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Why there is no Russian military intervention in the Ukraine?

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Why there is no Russian military intervention in the Ukraine

Posted on worldcrisis.ru 30 Май22:19опубликовалСухов боец красной армии [suho]

The level of analytical discussions on the Russian Internet is perfectly described by the political scientist Simon Uralov: "To consider that the Ukrainian crisis set off only the minds of the Kievan colleagues and turned them all into bloodthirsty hysterics is fundamentally mistaken. Among the Moscow colleagues there is also an incredible number of such." The purpose of this material is to take a step back from the hysteria and coldly analyze the situation in Ukraine.

I'll start with the necessary clarifications on several emotionally important topics:

Why is there no Russian military intervention?

If this text was written a few days earlier, a significant part of it would had to have been devoted to explaining why sending troops to Ukraine was inappropriate and just plain stupid even after the referendum. Fortunately, the head of the resistance in Slaviansk, Igor Strelkov, coped with this task better than I: in his video message, he very clearly described the inertness of the local population of Lugansk and Donetsk in terms of real action to protect their interests against the junta. Anticipating the arguments about the referendum, I hasten to say that a check mark on the ballot is certainly cool, but not much different from any hipster-white-ribboned (belolentochnyh) attempts "carry mode" – the “like” on Facebook. Because a "like" handle made in the bulletin doesn’t change anything. The referendum was a necessary but not sufficient action.

How much was the Kremlin prepared for events in Ukraine and how much does it improvise even now?

I advise you to read the Wikileaks telegrams: Cable: 08MOSCOW265_a , in which it is shown that Kremlin clearly pointed out to the Americans in 2008 the scenarios that we see today: "Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face."

It is logical to assume that such a development for the Kremlin was not a surprise and that we are now in even more unpleasant but less nuanced script that something like "Plan E".

In order to understand what the Kremlin will do next, let’s formulate objectives:

- Do not allow the entry of Ukraine into NATO.

- Do not allow the establishment and stabilization in Ukraine of a Russophobic regime, which assumes re-nazification.

- Do not allow the genocide of Russian South-East population.

Ideally this requires implementation of all three objectives while, not breaking the Russian economy during its reorientation toward Asia and, at the same time, preventing the Americans from pulling off their economic ends at the expense of the EU.

How can these goals be realized?

Let us consider the simplest scenario and see what are the vulnerabilities and negative consequences:

So, the Russian army enters Ukraine and a few days later comes to Kiev, then captures all of Ukraine. "Patriots" are jubilant, there are parades on the Khreschatyk, etc.

It seems that all three goals have been achieved, but the following problems emerge:

1. In the EU, where the European business elite has slowly pressed on the feet of their politicians and stamped on the brakes with regard to sanctions, the "war party" (a/k/a "The Party of the United States", or rather "Party Pax Americana») clearly triumphs. Against the Russian Federation, the maximum of real sanctions cut in with terrifying effect principally for the European economy themselves, which immediately falls into a recession. But nothing to rejoice about.

Against this background, the Americans easily force the signing of their version of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, a trade pact, which turns the EU into an appendage of the U.S economy. Negotiations about the treaty are going on right now and, for the Americans, the entry of Russian troops in Ukraine would be a huge gift. Sanctions against Russia would destroy European business and trade barriers with the U.S would finish it. What we have at the end: EU in a state as if after a war; the United States, all in white, joyfully absorbing European markets on which they have not and will not have competitors; the Russian Federation - not in the best shape. Does it seem to anyone that someone in this situation is the fool (лох), and that that someone is clearly not the U.S.? By the way, it is not necessary to take into account the arguments to the effect that European politicians would not allow economic suicide. Euro-bureaucrats are not capable even of this, as practice shows.
2. Besides the fact that the Kremlin will render a service to Washington, we need to look at what will happen to Russia itself.

• If the sanctions cut against Russia before the gas mega-contract for 30 years with China is signed, then China will be able to negotiate a price from a position of strength. In fact, from a position of blackmail (This shows in China’s comportment, however, but not clearly).

