Why was the Awami League not allowed to form government in 1971?

[roadrunner]

Regarding the private investment, yes you take the profit after you pay taxes and the foreign currency goes to govt state bank. Nobody was asking money from Adamjee but from Central govt which it collected from Adamjee.

Then where was the problem at all?

So Adamjee's Jute Mills export lots of Jute from East Pak, and the money goes to Adamjee in West Pakistan.

So when looking at figures of total exports from East Pak and government spending on East Pak, the two figures will not coincide. Because export includes private investment figures, but government spending does not.

Let's say Adamjee and lots of West Pakistani investors decided to invest lots of money in East Pak because there was better infrastructure there from colonial times. What happens now? Should the government try and redress the balance by increasing spending into West Pakistan to develop West Pak's industries that the private investors are ignoring? Why ignore the inequality in West Pakistan?

This is simple equation, and that is no rocket science..
Also you are mentioning only Adamjee and some other jute mills but we had hundreds of jute mills owned by both east and west pakistanis and only the central govt mostly used to collect the revenue from those.
Also E. PK mostly exported raw jutes which used to go to the central bank only in W. Pak.

The biggest jute mill in East Pakistan was owned by Adamjee as far as I know.

 

[TopCat]

Then where was the problem at all?

So Adamjee's Jute Mills export lots of Jute from East Pak, and the money goes to Adamjee in West Pakistan.

So when looking at figures of total exports from East Pak and government spending on East Pak, the two figures will not coincide. Because export includes private investment figures, but government spending does not.

Let's say Adamjee and lots of West Pakistani investors decided to invest lots of money in East Pak because there was better infrastructure there from colonial times. What happens now? Should the government try and redress the balance by increasing spending into West Pakistan to develop West Pak's industries that the private investors are ignoring? Why ignore the inequality in West Pakistan?



The biggest jute mill in East Pakistan was owned by Adamjee as far as I know.

Why you are bringing private investment again and again. I already explained that. We had jute, tea, timber the most lucrative businesss at that time and a lot of private investor flocked here which was good. No problem with that. There was a vacum as E. Bengal lost most of the jute industry in and around calcutta in 1947. That made it easy for W. Pakistani business men who were mostly unaffected by partision to come here and expoit it.

It was about public investment. Brother there were serious inequality, if you come to BD i could show you, the only thing Pakistan did in E. Pakistan was one Rail station, another building called our Parliament Building which we had to complete after 71. Few industries were done, mainly one newsprint mill, one cement factory, one steel mill, one hydrau electric power plant 100 MW, few gas fired power plant may be all together 300 MW capacity. 3 half complete University.
There were no investment in mass Education, Healthcare, infrastructure, roads, rail, food production which really matters to the ordinary people.

For a country of 70 million people these were just megre. people saw no hope in future as the situation were deteriorating day by day.
Second the self respect which were lost thremendously due to the behaviours of W. Pak leadership. This is a quote from a Major (then) Moinul Hossein who mutinate on 19th march (the first mutineer who took over 2 cantonment and the ordinance factory) "We just joined freedom fight for patriotism, simple faith and self respect, there were no complicated politics involved"

My old laundry men in my university (he is dead now and peace be upon him) told me once "The first saheb was punjabis second were biharis and the third were bengalis". He was just a laundry men and even he had that feelings. These kind of feelings just did not come because Mujib asked for Vote. I had to quote those people as I was not born then.

The 6 point demand was rejected by Mujib and AL working comittee at first and it took a while to get that accepted by AL. These 6 point demands were the demand of mass people.

 

[TopCat]

Once again I am getting a respond from an emotionally charged individual with low self esteem. You clearly can not think with logic and confined in the box mentality. If I wanted to represent myself as a Pakistani than I could have easily blend in and probably no one would have notice it nonetheless There is nothing wrong with Pakistani or Pakistanyat. Its a culture based on two nation theory and I am a honest believer of that concept. you can only be true and legitimate claimants of your family if you can trace your forefathers.

Low self esteem !!!!! Me??? wow thats a good invention.. hahahahahah

That two nation theory was adopted by overwhelming bengalis not because they can create a fanatic Pakistan but to get rid of Hindu Jamindar's repression. Now my question is why that enthusiasm just vanished in Fog???

Just because some one pray five times a day that won't make him a true Muslims if he or she actively support and practice anti-Islamic culture. Islam is way of life rather than confined in ritual practice. Just because I happen to born in Bengal that doesn't necessary mean that I have embrace everything that flows into that land. Reminiscence of uncultured civilization inherit from Hinduism still exist today and unfortunate enough some so called Muslim practice it with pride and would like to halalize it in the name of Bengali culture.

