Why Waziristan cannot be conquered

[Zarvan]

You are funny my friend as too much exaggeration there in attempt of glorifying talibans lol. We are not talking about tribal people here but we are talking about talibans and TTP radical groups who engage in anti-Pakistan activities and terrorism. They use suicide bombing and bomb blasts because they feel helpless against drones and against army which they cannot fight a conventional war. You need to understand that no one can conquer people yea you can take over land and can develop rule in there either by using force/violence or by consent of local people but still you can not rule on heart of people or you cannot subdue them without their will no matter how strong/powerful you are and its true for everyone not just tribal people

Talibans take advantage of terrain in Afghanistan and tribal region of Pakistan but still tribes people fought against each others more than they fought against outsider. I have witnesses the bloody wars between Afridi and shinwari tribe in khyber region. I dont get when you say talibans destroyed USSR . Taliban never invaded USSR but USSR invaded Afghanistan and they got withdrew because different groups in Afghanistan were united and had support of Pakistan/USA and many other countries.

Where they got weapons from to fight with USSR or your talibans fought with USSR barehanded? You say they destroyed USSR but in fact infrastructure of Afghanistan got destroyed after invasion of USSR. USA left the region after using talibani passion for jihad against communist kafirs lol and then talibans got in power in most areas of Afghanistan and got busy killing each others to develop their version of shria in Afghanistan instead of concentrate more on welfare and development of country and people.

Now where is their rule/ruler/mullah/Calipha after US invasion? Why they cannot maintain their rule in Afghanistan? What destruction they brought to USA because people in USA are still living in peace while all mess is there in Afghanistan and Pakistan where local innocent people are getting trap between religious mullah and NATO forces and paying the price . In Afghanistan its local afghan army fighting with Talibans and in Pakistan its Pakistan army vs TTP so USA/Nato forces are very much safe. Compare the number of local innocent people got killed in Afghanistan and Pakistan and compare it with number of NATO soldiers got killed in the hands of Taliban and I cannot do anything if you still prefer to live in delusion

sir for your kind information they have always fought like this and defeated superpowers most Americans are now accepting defeat but you seem to be more loyal to Americans than they. are to themselves USA and NATO forces are of. safe they arebeing hunted on daily bases sir they are fighting against super power sir they will face casualties but USA economy has reached its edge and nnowusais begging talibanfor talks so you need to stop being delusional

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

sir for your kind information they have always fought like this and defeated superpowers most Americans are now accepting defeat but you seem to be more loyal to Americans than they. are to themselves USA and NATO forces are of. safe they arebeing hunted on daily bases sir they are fighting against super power sir they will face casualties but USA economy has reached its edge and nnowusais begging talibanfor talks so you need to stop being delusional

Sir where is Mullah Umar, Mullah zarvan and taliban regime in Afghanistan? Sir why they retreated if they were so powerful? Sir you seem more loyal to those who are fighting with your army men and killing your own people in suicide bombing and blasts? Sir what super power talibans did for welfare of people or for development of country? Sir how good was the economy and infrastructure of Afghanistan during taliban regime ? sir even those railways line and shagai/jamrud forts through khyber pass where built by kafirs. Sir if they are starting peace process and talks with talibas its because of betterment of local people who got trap between NATO and talibans. Sir many people darius I ,Alexander the Great , Genghis Khan and later Mongols Duwa, Qutlugh Khwaja and Kebek invaded this land? Sir many rulers have influenced on this land? sir when and how islam were introduced in this region? Sir please read this battle of jamroud in khyber region

Battle of Jamrud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[django]

Sir they are expert in making weapons themselves Sir AK 47 and other guns are produced in Tribal Areas even Machine Guns few years ago in some weapons exhibition in another country from Pakistan their were two stalls one from Pakistani Government I mean POF and HIT Taxila and one from Tribal areas

Well sir I beg to differ, the guns they produce are only for hunting purposes at best, as for the ak-47 you are refering too, they are probably more dangerous to the user than the enemy, for starters they have no accuracy and cannot cope with sustained firing, btw you know who bought gunsmith skills to the region ,it was a punjabi who had fled the sepoy rebellion, and as for your comments of the pashtuns decimating alexanders forces, this is complete and utter hogwash, I can talk about alexanders campaigns in remarkable detail, and i assure you he did not lose to the pashtuns and herodotus only mentions them briefly, there was resistance to Alexander in what is now afghanistan and kpk but it was from the dardic tribes of pak, and this resistance was brutally subdued

 

[RangerPK]

Developereo:
“” The problem is the ****** indoctrination in Pakistan and we must remove it from our people's minds. Whatever grievance or complaints people have, they must be handled within the law.””