• If the sanctions are imposed against Russia before the oil mega-contract with Iran is initialled, through which Rosneft will be able to control an additional 500,000 barrels of oil per day, Iran will be able to negotiate a price from a position of strength.

• All subsequent attempts to build something up even to the delivery of imports we need now, will be very, very expensive.

• If sanctions cut in before the signing of the agreement on the establishment of the Eurasian Economic Community, imagine what trumps Lukashenko and Nazarbayev will have to twist Putin’s arms at negotiations. A little more of this, and Moscow, in order to create the EurAsEC, will have to pay for its oil. 3. The Russian Federation would have to assume the responsibility for the restoration of the Ukrainian economy and de-nazification: where to get the needed number of “de-nazifiers” in “dusty helmets” (if anyone has forgotten, according to Okudzhava, it was the commissars in dusty helmets that bent over the dead hero of the Civil War) to fight compact groups of Ukrainian Nazis, which will enjoy support and supply from abroad. On aggregate, it is clear that this scenario greatly benefits the United States and China. Russia remains in a deep sense of moral satisfaction, economic issues and future curses of the “generous” (щирых) Ukrainians who are unhappy with "life under occupation."
 
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How are the key points in time our vulnerabilities laid out?

1. Gas contract with China - May-June (May 21 signed!)

2. Oil contract with Iran in summer (That's why the U.S. lifted the embargo, as Rosneft is very tightly seated under BP and not very under Exxon Mobil. Where does the oil flows? To China).

3. Important! Elections to the European Parliament, which will get a lot of votes Eurosceptic allies of Russia. After the election, will be assembled Evrokommissii different composition which will be much easier to work with - May 25. Even more important! Gas contract signed with China, newly elected deputies will be more amenable to South Stream.

4. Collection of all relevant documents/permits/etc., for construction of South Stream - May.

This is what is visible to the naked eye, but there are other aspects that are very important, but which are difficult to place clearly on a timetable:

1. Transition to settlements in rubles for energy. Oil and gas are not potatoes: they (are provided under) long-term contracts that cannot be altered unilaterally but require lengthy work to replace them with new ones, plus the change in current ones.

2. Transition to quoting prices in rubles for energy (for trading in rubles) on the Russian markets - it is absolutely hellish work though, if only because up until now no one has ever done anything like it.

3. Own payment system

4. Preparation of import substitution or improvement of our work with Asian suppliers (not in emergency mode).

The list can and should continue, that's what I see, and the Kremlin sees much broader horizons.

Now add interesting initiatives of the Russian Foreign Ministry, which is not sitting idly by with its hands folded. For example, Vice Minister Karasin was in Doha on May 6 and met with all the Qatari elite. The results, in my opinion, turned out to be shocking. According to the Foreign Ministry, the Qatari emir said that he appreciates the "convincing and coherent regional policy of the Russian Federation", which is very unexpected for a country that is not just a U.S. ally and the political branch of Exxon Mobil in the Middle East and a 100% opponent of the Russian Federation in Syria. But the casket (ларчик) has simply opened: the fact is that American dreams of filling the whole world with cheap gas are a death sentence for Qatar and its elite. Without ultra-high gas prices, Qatar does not just lose any hope for regional greatness, but becomes a corpse. Doha focuses quickly and begins to offer something of interest: "At the same time, emphasis was placed on accelerating the coordination of the Forum of Gas Exporting Countries (GECF)", the next summit of which (that's a coincidence!) will be held in Qatar. The Forum of Gas Exporting Countries is an organization which includes countries such as Russia, Iran, Qatar, Venezuela, Bolivia and other exporters, and which the Kremlin, for a long time but without success, the Kremlin tried to turn into the gas analogue of OPEC. It is possible that now is the right hour for a potential gas cartel. First, the three major gas exporter: Russia, Qatar and Iran have very similar interests and should be able to work on the same side in order to share and "take over the gills" of the LNG market and pipeline gas market. Such a gas cartel, even in a reduced format (only the Russian Federation, Qatar, Iran) will control at least 55% of the world's gas reserves and have significant opportunities to strongly influence the energy markets of the EU and Asia. Of course, such a project would involve a lot of problems and it will meet opposition, no one gives a guarantee that everything will work, but it is important to see that Moscow is actively seeking opportunities for more strategic advantages in the fight against the United States.