Well Pakistan came into existence through the struggle of those hindu cultured muslims. That is how we are and that is how we be proud of. Thats the uniqueness made us different and have an independent country with self respect and prosperity.

 

[roadrunner]

Why you are bringing private investment again and again. I already explained that. We had jute, tea, timber the most lucrative businesss at that time and a lot of private investor flocked here which was good. No problem with that. There was a vacum as E. Bengal lost most of the jute industry in and around calcutta in 1947. That made it easy for W. Pakistani business men who were mostly unaffected by partision to come here and expoit it.

It was about public investment. Brother there were serious inequality,

I don't want to go through all that. This will be enough. This is where you are incorrect.

Private investment and public investment are intertwined.

Say I have a country with good infrastructure, and another country with a lot less infrastructure. I am the ruler. What do I do?

I see the private investors putting in billions of dollars into my good infrastructure land. The exports are high, I am getting good taxes from those private investors also. Very good. But what is happening to my other country, it's useless, noone is investing there. I could get a lot more money if private investors found my second country a good investment. So what do I do?

I invest my (government) money into the second country to EQUALIZE its infrastructure, education etc with my booming first country. That way the people get better opportunities and I make more money.

I'd like you (or anyone else), to explain how this is not the right thing to do?

 

[rubyjackass]

Bengali, PUnjabi, Sindhi, could not have unified the country. You think Sindhi, or PUnjabi is of a lower value, as a language, than Bengali?

Urdu/Hindustani had been the lingua franca of India, even though those from the south and east of the subcontinent are loath to admit it.

It was also the language of prominent muslim, islamic scholarship, the language of discourse for muslims from different linguistic backgrounds, be they Telugu, Malayalam, Gujurati, Bengali, Punjabi or Pashtun. How you do not recognise this, is beyond me.

None of the early leaders of Pakistan was an ethnic Urdu speaker, so it cannot be said that there was any prejudice in favour of the Urdu language. Even now, in my city, I converse with Bangladeshis in Urdu. Just had a conversation with one yesterday. That is because it is still the lingua franca of Pakistan, India, Bengladesh, Nepal and Afghanistan.

This is the kind of arrogance that led to the post-independence language movements in India and Pakistan. Just because a language is spoken by majority does not mean the linguistic minorities have to make their pleas in an imposed language. Especially when they are of sizable numbers. So you people will neglect the languages of minorities but they have to learn it to talk to you?

This applies for all people who honk about hindustani being lingua franca... That does not apply for the whole of India. If many people speak some variant of hindustani then so be it. Why do you want to rub your language on others?


Remember what happened in India starting in the 50s and till the trifurcation of Punjab. What happened with Pakistan, remember Bangladesh. People cannot forget their language just because majority wants unity. This kind of unity is preached by people blinded by a superiority complex about their language.
Firstly any such a unity is artificial. And when you are striving for such a unity by appealing to other similarities of culture, it is the responsibility of the majority to respect the minorities and and their language. The only way is to have all languages with sizable population as official languages and celebrate the diversity. Instead the formula tried post independence was the culling of other languages. And the advocates of this formula duly got their lesson from history.


This is for all hindi/urdu speakers who arrogantly claim Hindustani is the language and make comments like 'Desh ko hum chalaate hain'.

The Desh was made possible because of the restraint of linguistic minorities.

It was also the language of prominent muslim, islamic scholarship, the language of discourse for muslims from different linguistic backgrounds, be they Telugu, Malayalam, Gujurati, Bengali, Punjabi or Pashtun. How you do not recognise this, is beyond me.

This is the exact sentimental formula that worked finally for the language movements to subside. Say we are all muslims and urdu has been Islam's language.
I dont think it is the sanctity of language that was preserved in Islam, it was the script.
It turned out that, for the popularity of Islam in India, teachings in local language was essential. That is what they adopted when muslims introduced Islam into India, they taught in urdu.

 

[TopCat]

I don't want to go through all that. This will be enough. This is where you are incorrect.

Private investment and public investment are intertwined.

Say I have a country with good infrastructure, and another country with a lot less infrastructure. I am the ruler. What do I do?

I see the private investors putting in billions of dollars into my good infrastructure land. The exports are high, I am getting good taxes from those private investors also. Very good. But what is happening to my other country, it's useless, noone is investing there. I could get a lot more money if private investors found my second country a good investment. So what do I do?

I invest my (government) money into the second country to EQUALIZE its infrastructure, education etc with my booming first country. That way the people get better opportunities and I make more money.

I'd like you (or anyone else), to explain how this is not the right thing to do?

What do you mean by good infrastructure?? When did PK invested in infrastructure in Bengal. PK were working on to build new capital Islamabad whereas people were dying here in East Pakistan through starvation.

 

[roadrunner]

What do you mean by good infrastructure?? When did PK invested in infrastructure in Bengal. PK were working on to build new capital Islamabad whereas people were dying here in East Pakistan through starvation.

