Why the Indian Air Force has a high crash rate

[Myth_buster_1]

Sweat more in peace to bleed less in war. If IAF pushes itself to the limit then a few mis - occurrences happens.
BTW IAF has 6 or less crashes since 2012 - 13. Figure will reduce with induction of more AJTs.

Even USAF / USN suffered many crashes last year.

BTW PAF in an aerial war will struggle to even keep up with sortie rate of IAF let alone fight it's overwhelming air superiority advantage in it's flankers. If I were PAF I would be more worried about that than IAF's internal problems

PAF training aircraft crashes in Swabi - The Express Tribune

Pilot unharmed as PAF Mirage aircraft crashes near Somyani - The Express Tribune

crash of PAF - Google Search

Pakistan Air Force Jet Crash Kills 2

PAF Huey chopper crashes inside military camp in CDO, none hurt | MindaNews

2 PAF pilots die as SF-260 plunges into sea | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

Business as usual?

One thing is for sure, IAF defiantly pushes itself exceeding crashing limit! Thats why half of your fleet stays grounded multiple times of year.

 

[spectribution]

One thing is for sure, IAF defiantly pushes itself exceeding crashing limit! Thats why half of your fleet stays grounded multiple times of year.

250 hours per pilot is no joke. Sweat more in peace to bleed less in war. With more modern equipment being inducted training protocols have improved and crashes have reduced dramatically as seen in article.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

250 hours per pilot is no joke. Sweat more in peace to bleed less in war. With more modern equipment being inducted training protocols have improved and crashes have reduced dramatically as seen in article.

Indian love to pull figures off their rear. Do you base your claim from IBN or NDTV journalist reports who also happen to be fanboys or can you back your claim of 250 hours per pilot with actual proof? how many years does that pilot fly 250 hours? If a pilot is to fly 250 hours for 15 years thats 3700+ hours and only 260 USAF pilots have able to achieve 3000 flying hour mark out of 2200+ F-16. So please do some research before you make a mockery out of yourself.

 

[Gufi]

In the backdrop of the sixth Sukhoi crash in six years, here’s a look at some factors that contribute to the IAF’s high crash rate.

Okay first of all stop with the colouring it makes for very poor reading add comments later if you must

The People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has 150 Flankers of Russian origin and 229 Chinese knockoffs.

Starting with this, is there an issue with belittling China in articles. These knock off's as you label them, have improvements over the Russian originals incorporating Chinese technology with Russian. And they do not have issues, unlike the ones your article has mentioned.

The Su-30 is also equipped with synthetic aperture radar (SAR), which gives it greater long-range reconnaissance capabilities. Armed with the SAR pod, the IAF Sukhois are known to engage in aggressive patrols along the China-India and India-Pakistan borders.

okay you made this maroon, so it must have some relevance to the reason the planes go down, or is it just Indian feel good moment in the article about the planes. What are aggressive patrols btw, do the pilots scream or hop up and down while flying, or is it just telling us that they are frequent patrols in the area? Reporting at its best, vague and self congratulatory. This man seems to have little if any military reporting experience, seems like a fan boy piece.

Considering the Flanker’s hunter killer reputation, anyone who questions its capability is clearly living under a rock.

This part is bold, and for good reason, normal people can not read unless it is large and maroon, wonder why bother pasting the whole article, next time paste just these lines and try more colours, make it like a rainbow. Yes the plane is good on paper, no one will deny that. Combat performance is something actual combat will tell, but again it is a good jet and if used properly can be a good asset to any air force. Maybe now that I have proved I do not live under a rock, we can continue.

rash No.1: 30 April 2009
The first ever Su-30MKI crashes in the Pokhran region, Rajasthan. The IAF’s Court of Inquiry establishes Wing Commander Vishwas Munje mistakenly switched off the warplane’s fly-by-wire system.

Did they court martial this guy, or at least stop him from flying again, maybe you should paint the switch in maroon instead of this article and write do not touch, plane go boom boom.

Crash No.2: 30 November 2009
Sukhoi crashes near Jaisalmer, Rajasthan, after a fire warning. An IAF investigation attributes it to accidental ingestion of a foreign object in the engine intake.

okay seriously we need to breed more pigeons, they solve everything. But in all seriousness this is an issue normally during taking off and gaining altitude, I would consider a twin engined jet fighter to be able to handle foreign objects in engines. Any details on this??