Hopefully it is now clear on what the Kremlin is spending time, which it is trying to win out of the Ukrainian situation, and why it matters.

Let’s return to problems directly related to Ukraine and note that even the implementation of all the important foreign policy projects will not help in carrying out the denazification of Kiev and make it so that Russian troops or rebel army of Novorossia would by greeted with bread and salt even in the central region. If the army of Novorossia has problems with mobilization in Lugansk and Donetsk, then work within the zombified regions will be very, very difficult. However, it seems that on the side of the Russian Federation on the field of battle will soon appear Colonel Hunger and the Special Forces Giperok ("Hyperinflation"), which will dramatically change the balance of power.

The Ukrainian economy is finished. Given the disastrous spring sowings, the crops of vegetables destroyed (frozen), lack of credit, problems with gas, the jump in fuel prices, we can safely say that the economy will come as a northern beast, which will be full and fluffy. No one will give money to the junta, not even from the IMF, which promised something around $17 billion (exactly 50% of what Ukraine needs for this year), but built into the contract an "escape clause": if Kiev does not control all the regions, then Kiev is not to receive a cent. Hunger, cold and hyperinflation (caused by the collapse of the hryvnia) will actively work to weaken the junta and correct the minds of the “generous” (shchirykh) Ukrainians: they will surely not come to love Russia, but this is hardly necessary. It is necessary that they begin to remember the Yanukovych period as sweet, unattainable dream. The inevitable chaos and total collapse of social structures, coupled with low intensity civil war guarantees that NATO will not accept Ukraine since Europe will then itself "be on the rails", and even in the U.S., more or less moderate politicians will not make a move, which obviously would not lead to U.S. victory, but to the dragging of the country into a nuclear war.

Moreover, in the context of total economic collapse, for the miners, metal workers and other comrades who are now firmly glued to their jobs for fear of losing them and hoping to "ride it all in their huts on the edge (of the precipice)", there will no longer be such a possibility. They will have to participate in one form or another, in the political and economic problems of New Russia. And likely they will have to participate in arms.

At the same time, the-junta-named-Poroshenko, foisted (on the country) by the European Union, will have a strong incentive to negotiate with Moscow to make concessions, to offer compromises. Already, the new European Commission, which needs peace in the east and stable gas transit, will be pushing Poroshenko in this direction. Poroshenko will also be pushed in the same direction by social upheavals caused by Colonel Hunger and Hyperinflation the Saboteur.

All these factors, in sum, open up great opportunities for the Kremlin to reformat the former Ukraine into something appropriate to the interests of the Russian Federation. It is precisely this scenario that the United States is attempting to avoid, and it is because of this that the United States has serious reasons to accelerate the translation of the conflict into a hot phase with the use of troops and massive bloodshed.

If you add up the time that is needed for the action of Hunger and the time required to resolve foreign policy problems in terms of establishing work with China, Iran, untethering from the dollar, import substitution, etc. (very roughly) can come to the conclusion that you need somewhere 5-9 months (that same December, for which Yanukovych tried to negotiate) to provide solutions to Ukrainian and other issues to the maximum advantage of Russia. During this period, you must provide at least for the preservation of Ukraine in a state of civil war (i.e., support for the DNR, LNR, but it is not necessary to take Kiev too fast in order not to create unnecessary additional problems) and ideally, combined with the civil war, prolonged and sticky negotiations within Ukraine, with the participation of international observers, something like 2 +4 format, i.e., Poroshenko + Tsarev + Russia, EU, OSCE, USA.

