Why to be proud of being a Pakistani

[FreekiN]

For 9 years Pakistan & Pakistanis suffered from a Military dictatorship under the administration of Gen Pervez Musharraf.

Too many opinions, man. We did not suffer anything from him.

 

[Nalwa]

So that means your father and mother America and Israel are not Secular countries. America was made on Christian values and Israel was made as a homeland for jews but they are still secular. We welcome every other religion it doesn't matter if Pakistan was made for muslims. I'm more of a Christian than a Muslim but that doesn't mean another Muslim is more superior than me or I'm less patriotic than him/her.
And this blasphemy law was made by a corrupt fundie dictator named Zia ul Haq.

So kindly get that through your head.

Watch your language. Did I bring in your family into it? If you cant debate logically without making personal comments why debate at all? It shows the level of your education and your intellect.

And good point about America and Israel. The thing is America doesnt claim to be the champion of the Christian world or the flag-bearer of the Christian brotherhood. It doesnt raise a cry of Jihad, self-serving of course, to expand their own political agendas in neighboring countries. Using Islam for political ends is what distinguishes Pakistan and makes it a non-equal state for all religions.

And maybe the blasphemy laws were made by Zia, but its been more than two decades since he died. Did anybody try and repeal them? I thought Mushy idolized Mustafa Kemal. He couldnt follow a secular path and repeal these barbaric medival laws, could he?

 

[ares]

So that means your father and mother America and Israel are not Secular countries. America was made on Christian values and Israel was made as a homeland for jews but they are still secular. We welcome every other religion it doesn't matter if Pakistan was made for muslims. I'm more of a Christian than a Muslim but that doesn't mean another Muslim is more superior than me or I'm less patriotic than him/her.
And this blasphemy law was made by a corrupt fundie dictator named Zia ul Haq.

So kindly get that through your head.

Do you even know the meaning of word the secular..it is complete separation of the Church(so to speak ) and the state.

In secular state one doesnot have objectives resolution(state favoring one religion over the other )

In a secular state there are no blasphemy laws which though some of you oppose for lip service but can't/don't want to repeal.

and as a trend which is seen in most secular state is minorities flourish... which is not the case within pakistan where minority population has seen significant decline in last 60yrs .

 

[Water Car Engineer]

1971 War

The enemy Invaded again - leaving Pakistan with an unforgettable wound.

1971


Operation Chengiz Khan

was the code name assigned to the pre-emptive strikes carried out by the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) on the forward airbases and radar installations of the Indian Air Force (IAF) on the evening of 3 December 1971, and marked the formal initiation of hostilities of the Indo-Pakistani war of 1971.

 

[Karachiite]

Do you even know the meaning of word the secular..it is complete separation of the Church(so to speak ) and the state.

In secular state one doesnot have objectives resolution(state favoring one religion over the other )

In a secular state there are no blasphemy laws which though some of you oppose for lip service but can't/don't want to repeal.

and as a trend which is seen in most secular state is minorities flourish... which is not the case within pakistan where minority population has seen significant decline in last 60yrs .

I know the meaning of secularism. I did not say Pakistan is 100% secular, I said that Pakistan's founder's vision was for Pakistan to be secular.

Yes ofcourse minorities are flourishing in the so called secular state of India where muslims are killed for slaughtering cows and genocides are enforced by politicians.
And please give me facts about the minorities in Pakistan declining, thank you.

 

[Karachiite]

Watch your language. Did I bring in your family into it? If you cant debate logically without making personal comments why debate at all? It shows the level of your education and your intellect.

And good point about America and Israel. The thing is America doesnt claim to be the champion of the Christian world or the flag-bearer of the Christian brotherhood. It doesnt raise a cry of Jihad, self-serving of course, to expand their own political agendas in neighboring countries. Using Islam for political ends is what distinguishes Pakistan and makes it a non-equal state for all religions.