Crash No.4: 19 February 2013
Aircraft’s right wing explodes over Pokhran, shortly after completing a training mission.

Seriously, how does one blow up a wing??? Was the cause of this explosion ever revealed, or is that all they revealed. We completed a training mission and then the wing blew up.

Crash No.5: 14 October 2013
Fly-by-wire system malfunctions yet again and the Sukhoi goes down near Pune. Russian experts blame pilot error but the IAF says the Court of Inquiry is yet to pinpoint exact reason.

Where is the verdict on this one? still trying to understand what happened or did they accept the Russian version?

Crash No.6: 19 May 2015
Su-30MKI flying from Tezpur in Assam develops a technical snag and the pilot is forced to abandon the aircraft. Cause is yet to be established.

Technical snag professionals call it. Probably this fly by wire system again, for a system with the word fly, it sure does not seem like it wants the plane to do that.

Possible reason No.1: Intense training
The IAF is one of the few air forces in the world that conduct intense, year-round training. Benjamin Lambeth of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace says the IAF trains for a "high intensity, high stakes" conflict. Keeping in mind the possibility of a two-front war, the IAF puts its pilots and aircraft through the wringer.

Okay, again with maroon. What do you think the other air forces do, train for low stake conflicts or keep the intensity low. I wonder why this delusion that you have the only air force that is training. Apparently we are in all in Turkey for the Anatolian Eagle to drink some tea and have camp fires. You know, good old air force stories over a nice fire. I will elaborate on this ahead where you mention trainers.

Similarly, the PLAAF has nearly 2,000 planes, but only a fraction of the peace-time accident rate. According to Foreign Policy, this suggests Chinese pilots are not spending sufficient time in the air or training under pressure. “(Chinese) pilots are neither trusted nor properly trained. Drills are regimented, centrally controlled, and divorced from realistic combat conditions.”

Sigh, again with the assumptions. @DESERT FIGHTER addressed the other part about the concrete bunkers and all I will not go into that. But not all countries have the media covering every single aspect of every single operation or training plan. The Chinese train quietly, so does most of the world. Your media can not even keep quiet about submarine launching and secret tests. So again, under estimating every one else to feel better or some how justify your plane crashes is idiocy at best.

Possible reason No.2: Harsh environment

Harsh is normal in India. Tropical India is an unforgiving environment for any aircraft. The hot air means aircraft engines produce less thrust and the wing produce less lift compared to similar aircraft flying in European skies. Sun baked runways are also known to impact landing safety. These are factors IAF pilots have to live with.

Bird hits are another huge factor in aircraft accidents over India. The IAF attributes around 10 per cent of accidents to bird hits. Most IAF bases are located near populated areas, where birds are a constant menace.

I wonder why this only happens in India, see we have the same weather cycles at different times but we have deserts and we have forests. I venture to say we even have big birds, and lots of pigeons(your media covers them a lot). And there are ways you clear birds from around run ways, the whole world does that for commercial airlines, and you say that is an excuse for military.

Possible reason No.3: Missing trainers

According to figures released by the Ministry of Defence in March 2013, the IAF was losing the equivalent of one fighter squadron (approximately 18 fighters) in accidents every two years. This was primarily because of the lack of adequate number of trainers.

Trainers, now that is some where near the mark. You need to fly smaller planes before you get bigger ones, but single engine planes are much less forgiving in regards to mistakes.

Possible reason No.4: Shoddy maintenance

India is notorious for its ‘chalta hai’ or ‘it’ll be alright’ attitude. In this backdrop, shoddy maintenance could well be a factor.

That again could be a reason, but then random checks on the planes would and should have determined that by now.

Silver lining
The good news is that aircraft crashes in the IAF have shown a declining trend over the last three years. From a high of 30 in fiscal 2011-12, they declined to six in 2012-13 and an equal number in 2013-14.

quality checks and pilots learning to fly the planes properly

The IAF is now looking to improve overall fleet serviceability. The air force recently told a parliamentary committee that fleet-wide serviceability stood at 60-65 per cent, but could be increased to 77-80 per cent, provided spares were made available.

The policy is surprising, buying new planes but providing spares for only 6 out of 10 times they are needed.