The final touch. In recent months, the U.S. has slowed down the work of its printing press, reducing the "pump-priming" (this especially simplifies the formulation) from 85 to 55 billion dollars a month. Very many expect (e.g. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/27/us-usa-fed-idUSBREA3Q08920140427), that the machine will turn off completely by the end of this year. Again, in that same December. This is due to the fact that the dollar, though it is the main international currency, cannot be printed endlessly - it is impossible. According to various estimates, the United States has almost entirely used up the "resource strength" of the dollar, which allowed them to do the naughty with the (financial) machine. Moreover, the corollary and inevitable effect of such tricks is reducing rates on U.S. bonds, which, on the one hand, helps Washington to pay less for its debts, but, on the other hand, is actually choking the entire U.S. pension and insurance system that is built on the expectation of very different returns from their portfolios bonds. Roughly speaking, by the end of the year, the U.S. will have a choice between blowing up their social system in order to keep on printing, or greatly reducing their appetites in order to preserve any chance of stability at home. Judging by the reduction in the amount of dollars being thrown into the system, Washington has decided that preventing an explosion is more important than its foreign policy ambitions.

Now to complete the puzzle finally, let’s make our predictions:

- America will try by all means to aggravate the crisis in Ukraine, in order to weaken Russia and put the whole European market under its sway before it needs to shut down its printing presses.

- The Kremlin will try to translate the crisis in Ukraine from the acute to the chronic phase - civil war plus sluggish negotiations amid the economic collapse of Ukraine. At the same time, the Kremlin will use the time to create favorable conditions for the transition to the sharp confrontation with the United States - from the work on untethering from the dollar with China, Iran, Qatar, creating the EEC etc.

- Complete end to the crisis in December 2014, possibly earlier if U.S. desists from trying to exacerbate the hostilities.

- And if it does not desist? - Then ... a big war ... a war for resources, because shale "boom" was an ordinary bubble.

On this subject in detail in the article by William Engdahl "Washington shale boom - bust". Original Washington's Shale Boom Going Bust http://journal-neo.org/2014/05/12/washington-s-shale-boom-going-bust/
 
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Considering the "what ifs" and "then whats" of a direct Russian intervention in Donbass

It has been my recurrent effort to try to explain the likely reasons why Russia has not intervened so far in the war between Banderastan and Novorosiia. I notice that those who see signs of "betrayal" or "sellout" by Putin are long on accusations but very short on specifics. These folks who are busy accusing Putin of betrayal stop at the very short term: send guns, send men, impose a no-fly zone, strike this or that unit, etc. Fine. And then what? It is that "then what?" which our armchair patriots systematically shy away from. Besides "then what?" the other issue which these armchair strategists shy away from is "what if?". What if the Bandera freaks really open up with everything they have, out of spite or out of retaliation, and what if they really flatten Kramatorsk, Slaviansk or an entire neighborhood of Donetsk? What if the dead at this point turn from tens or hundreds into the many thousands? Those who mistakenly believe that the junta forces have already used "massive artillery strikes" should look up the concept "огневой вал" which is often translated as "artillery barrage" which, while not incorrect, does not even begin to convey the meaning that it has in Russian military doctrine. Rather than to give figures, just take a look at these:
(shows Ukrainian training)
Реактивные системы залпового огня "ГРАД" "УРАГАН" "СМЕРЧ" "РПК-8" "УДАВ - 1М" "ОГОНЬ" "ГРАД-М" - YouTube (shows various systems)
My point is this: the Ukrainians have the systems needed to *really* flatten a town and they are trained to do so. So what if they do that? Then what?
Of course, Russia has the means to rapidly destroy the Ukrainian artillery units in the Donbass, but that would mark yet another escalation of the conflict. Then what?

