due to salination and drying of the ancient river system inbetween the Ganges and the Indus. Interestingly, the Babylonian kingdoms definitely knew of their existence yet never invaded it and this leads to some scholars to suggest that warfare in the ancient world was largely a defensive action.

Secondly, army warfare, that is in large numbers of armies and statehood, start from the Mesopotamian region, Iraq, and if you look at the geography you can see that it is not easily defendable and thus the stronger civilisations or city states (also the precursor development in Egypt with their 'anomes' along the river Nile and the Greek city-states) took to actively intergrate other rugs of the region thus creating the first known 'Empire'. The Greeks develped the first Colonising, they send their excess citizens to create colonies which enjoy a relatively free control from the parent city-state but keep paying small tribuntes for support.

Now as these developments take place and the social set up becomes more and more massive to support there is an active adoption of civics and military knowledge. This spills over into cultural exchange by which eventually by the Middle ages Europeans start to dictate their 'Western' bases (Starting from Greek civilisation) and the rest they label as the East (mainly ME). That narrative has been sustained and therefore you have the Western civilisation and Eastern civilisation discourse.

 

[elis]

I smell someone obsessed with Iran here

 

[Audio]

Ignore the rants of immigrants crying about years times gone. That's all they have....cries and wailing.
Oh and, a not very good knowledge of the culture that ultimately subdued them.

 

[Superboy]

Maybe they are considered Western because their descendants proudly consider themselves Westerners?

Because they are of European descent, and share the same genetic and ancestral lineages as other Europeans?

Because they share the same linguistic ancestry, and today cultural and traditional ancestry as well?

Rome and Greece are obviously the centers of Western Civilization, and Iranian Civilization was descended from where exactly? You tell me if you're smart enough to know, because I certainly do.



What was the eye color of Buddha again? I forgot... could you remind me again?

The Digha Nikaya, in the "Discourse of the Marks" (Pali: Lakkhaṇa Sutta) (DN 30) enumerates and explains the 32 characteristics:

29. Eyes deep blue

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Greek and Roman more close related to Persian than they are to say Celtic or Germanic? Greek and Roman had dark hair and eyes and olive skin, certainly not northern European looks. Even today's Italians are predominantly Mediterranean look rather than northern European in appearance. Linguistically, Persian is Indo European as well. The concept of a European continent is modern and not a classical concept. Ancient Greeks and Romans certainly didn't consider northern European tribes as civilized and being their equals. Furthermore, it annoys me to no end when people talk about English letters. They are not English letters. They are Roman letters which were adapted from Greek letters which were adapted from Phoenician letters which were the very first alphabets. As for Buddha, whether such a person ever existed is up for debate. In other words, no proof.