In fact, IAF pilots are known to lead missions over 10 hours in their Sukhois.

Okay I seemed to have missed this, but yes 10 hour missions. What do you plan to fly 15000 kilometres in a battle in circles, or continuously take off and land because the engines would not like that, and get the engines angry and they will auto eject you again.
There is a difference in our plane losses and your plane losses, your premier fighter is crashing and malfunctioning, and you intend to use this jet for a decade at least and that is an understatement. If our jets which are being phased out and have lived past their usability fall do not compare them. The F 16s of ours are flying on a regular basis, carrying and launching weapons without wings blowing up, and it seems our pilots are not turning off essential systems required to fly the plane.
post articles without your colouring next time, and maybe you will attract real comments with genuine debates. As for the planes, there is an issue with the systems given to India, research will show you that and Russia is not accepting it. Add with that your maintenance issues and untrained pilots flying your planes( before you argue read crash 1), and you have these crashes.
@WAJsal read the article, it is fun
@DESERT FIGHTER nice reply, and next time do not bother, the links posted were not even for the Pakistan Air Force, all the person wants is to prove to himself that other air forces lose jets at this rate also.

 

[WAJsal]

okay seriously we need to breed more pigeons, they solve everything.

I think spy pigeons to some extent are possible. I saw a video of a drone pigeon flying, looked very real. The description killed my mood though.

Seriously, how does one blow up a wing??? Was the cause of this explosion ever revealed, or is that all they revealed. We completed a training mission and then the wing blew up.

Where is the verdict on this one? still trying to understand what happened or did they accept the Russian version?

Technical snag professionals call it. Probably this fly by wire system again, for a system with the word fly, it sure does not seem like it wants the plane to do that.

Seems quite messed up. Clearly, either quality is very low, or the maintenance is very poor.

@WAJsal read the article, it is fun

Yes it was quite fun, very informative as always. thank's for the tag.
Bhai, i tagged you here: Increase in militant attacks in Pakistan's Balochistan in one-year outlook, but Chinese investments
Maybe you didn't get an alert for it. It's a glitch i hope they fix it. post number 7. Or maybe i am being ignored.

 

[spectribution]

Indian love to pull figures off their rear. Do you base your claim from IBN or NDTV journalist reports who also happen to be fanboys or can you back your claim of 250 hours per pilot with actual proof? how many years does that pilot fly 250 hours? If a pilot is to fly 250 hours for 15 years thats 3700+ hours and only 260 USAF pilots have able to achieve 3000 flying hour mark out of 2200+ F-16. So please do some research before you make a mockery out of yourself.

Your airforce inventory claiming to be at par with ours makes a mockery of itself.

We are talking about MKI/29 UPG Top Guns not your JH 7Bs.

 

[IND151]

well so you mean that every time there is a pakistan sponserred terror attack in india IAF should go and Bomb pakistan ?

well unlike pakistanies we indians dont get high on revenge and bravado and start shooting in such situationrather we analyise it minutelli and then start working on it whose results come after some time but when they come owr victim has no where to run or hide

musharraf and his gang stabbed owr peace initiative in backby kargil mis advanture nowlook at the situation your not onli did your army had to shame itself by disowning its own martyres PM torun with begging bowl to USA on 4th july (US Independence Day holiday) to save yourarmies pride inspite your army having so called "johrri shalaiyaat"

Many Pakistani members still dont believe what you have written in bolded part.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Many Pakistani members still dont believe what you have written in bolded part.

its not that they dont know it but thats because there pride cannot swollow the bitter truth but then who careslet them live in the same fancy land and keep on repeating the same mistakes till they have that capabillity

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Your airforce inventory claiming to be at par with ours makes a mockery of itself.

No one is claiming our air force inventory to be par with IAF because it was never like that.

We are talking about MKI/29 UPG Top Guns not your JH 7Bs.

NO, you indians claim all of your MKI pilots clock 250 hours which is a absurd statement. Less then 10 % of USAF F-16 pilots have ever reached 3000 hours mark considering if they fly 250 hours per year for 15 years.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Your airforce inventory claiming to be at par with ours makes a mockery of itself.

We are talking about MKI/29 UPG Top Guns not your JH 7Bs.

On today's menu .. Business as usual :


Coast guard Dornier aircraft with three crew members missing off Chennai coast

RIP to the dead.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Anothet jaguar gone..