Or what if the US orders Poroshenko to "request" the protection of NATO? And what if NATO does something really dumb like the initial deployment of the 82nd Airborne to Saudi Arabia as part of Desert Shield? Why do I call "Desert Shield" really dumb? Because unbeknown to the American public, the 82nd AB was put into a very dangerous situation: this light infantry force was deployed as a "tripwire" force meaning that if the Iraqis crossed into the KSA they would have to engage the 82nd and that meant attacking the USA. Brilliant? Hardly. The 82nd is a light infantry force which has zero chance against the large Iraqi tank formations. The *hope* on the US side was that US airpower would be enough to stop the Iraqis. And it was just that - hope. Years later, I think it was Dick Cheney who was asked by a reporter what would have happened if US airpower would not have been enough to deter Saddam and if the 82nd had been butchered. You know what he replied? "We would have had no other option but to use our nuclear weapons". So finally the truth came out: the White House was ready to take the risk to sacrifice the 82nd AB and it was "hoping" that the US would not have to use nukes. I don't know about you, but seeing Imperial leaders "hoping" not to use nukes really scares me.
So what if Obama (whose Administration must have an average IQ lower then George Bush Senior one's by at least 20 points!) puts down a "tripwire" force along the Dniper and what if the Ukrainians organize combat operation or even military strikes from behind this tripwire force? Then what?
One more example? Sure!
It is not unreasonable to suspect that maybe 15%-20% of the folks living in the Donbass/Novorossia region are not pro-Russian at all and that they support the junta. This is a big area with, if I recall correctly, something in the range of 7 million people living in the Donetsk-Lugansk region, so even 10% of 7 million is still 700'000 people supporting Kiev. From these 700'000 let's take on 10% capable of fighting (70'000) and let us assume that only 1/4 of them would be actually willing to seriously fight. That is still 17'500 men willing to fight in just two region of a much bigger south-eastern Ukraine. That is way more than the IRA ever had in its ranks. That is even more than Hezbollah has today!
Speaking of the IRA - remember how the Brits deployed in Northern Ireland to officially restore peace and security? (If not, see the "Operation Banner" entry on Wikipedia for a quick refresher). That also seemed like a no brainer at that time. It turned into a prolonged nightmare.
I could multiply such examples ad nauseam but you get my point: unlike some of our wannabe strategists, Putin and his Russian Security Council members have to consider the full-spectrum of possible "what ifs" and "then whats" before taking a decision to intervene. And I haste to add that a covert intervention is dangerous too: if, so far, Kiev has failed to capture a single Russian "agent" or "operator" this does not mean that this might not happen and that would be a political disaster for Russia. And if you think that the SBU could not catch itself in broad daylight you are right - except that in this case the Ukrainians would just be the arm of the US CIA/NSA who, you can be sure of that, are the one using all their formidable means to locate any Russian covert activity in the Ukraine.
I won't even address the comments of some lunatics who are seriously suggesting that Russian should nuke London or any other such stupidities. In conclusion I will just say this: like it or not, there is a consensus in Russia right now that a direct intervention would be a huge mistake. As for covert aid, we can only speculate about it, but I do notice that the Novorossiia Defense Forces seem to regularly "find" "abandoned" weapons just of the type which they need most. As to those who constantly demand a Russian intervention in the Donbass I will say this: unless you can support your calls for intervention with all the appropriate "what ifs" and "then whats" - don't bother as you are only making yourself look amateurish and irresponsible.
The Saker
 
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No intervention because thats what NATO wants them to do!
 
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There is. They are fighting in Novorossiya right now. Russia is going to let it simmer for a while. Ukraine only has a few jets and helicopters that can still fly. Ukrainian aircraft losses have been heavy. It won't be long before the Ukrainian air force is depleted. Sending in militants is more effective than sending in the army. Militants are more suited to guerilla warfare and will exact a heavy toll on the Ukrainian military ala Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya. There are plenty of Russian politicians and officers from the far right, such as Zhirinovsky, who actively back Russian militants. Russia has millions of unemployed men. These men are drawn towards Russian nationalist parties such as the LDPR. There is no shortage of militants nor arms. Of course, if the US does deploy troops to Ukraine, then Russia will also do so.