The infrastructure of Bengal, including East Bengal was developed to a much greater extent than that of West Pakistan.

Industries, education system. The people of East Pakistan had more opportunities than those in West Pakistan.

You saw Pakistan's ability to cope with a large scale natural crisis like the earthquake in 2005. What makes you think 30 years ago Pakistan would have been any better?

Anyhow, I'd like to know how what I posted was not the right thing to do for any government. To equalize out the infrastructural disparities due to private investment flocking to East Pakistan.

 

[TopCat]

This is the kind of arrogance that led to the post-independence language movements in India and Pakistan. Just because a language is spoken by majority does not mean the linguistic minorities have to make their pleas in an imposed language. Especially when they are of sizable numbers. So you people will neglect the languages of minorities but they have to learn it to talk to you?

This applies for all people who honk about hindustani being lingua franca... That does not apply for the whole of India. If many people speak some variant of hindustani then so be it. Why do you want to rub your language on others?


Remember what happened in India starting in the 50s and till the trifurcation of Punjab. What happened with Pakistan, remember Bangladesh. People cannot forget their language just because majority wants unity. This kind of unity is preached by people blinded by a superiority complex about their language.
Firstly any such a unity is artificial. And when you are striving for such a unity by appealing to other similarities of culture, it is the responsibility of the majority to respect the minorities and and their language. The only way is to have all languages with sizable population as official languages and celebrate the diversity. Instead the formula tried post independence was the culling of other languages. And the advocates of this formula duly got their lesson from history.


This is for all hindi/urdu speakers who arrogantly claim Hindustani is the language and make comments like 'Desh ko hum chalaate hain'.

The Desh was made possible because of the restraint of linguistic minorities.


This is the exact sentimental formula that worked finally for the language movements to subside. Say we are all muslims and urdu has been Islam's language.
I dont think it is the sanctity of language that was preserved in Islam, it was the script.
It turned out that, for the popularity of Islam in India, teachings in local language was essential. That is what they adopted when muslims introduced Islam into India, they taught in urdu.

Bengali was never a minority language. It was majority language in Pakistan and almost similar in volume as Hindi in undevided India. Hindi and Bengali always were competing as well as complementary language. Urdu was not a language altogether rather a sub fraction of Hindi with few more words from Arabic and Farsi with arabic alphabet.
There is no way anybody would accept Urdu over Bengali neither they will accept Hindi. No option at all. We might had serious discontent in accepting Hindi if were still with India. W. Bengal, Tripura, NE india all celebrates 21st February with us all the time .

 

[TopCat]

The infrastructure of Bengal, including East Bengal was developed to a much greater extent than that of West Pakistan.

Industries, education system. The people of East Pakistan had more opportunities than those in West Pakistan.

You saw Pakistan's ability to cope with a large scale natural crisis like the earthquake in 2005. What makes you think 30 years ago Pakistan would have been any better?

Anyhow, I'd like to know how what I posted was not the right thing to do for any government. To equalize out the infrastructural disparities due to private investment flocking to East Pakistan.

You did not answer my question of building a new capital...
was it part of human development??

 

[roadrunner]

You did not answer my question of building a new capital...
was it part of human development??

Look you're avoiding my question.

But so that you have to answer it let me answer you.

The central government did spend money on West Pakistan. Now presumably you are talking about the cyclones and flooding that hit East Pakistan. They were not ignored by the central government. Pakistan did not have enough resources to cope with the scale of the crises. Is that a satisfactory answer?

Had the same crises hit West Pakistan, the same poor response from the central government would have been given, because Pakistan was an still is an underdeveloped nation. Look at what happened in Muzafferabad in 2005. An earthquake and Pakistan was unable to cope. Yes, people did die unecessarily in that also. They were West Pakistanis.

Now could you answer my question, since I have answered yours in this?

 

[TopCat]

Look you're avoiding my question.

But so that you have to answer it let me answer you.

The central government did spend money on West Pakistan. Now presumably you are talking about the cyclones and flooding that hit East Pakistan. They were not ignored by the central government. Pakistan did not have enough resources to cope with the scale of the crises. Is that a satisfactory answer?

Had the same crises hit West Pakistan, the same poor response from the central government would have been given, because Pakistan was an still is an underdeveloped nation. Look at what happened in Muzafferabad in 2005. An earthquake and Pakistan was unable to cope. Yes, people did die unecessarily in that also. They were West Pakistanis.

Now could you answer my question, since I have answered yours in this?

To answer your question, yes you are right on that as you need to pump more money in least developed area. But it has to come through transparent process without keeping other side in dark. If the other sides starts thinking of partiality and nepotism then there is a serious flaws in the system. The only way you could bring that transparency is through democracy and more participation from Eastern part of the country and to get them involved in decission making in pumping those money. Those could be discussed in parliament and debated but those kind of process were never present in Pakistan.