And maybe the blasphemy laws were made by Zia, but its been more than two decades since he died. Did anybody try and repeal them? I thought Mushy idolized Mustafa Kemal. He couldnt follow a secular path and repeal these barbaric medival laws, could he?

How exactly does Pakistan use Islam for political reasons?

And Musharraf actually repealed most of the barbaric laws made by Zia. He even removed the name Islamic from Pakistani passports and the aftermath was mullahs going wild. The only reason why the blasphemy law hasn't been removed yet is because of the backlash by Mullahs.

India is a secular state right? Then why aren't Muslims allowed to slaughter cows on Eid?

 

[Nalwa]

How exactly does Pakistan use Islam for political reasons?

Two words Afghanistan and Kashmir. Pakistan waived the banner of Islamic Jihad to achieve strategic goals. In the case of the former it was with the help of a western power and even some underhand Israeli help in the form of light AAA guns early in the war. In Kashmir, Pakistan clearly has no real brotherly love or sympathy for the Kashmiris. It just wants to get back at India for what happened in '71.

And Musharraf actually repealed most of the barbaric laws made by Zia. He even removed the name Islamic from Pakistani passports and the aftermath was mullahs going wild. The only reason why the blasphemy law hasn't been removed yet is because of the backlash by Mullahs.

So who won in the end? Musharraf or the Mullahs? And dont delude yourself. Pakistan doesnt have the word secular anywhere in its constitution and you should learn to accept that.

India is a secular state right? Then why aren't Muslims allowed to slaughter cows on Eid?

Is India the topic here? Dont try and divert the debate.

 

[ares]

I know the meaning of secularism. I did not say Pakistan is 100% secular, I said that Pakistan's founder's vision was for Pakistan to be secular.

And please give me facts about the minorities in Pakistan declining, thank you.

Yes Jinnah envisioned a secular Pakistan(a point never accepted by pro- Islamic forces)..a state where Muslims were a majority but all that went down drain with adoption of objectives resolution in 1949 by Liaquat Ali Khan.Objectives Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Constitution of 1973 further reinforces Islamic(and not secular) ideology of pakistan.

With its

Islamic provisions

The name 'Islamic Republic of Pakistan' is selected for the state of Pakistan.
Islam is declared as the state religion of Pakistan.
Steps shall be taken to enable the Muslims of Pakistan, individually or collectively, to order their lives in accordance with the fundamental principles and basic concepts of Islam.
Steps shall be taken to make the teaching of the Qur'an and Islamiyat compulsory, to encourage and facilitate the learning of Arabic language and to secure correct and exact printing and publishing of the Qur'an.
Proper organisation of Zakat, waqf and mosques is ensured.
The state shall prevent prostitution, gambling and consumption of alcohol, printing, publication, circulation and display of obscene literature and advertisements.
Only a Muslim could be qualified for election as President (male or female) and Prime Minister (male or female). No restriction as to religion or gender on any other post, up to and including provincial governor and Chief Minister.
All existing laws shall be brought in conformity with the injunctions of Islam as laid down in the Qur'an and Sunnah and no law shall be enacted which is repugnant to such injunctions.
A Council of Islamic Ideology shall be constituted referred to as the Islamic Council. The functions of the Islamic Council shall be to make recommendations to Parliament and the Provincial Assemblies about the ways and means of enabling and encouraging the Muslims of the Pakistan to order their lives in accordance with the principles of Islam.
The President or the Governor of a province may, or if two-fifths of its total membership so requires, a House or a Provincial Assembly shall, refer to the Islamic Council for advice on any question as to whether a proposed law is or is not repugnant to the injunctions of Islam.
For the first time, the Constitution of Pakistan gave definition of a Muslim which states: 'Muslim' means a person who believes in the unity and oneness of Allah, in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophethood of the Islamic prophet, Muhammad, and does not believe in, or recognise as a prophet or religious reformer, any person who claimed or claims to be a prophet, in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever, after Muhammad.
The state shall endeavor to strengthen the bonds of unity among Muslim countries.
The Second Amendment (wef 17 September 1974) of the 1973 Constitution declared for the first time the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community (derogatorily known as Qadianis) or the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement for the Propagation of Islam (Lahoris) as non-Muslims, and their leader, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, who claimed to be prophet of God, to which mainstream Muslims do not agree with.