You are so right!. Actually Islam needs a bit of restructuring. This means:
1. All references to Jihad may be deleted from the Holy Quran and all the Hadith.
2. All mosques to be shut down.
3. Beards should be officially banned in Pakistan.
4. All Pakistanis should be encouraged to enjoy a pint of beer or some tequila shots at least once a week.
5. Hejab should be a punishable offense for the ladies.

In about 2 years jehadi extremism will be erased form the memory.

If that is the case I might as well migrate to America then,

Where I can read Hadith and Quran freely.

Where I can go to mosques

Where I can keep a beard

Where I can choose not to drink alcohol

Where females in my family can wear hijab.

You can keep this crap vision to yourself.

 

[Secur]

@django

Can you explain the part of " Alexander's campaign " in some detail , mate ?

@Raja.Pakistani

Leave him alone , you are arguing with an " extremist " who will keep repeating the same thing again and again whilst you post credible facts and arguments . He's loyal to the psychopaths Taliban and other terrorists , instead of the state of Pakistan , he admires people who kill his own countrymen , behead and desecrate their bodies and blow themselves up in mosques , bazaars , CD shops , shrines , schools etc . For him , Taliban are the purest of Muslims and Pakistan army is an infidel . As for the winning part , I always inquire these people about the causalities suffered by the Soviet and American forces ( till now ) and compare it with their admired insurgents . I ask them to research why USSR left Afghanistan , not because they were defeated , but their economy went down the gutters and there was no reason left to fight an unwinnable war . If the kafir Americans didn't provide them with weapons and training in the Soviet war , there's a high chance that Afghans today would have had Chenkov or Vladimir at the end of their names because the comrades-in-Kabul themselves invited the Kremlin to take over Afghanistan .

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Its interesting to see that pakistanis here on this thread have taken afghanistan, tribals and pashtuns as adversaries and are defending and advocating imperialists like british, russia and America, many members here are living in western countries and are truely serving them...Moreover desi sipahis fought bravely for british empire against pashtuns, they recieved medals from them.

Any how what makes pakhtun deadly is his mental strength, resolve and fearlessness. One air strike of F-16 on himaliyan mountains of punjab and you have them subdued for generations....talibans, whether they are bad or good, are engaged with a very professional army in Pakistan and super power in afghanistan...i do not expect such resistance from people of sindh and punjab even if you erect korakoram mountains in their provinces for them to hide...they are not baloch who can not even combat FC, a paramilitary force.
The big question is why talibans are getting stronger day by day...if you humiliate a pashtun, he would take revenge for that...if you kill a pashtun, all the male members in his family would take revenge of his death...so its a chain reaction...each taliban death recruits his family members...each collateral damage brings fresh entries to the ranks of talibans.....revenge, badal is strongest part of pakhtun nature, those who have nothing to do with talibani ideology, join them to fullfill their revenge....
What is pakistan going to do with them? Nuke them?

 

[Zarvan]

Sir where is Mullah Umar, Mullah zarvan and taliban regime in Afghanistan? Sir why they retreated if they were so powerful? Sir you seem more loyal to those who are fighting with your army men and killing your own people in suicide bombing and blasts? Sir what super power talibans did for welfare of people or for development of country? Sir how good was the economy and infrastructure of Afghanistan during taliban regime ? sir even those railways line and shagai/jamrud forts through khyber pass where built by kafirs. Sir if they are starting peace process and talks with talibas its because of betterment of local people who got trap between NATO and talibans. Sir many people darius I ,Alexander the Great , Genghis Khan and later Mongols Duwa, Qutlugh Khwaja and Kebek invaded this land? Sir many rulers have influenced on this land? sir when and how islam were introduced in this region? Sir please read this battle of jamroud in khyber region

Battle of Jamrud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

sir they are not superpower evey superpower was able to enter. Afghanistan but never controlled it they were hunted just likt they are being hunted and at then all the superpowers became part f history British ended Russia broken and now USA REACHING its ennd and mullah Omar. is leading the fought and he is. very week still superoiiwer backed by 40 nations are begging him to talks because they know they can't win this war that is why theory are talking to Taliban becausebtalibban haavve beaten the hell out off them

 

[django]

Developereo:
“” The problem is the ****** indoctrination in Pakistan and we must remove it from our people's minds. Whatever grievance or complaints people have, they must be handled within the law.””