 
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There is. They are fighting in Novorossiya right now. Russia is going to let it simmer for a while. Ukraine only has a few jets and helicopters that can still fly. Ukrainian aircraft losses have been heavy. It won't be long before the Ukrainian air force is depleted. Sending in militants is more effective than sending in the army. Militants are more suited to guerilla warfare and will exact a heavy toll on the Ukrainian military ala Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya. There are plenty of Russian politicians and officers from the far right, such as Zhirinovsky, who actively back Russian militants. Russia has millions of unemployed men. These men are drawn towards Russian nationalist parties such as the LDPR. There is no shortage of militants nor arms. Of course, if the US does deploy troops to Ukraine, then Russia will also do so.


I thought you guys claimed we have mercenaries in there now. This fighting could last for many years. Just like in Syria.
 
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Does not make sense to send army. Militias and volunteers from different countries cope well.
 
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No intervention because thats what NATO wants them to do!

Exactly. Plus we can send in our special forces, which are the best in the world, silently and pretty much any time to wipe out any concerns if they act silly enough.

Russian won this round. The west needs to go back to supporting liver eating terrorists. They cant handle a real fight.
 
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Exactly. Plus we can send in our special forces, which are the best in the world, silently and pretty much any time to wipe out any concerns if they act silly enough.

Russian won this round. The west needs to go back to supporting liver eating terrorists. They cant handle a real fight.
I kinda felt that the west wanted to drag Russia first into Libya, Then Syria, and Now Ukraine. Russia is playing it smart and didn't get provoked.
 
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Exactly. Plus we can send in our special forces, which are the best in the world, silently and pretty much any time to wipe out any concerns if they act silly enough.

Russian won this round. The west needs to go back to supporting liver eating terrorists. They cant handle a real fight.

Sadly you believe this video game nonsense. :/

So now I see threads that say the US is weak for not getting involved militarily, and this one, where it is said that Russia backed down because the US is weak.

This logic is fairly flawed.

The US didn't get involved militarily because it isn't our fight. We have to condemn any Russian aggression towards its neighbors in order to placate Eastern Europe and our NATO allies, who rely on us to be strong.

Both sides know the boundaries. Putin isn't going to roll the tanks through Poland, and the US isn't going to deploy offensive forces to save Ukraine.
 
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Exactly. Plus we can send in our special forces, which are the best in the world, silently and pretty much any time to wipe out any concerns if they act silly enough.

Russian won this round. The west needs to go back to supporting liver eating terrorists. They cant handle a real fight.

Russian special forces are the best at killing everybody in a room including civilians, they are not very experienced at handling anyone with any military training, and if they go to Ukraine which im sure they will and end up killing civilians im sure some how the blame will be put on western agents. Russian special forces are more like American marines, tough and reckless.
 
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If you honestly believe this gibberish you are dumber than your name implies.

Sadly you believe this video game nonsense. :/

So now I see threads that say the US is weak for not getting involved militarily, and this one, where it is said that Russia backed down because the US is weak.

This logic is fairly flawed.

The US didn't get involved militarily because it isn't our fight. We have to condemn any Russian aggression towards its neighbors in order to placate Eastern Europe and our NATO allies, who rely on us to be strong.

Both sides know the boundaries. Putin isn't going to roll the tanks through Poland, and the US isn't going to deploy offensive forces to save Ukraine.
 
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If you honestly believe this gibberish you are dumber than your name implies.

The brilliance of your debate tactics, along with your eloquent sentence structure, are only outweighed by the in-depth analysis on display in this quote.

:tup:
 
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/10/w...kraine-battle-find-lots-of-helping-hands.html

There is no shortage of men. The key is having enough arms. Methinks there is plenty of industry in Novorossiya to supply the men with light arms like rifles, RPG rockets, mortars. Blueprints of sophisticated guided missiles like Iglas and Kornets would have to be obtained from the LDPR prior to manufacturing locally in Novorossiya.
 
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