And introduction of blasphemy laws was the last nail in the coffin of Jinnah's vision of secular Pakistan.

At the time of partition minority population of pakistan was between 12-13% ..today it is less than 3%.http://www.minorityrights.org/?lid=5630&tmpl=printpage

 

[FreekiN]

Two words Afghanistan and Kashmir. Pakistan waived the banner of Islamic Jihad to achieve strategic goals. In the case of the former it was with the help of a western power and even some underhand Israeli help in the form of light AAA guns early in the war. In Kashmir, Pakistan clearly has no real brotherly love or sympathy for the Kashmiris. It just wants to get back at India for what happened in '71.

When many of us are Kashmiri such as myself, that really is a laughable statement.

So who won in the end? Musharraf or the Mullahs? And dont delude yourself. Pakistan doesnt have the word secular anywhere in its constitution and you should learn to accept that.

Actually, the military is quite secular now. And they have been from even before Zia. The last time someone was killed for Sharia was in Zia's time. That doesn't happen anymore and it wont. Aasia will not get a death sentence. Even a prison sentence will be surprising.

Mullahs do not and cannot overpower the elites in government, whether the constitution is Islamic or not.

your statement also doesn't mean anything because minorities are given fair representation in government. If not, more than enough.

 

[Nalwa]

When many of us are Kashmiri such as myself, that really is a laughable statement.

Laugh as much as you want. Doesnt change anything.

Actually, the military is quite secular now. And they have been from even before Zia. The last time someone was killed for Sharia was in Zia's time. That doesn't happen anymore and it wont.

Mullahs do not and cannot overpower the elites in government, whether the constitution is Islamic or not.

That also doesn't mean anything because minorities are given fair representation in government. If not, more than enough.

As long as you have state sanctioned prosecution and execution for blasphemy against Islam, no institution can be called secular. Many of your countrymen on this forum would oppose your views on secularism in Pakistan. I am sure you are aware of that.

 

[FreekiN]

Laugh as much as you want. Doesnt change anything.

>opinion

okay.

As long as you have state sanctioned prosecution and execution for blasphemy against Islam, no institution can be called secular. Many of your countrymen on this forum would oppose your views on secularism in Pakistan. I am sure you are aware of that.

We're not calling it secular. We're calling it fair and unenforced.

And yes, they would oppose my views on secularism. Before I joined this forum, I had no idea Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be a secular state. And from that we can assume, obviously they wouldn't teach that in schools books even though they should. And that really does not have much to do with the government. Private schools are able to teach this, but they don't. Concerned parents who grew up under "YAY, ISLAM TIME" wont believe it or wont accept it as truth.

 

[Dance]

Well as usual indian trolls messed up a thread. I don't think these people can live without messing up a thread about Pakistan

 

[ares]

Well as usual indian trolls messed up a thread. I don't think these people can live without messing up a thread about Pakistan

I find your remark particularly amusing..isn't this thread discussing on "why you are proud to be Pakistani" on the basis of certain events of history??...and it is Pakistan's history everybody here is discussing..or are you telling me you are only proud of bits and pieces of Pakistan's history and not all??

 

[Areesh]

Well as usual indian trolls messed up a thread. I don't think these people can live without messing up a thread about Pakistan

Well like as usual another thread is fcuked up and thanks to BR's export of trolls we have another thread being going down the drain.

OK Black Blood your thread is now officially ruined and fcuked up. Keep it up Bharatis.

 

[Kompromat]

My request/warning to Indians is to keep their nose out if you can't post something constructive & i am serious about it.

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

Too many opinions, man. We did not suffer anything from him.

Lets not discuss it here - he was a dictator and always will remain one.