You are so right!. Actually Islam needs a bit of restructuring. This means:
1. All references to Jihad may be deleted from the Holy Quran and all the Hadith.
2. All mosques to be shut down.
3. Beards should be officially banned in Pakistan.
4. All Pakistanis should be encouraged to enjoy a pint of beer or some tequila shots at least once a week.
5. Hejab should be a punishable offense for the ladies.

In about 2 years jehadi extremism will be erased form the memory.

Well mr javed , we are a nation of momeen not of kafirs, you could put the sun in one hand of a pakistani and the moon in the other hand , and he would still not accept your bigotted vision

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Those who think that Pak army has conquered waziristan are forgetting some thing. Pak army was able to have some control there because it formed non-aggression pacts with three out of four factions of talibans...the four factions are
1- Haqqani network
2- Hafiz gul bahadur group
3- Maulvi nazir group
4- TTP
All the three pro-governament factions of talibans are operating in Afghanistan. Maulvi nazir got droned, his group is now led by bahawal khan. He was against attacks in Pakistan and had enemity with TTP , his death has caused lifting of pressure from TTP and nowadays they are very active against pak army..
Pak army had to form non-aggression pacts with talibans in waziristan, is it not a defeat?..what could have happened if all talibans were united against pak army?....
@Secur, @Raja.Pakistani , @Safriz

 

[Secur]

Its interesting to see that pakistanis here on this thread have taken afghanistan, tribals and pashtuns as adversaries and are defending and advocating imperialists like british, russia and America, many members here are living in western countries and are truely serving them...Moreover desi sipahis fought bravely for british empire against pashtuns, they recieved medals from them.

So sad it is , that you do not usually understand posts in their right context , no one here has defended the invasion of US or the arrival of USSR into Afghanistan on the request of the comrades-in-Kabul , it is a mere reminder to some people that their myth of being " unconquerable " as they have in their delusional minds isn't true and wasn't due to some extra ordinary strength or power but rather through mountainous terrain and asymmetric warfare techniques and foreign assistance and weapons that won their battles What if US hadn't provided the weapons in the Soviet war , what then , would the Afghans have won then ? We are seeing how they are faring against the US for now hiding in mountains away from Kabul , take control of the capital now if you are so what you claim " unbeatable " and what-not . Repetition of the facts of how many men did Soviets lost and how many have the Americans lost till now and comparison with the people killed in Afghanistan - both civilians and insurgents isn't supporting them , it is calling a spade a spade . USSR left because of other problems like economic decline due to over spending on military industry in response to the US , failed policies and not due to Afghan war , even though it was a major factor , that is also a fact . Exactly , what is it that you pride on ? Just tell me , your obsession with carrying guns and sticking with centuries old laws which makes tribes fight over small mountains or allows them to kill every male member of opposite family for the crime of one ? When will you guys in tribal areas learn to walk with civilization and make education and economic prosperity your first priority instead of these lethal weapons and some unwritten code ?

Stop this nonsensical claim of only " Pashtuns " are brave and everyone else is a coward , you guys talk like Afghanistan has never been conquered till now .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Central_Asia
Result Decisive Mongol victory, destruction of the Kara-Khitan Khanate and Khwarazmian dynasty
Territorial changes Mongol Empire gains control of the Kara-Khitai and Khwarezmia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jamrud
Result Sikh Victory
Territorial changes Khyber Pass

Pak army had to form non-aggression pacts with talibans in waziristan, is it not a defeat?..what could have happened if all talibans were united against pak army?....
@Secur, @Raja.Pakistani , @Safriz

No , that is something we know as " strategy " . Sometimes thinking with mind is more useful than acting in emotions . Why should we fight those who pose no threat to us ? What even if they were united , they would have met the same ends like those who took up weapon against the state of Pakistan .

 

[Zarvan]

So sad it is , that you do not usually understand posts in their right context , no one here has defended the invasion of US or the arrival of USSR into Afghanistan on the request of the comrades-in-Kabul , it is a mere reminder to some people that their myth of being " unconquerable " as they have in their delusional minds isn't true and wasn't due to some extra ordinary strength or power but rather through mountainous terrain and asymmetric warfare techniques and foreign assistance and weapons that won their battles What if US hadn't provided the weapons in the Soviet war , what then , would the Afghans have won then ? We are seeing how they are faring against the US for now hiding in mountains away from Kabul , take control of the capital now if you are so what you claim " unbeatable " and what-not . Repetition of the facts of how many men did Soviets lost and how many have the Americans lost till now and comparison with the people killed in Afghanistan - both civilians and insurgents isn't supporting them , it is calling a spade a spade . USSR left because of other problems like economic decline due to over spending on military industry in response to the US , failed policies and not due to Afghan war , even though it was a major factor , that is also a fact . Exactly , what is it that you pride on ? Just tell me , your obsession with carrying guns and sticking with centuries old laws which makes tribes fight over small mountains or allows them to kill every male member of opposite family for the crime of one ? When will you guys in tribal areas learn to walk with civilization and make education and economic prosperity your first priority instead of these lethal weapons and some unwritten code ?