 

[massattack]

you sh

Rakesh Krishnan Simha
In the backdrop of the sixth Sukhoi crash in six years, here’s a look at some factors that contribute to the IAF’s high crash rate.
More than 200 Sukhoi Flankers currently form the core of the Indian Air Force’s strike element, for a planned force of over 272 Su-30 fighter-bombers. India received the initial batch of Sukhois in 2002. The first of these aircraft crashed in 2009, and since then five more have crashed.

Now let’s look at the Sukhois in other air forces.

The People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has 150 Flankers of Russian origin and 229 Chinese knockoffs. That’s a total of 379 aircraft, for an eventual figure of 400 Russian made Flankers, derivatives and illegal copies. And yet the PLAAF has lost fewer Sukhoi in crashes. Are the Chinese Sukhois better maintained, better built or are Chinese pilots simply playing it safe? More on that in a moment.

The Russian Air Force has a total of 438 Flankers. Again, the Russian Sukhois don’t tumble out of the air at a rate close to the IAF’s. Similarly, there have been no reports of Flankers of the Vietnamese and Indonesian air forces being involved in crashes.

Why the Flanker force matters
The IAF calls the Su-30 its “air dominance” fighter for a good reason. The arrival of the Sukhoi has decisively tilted the balance of power in favour of the IAF in the region. The Flanker’s super-maneuverability, its armoury of advanced beyond visual range missiles and extraordinary range of 3000 km (extendable to 8000 km with aerial refuelling) are aspects that make it the wolf of the skies.

The Su-30 is also equipped with synthetic aperture radar (SAR), which gives it greater long-range reconnaissance capabilities. Armed with the SAR pod, the IAF Sukhois are known to engage in aggressive patrols along the China-India and India-Pakistan borders.

Considering the Flanker’s hunter killer reputation, anyone who questions its capability is clearly living under a rock.

So what explains the loss of six IAF Flankers in crashes? Let’s go into the various probable causes and also dissect the theories floating out there.
Crash No.1: 30 April 2009
The first ever Su-30MKI crashes in the Pokhran region, Rajasthan. The IAF’s Court of Inquiry establishes Wing Commander Vishwas Munje mistakenly switched off the warplane’s fly-by-wire system.

Crash No.2: 30 November 2009
Sukhoi crashes near Jaisalmer, Rajasthan, after a fire warning. An IAF investigation attributes it to accidental ingestion of a foreign object in the engine intake.

Crash No.3: 13 December 2011
Aircraft crashes 20 km from Pune. IAF says the crash is due to a malfunction in the fly-by-wire system.

Crash No.4: 19 February 2013
Aircraft’s right wing explodes over Pokhran, shortly after completing a training mission.

Crash No.5: 14 October 2013
Fly-by-wire system malfunctions yet again and the Sukhoi goes down near Pune. Russian experts blame pilot error but the IAF says the Court of Inquiry is yet to pinpoint exact reason.

Crash No.6: 19 May 2015
Su-30MKI flying from Tezpur in Assam develops a technical snag and the pilot is forced to abandon the aircraft. Cause is yet to be established.

Now that you have a good idea of what exactly happened in those six crashes, let’s look at the possible reasons why jet fighters crash in India.

Possible reason No.1: Intense training
The IAF is one of the few air forces in the world that conduct intense, year-round training. Benjamin Lambeth of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace says the IAF trains for a "high intensity, high stakes" conflict. Keeping in mind the possibility of a two-front war, the IAF puts its pilots and aircraft through the wringer.

Mock air combat can involve hundreds of aircraft flying thousands of kilometres. During such a war game in 2013, Sukhois flew 1800-km bombing missions from Chabua in Assam to the western front, with mid-air refuelling. In fact, IAF pilots are known to lead missions over 10 hours in their Sukhois.

Such training places a great deal of stress on aircraft, pilots and air crews, which means potentially more accidents. But that’s the way the IAF trains for war. In fact, a former air force chief has gone on record that he would rather lose pilots during training than during war.

The strategy has been amply rewarded. In the 1971 War, for instance, the IAF was able to conduct a wide range of missions – troop support; air combat; deep penetration strikes; para-dropping behind enemy lines; feints to draw enemy fighters away from the actual target; bombing; and reconnaissance.