 

[DarkStar]

To answer your question, yes you are right on that as you need to pump more money in least developed area. But it has to come through transparent process without keeping other side in dark. If the other sides starts thinking of partiality and nepotism then there is a serious flaws in the system. The only way you could bring that transparency is through democracy and more participation from Eastern part of the country and to get them involved in decission making in pumping those money. Those could be discussed in parliament and debated but those kind of process were never present in Pakistan.

You are not aware of the state of West Pakistan at the tiem of Partition.

While there were schools and universities abundant in Bengal, as they were the first to embrace English Education, there was an equivalent dearth of schools and colleges in West Pakistan. And that's just countin gthe PUnjab. If you looked further at NWFP, Sindh, and Baluchistan, the situation was even worse. The few institutions that were there were those that used to serve the Elite Hindu and Christian communities.

Most of the businesses, commerce, INdustry had been in control of the Hindus and Sikhs, and the Musilms of this area had been in an abysmal state ever since Sikh rule in the late 18th century. The British offered no real respite, except jobs in the Army.

West Pakistan was illiterate, and should have remained so? The few schools that were built to educate the illitterate masses of West Pakistan should be grudged, while Bengalis were already enjoying the fruits of Education, with them heavily represented (more than their relative population) in every civil service department, and government?

 

[rubyjackass]

Bengali was never a minority language. It was majority language in Pakistan and almost similar in volume as Hindi in undevided India. Hindi and Bengali always were competing as well as complementary language. Urdu was not a language altogether rather a sub fraction of Hindi with few more words from Arabic and Farsi with arabic alphabet.
There is no way anybody would accept Urdu over Bengali neither they will accept Hindi. No option at all. We might had serious discontent in accepting Hindi if were still with India. W. Bengal, Tripura, NE india all celebrates 21st February with us all the time .

I was talking about undivided India. And those people who talk about unity. Majority or minority nobody should impose a language on others. All states in India have their own day to celebrate their language; it became the state formation day for the corresponding state in some cases. Today, in India, most people in the north think that the language movements were separatism and that they are the mainstream India.

These people even succeeded in making some people of southern states apologetic about their language movements. May be because they lacked the perspective that nations have formed based on this discontent.
If there were no language movements, there would be one continuous India with Hindi as sole official language. All the preservation of culture could not have been possible.

back to topic...

 

[TopCat]

I was talking about undivided India. And those people who talk about unity. Majority or minority nobody should impose a language on others. All states in India have their own day to celebrate their language; it became the state formation day for the corresponding state in some cases. Today, in India, most people in the north think that the language movements were separatism and that they are the mainstream India.

These people even succeeded in making some people of southern states apologetic about their language movements. May be because they lacked the perspective that nations have formed based on this discontent.
If there were no language movements, there would be one continuous India with Hindi as sole official language. All the preservation of culture could not have been possible.

back to topic...

Well you are not comparing Apple to Apple. W. Pak did honor Bangla as the state language even from the very begining as like as India but not the official language of Federal Pakistan. They insisted Urdu be the only official language of whole Pakistan which were unacceptable to Bengalis. Later they accepted and Urdu/Bengali/English was made as official language of Pakistan.

In India Hindi/English is the official language not the other ones.

 

[TopCat]

You are not aware of the state of West Pakistan at the tiem of Partition.

While there were schools and universities abundant in Bengal, as they were the first to embrace English Education, there was an equivalent dearth of schools and colleges in West Pakistan. And that's just countin gthe PUnjab. If you looked further at NWFP, Sindh, and Baluchistan, the situation was even worse. The few institutions that were there were those that used to serve the Elite Hindu and Christian communities.

Most of the businesses, commerce, INdustry had been in control of the Hindus and Sikhs, and the Musilms of this area had been in an abysmal state ever since Sikh rule in the late 18th century. The British offered no real respite, except jobs in the Army.

West Pakistan was illiterate, and should have remained so? The few schools that were built to educate the illitterate masses of West Pakistan should be grudged, while Bengalis were already enjoying the fruits of Education, with them heavily represented (more than their relative population) in every civil service department, and government?

Well you are just putting phrase to discard my point. Money was not spent on those areas of your as NWFP, Sindh, and Baluchistan and not for human development. Money were going to the elites of W. Pakistan, they even started building Islamabad. Also money was spent on Army which has no presence in E. Pakistan. There were wholesale protest against 22 famillies in Pakistan (who were they)?
Again I say, those spending were not transparent to the people of E. Pakistan and were hugely controversial. Political parties as always try to exploit those situtation and thats how politics is all about.