Stop this nonsensical claim of only " Pashtuns " are brave and everyone else is a coward , you guys talk like Afghanistan has never been conquered till now .

Mongol invasion of Central Asia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Result Decisive Mongol victory, destruction of the Kara-Khitan Khanate and Khwarazmian dynasty
Territorial changes Mongol Empire gains control of the Kara-Khitai and Khwarezmia

Battle of Jamrud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Result Sikh Victory
Territorial changes Khyber Pass



No , that is something we know as " strategy " . Sometimes thinking with mind is more useful than acting in emotions . Why should we fight those who pose no threat to us ? What even if they were united , they would have met the same ends like those who took up weapon against the state of Pakistan .

Sir for your information stop coming up with funny and pathetic statistics Afghanistan was never a super power still they have defeated and destroyed super powers Sir Alexandar got beaten up here Mughals had a beating here British made part of history and than USSR and now USA is on its edge and thousands of them have been hunted down many have lost their limbs still afghans are fighting and its USA who is begging for talks Sir they left due to afghan war and this war will destroy USA soon

 

[ShahidT]

Sir for your information stop coming up with funny and pathetic statistics Afghanistan was never a super power still they have defeated and destroyed super powers Sir Alexandar got beaten up here Mughals had a beating here British made part of history and than USSR and now USA is on its edge and thousands of them have been hunted down many have lost their limbs still afghans are fighting and its USA who is begging for talks Sir they left due to afghan war and this war will destroy USA soon

do you know from an anthropological, historical perspective, it is very questionable whether pashtuns had yet migrated to areas east of kabul around the time of alexander's invasion? the people he fought 'here', meaning this side of khyber pass, were actually the indigenous dards, hunzas, hindkowan groups, all descendents of vedic peoples. but I don't want to bore you with facts and science, you are our resident, revisionist mullah after all.

who has gained and who has lost in all this war and bloodshed over afghanistan? ignoring the mughals who had no settled civilization they could trace their origins back to, the greeks, brits, russians and americans have all progressed immensely since their ill-conceived forays into this region. despite failing to take over these lands, they developed their cities, their technological capabilities, invented many things we take for granted and are the pinnacle of scientific research and modernity in today's world.

but look at us proud and brave warriors of alam e Islam, we know how to fight and defend ourselves but no focus on rebuilding our past glory. Especially the arabs, persians and subcontinent, from where europeans derived their science and mathematics, are now so far behind that you can't help but feel profound sadness at how things have turned out.

 

[Zarvan]

do you know from an anthropological, historical perspective, it is very questionable whether pashtuns had yet migrated to areas east of kabul around the time of alexander's invasion? the people he fought 'here', meaning this side of khyber pass, were actually the indigenous dards, hunzas, hindkowan groups, all descendents of vedic peoples. but I don't want to bore you with facts and science, you are our resident, revisionist mullah after all.

who has gained and who has lost in all this war and bloodshed over afghanistan? ignoring the mughals who had no settled civilization they could trace their origins back to, the greeks, brits, russians and americans have all progressed immensely since their ill-conceived forays into this region. despite failing to take over these lands, they developed their cities, their technological capabilities, invented many things we take for granted and are the pinnacle of scientific research and modernity in today's world.

but look at us proud and brave warriors of alam e Islam, we know how to fight and defend ourselves but no focus on rebuilding our past glory. Especially the arabs, persians and subcontinent, from where europeans derived their science and mathematics, are now so far behind that you can't help but feel profound sadness at how things have turned out.

they were their sir and they defeated British and USSR and now USA

 

[Wright]

they were their sir and they defeated British and USSR and now USA

I really liked this post, I hope th OP doesn't mind me using it.

Lesson history
chapter number 0093
​

Moscow capital of Russia
​

London capital of great British​

Washington DC capital of USA ​

KABUL capital of Afghanistan . yes its grave yard i agreee​

results - that's what a genius called graveyard of empires

 

[Zarvan]

I really liked this post, I hope th OP doesn't mind me using it.

yes and with all this might still they got defeated by Taliban which live shame on them