In contrast, the Pakistan Air Force, which was solely focused on air combat, was blown out of the subcontinent’s skies within the first week of the war. Those PAF aircraft that survived took refuge at Iranian air bases or in concrete bunkers, refusing to offer a fight.

Similarly, the PLAAF has nearly 2,000 planes, but only a fraction of the peace-time accident rate. According to Foreign Policy, this suggests Chinese pilots are not spending sufficient time in the air or training under pressure. “(Chinese) pilots are neither trusted nor properly trained. Drills are regimented, centrally controlled, and divorced from realistic combat conditions.”
A PLAAF fighter pilot would most likely be reprimanded if he deviated from the flight plan set by his commanders. Losing a plane would be cause enough for a court martial.

Thankfully, the IAF does not believe in having robots but values superior training and innovativeness. IAF pilots have truly internalised what Sergei Dolgushin, a Russian Air Force ace with 24 victories in WWII, said is a prerequisite to be a successful fighter pilot: “A love of hunting, a great desire to be the top dog”.

Possible reason No.2: Harsh environment

Harsh is normal in India. Tropical India is an unforgiving environment for any aircraft. The hot air means aircraft engines produce less thrust and the wing produce less lift compared to similar aircraft flying in European skies. Sun baked runways are also known to impact landing safety. These are factors IAF pilots have to live with.

Bird hits are another huge factor in aircraft accidents over India. The IAF attributes around 10 per cent of accidents to bird hits. Most IAF bases are located near populated areas, where birds are a constant menace.

The situation has got so dire that the IAF last year issued global bids to four companies for 45 bird detection and monitoring radar systems to be installed at airports and air bases across India.

Possible reason No.3: Missing trainers

According to figures released by the Ministry of Defence in March 2013, the IAF was losing the equivalent of one fighter squadron (approximately 18 fighters) in accidents every two years. This was primarily because of the lack of adequate number of trainers.
Rookie fighter pilots begin on basic trainers, then move on to intermediate jet trainers (IJTs) before finally graduating to advanced jet trainers (AJTs). These three stages are critical elements of fighter pilot training and any shortcuts will certainly lead to disaster.
But what was happening was that in the absence of an AJT, rookie pilots were moving straight from the IJT to frontline warplanes such as the MiG-21. The upshot – young pilots died at an alarming rate.
With the induction of the Swiss Pilatus basic trainer and Hawk AJT from Britain, the crashes have come down – but not stopped.

Possible reason No.4: Shoddy maintenance

India is notorious for its ‘chalta hai’ or ‘it’ll be alright’ attitude. In this backdrop, shoddy maintenance could well be a factor. Although the IAF is known for its high standards, those standards are largely of its pilots; maintenance crews may not share that quality. Of late, there have been a number of incidents reported widely in the media about IAF ground crew involved in all sorts of serious crimes. The IAF should look at establishing an elite division of ground crews to service its high-end aircraft.

Possible reason No.5: Depleted air force

The IAF’s fleet strength is currently down to 34 squadrons or around 600 warplanes. The sanctioned number is 42 squadrons. In a country as vast as India, with multiple threats, such depletion in fighter aircraft means fewer aircraft have to perform more missions to get the same job done. It also means less down time in maintenance hangars. This is where India quickly needs to induct more locally built Tejas interceptors and more locally assembled Su-30s.

Silver lining
The good news is that aircraft crashes in the IAF have shown a declining trend over the last three years. From a high of 30 in fiscal 2011-12, they declined to six in 2012-13 and an equal number in 2013-14.
The IAF is now looking to improve overall fleet serviceability. The air force recently told a parliamentary committee that fleet-wide serviceability stood at 60-65 per cent, but could be increased to 77-80 per cent, provided spares were made available.

During a visit to Bangalore in December, IAF chief ACM Arup Raha said: “Budgets remain a constraint, especially the revenue budget, to maintain spares for the aircraft to maintain high operational readiness.”

While the IAF is clearly doing its best under the circumstances, it needs to do better. Bringing the crash rate down to US or European air force levels should be the goal. Losing a Sukhoi each year is akin to burning Rs 350 crore in cash.

Why the Indian Air Force has a high crash rate | Russia & India Report

let me get this straight paf is bad because it had less crashes?you should try doing comedy.. nicely done bravo