Why the Chinese military is only a paper dragon

[sicsheep]

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Are these true or not ?
These behaviors are not signs of a truly professional military. This is not about individual soldiers getting drunk on a weekend. Individual misconduct can and are usually remedied by local commanders with existing military laws. We are talking about the corruption of the honor and integrity of ranks -- earned ranks -- by military leaders in selling them. This undermines the foundation of a military. Ranks are supposedly earned by hard work, intelligence, a sense of self respect and honor, patriotism, and fidelity to the greater cause. But now I have to salute and say: "Yes sir. No ma'am." to someone who I and others knew bought his/her rank while we have to work hard to earn what we have ? In combat, I have to obey the orders of a colonel who flunked military education but got his rank because he extorted money from me and my mates to purchase his rank ?
Not one of the Chinese members here have ever served in the military so none of you will ever understand -- deeply -- the significance of how the ranks relates to each other. So you guys go on and boast about the J-20, the advance ships, and the amount of tanks all you want. In combat, these things will be for naught when ordinary PLA troops are under assault and their mid-grade officers are brain addled because they bought their ranks instead of earning them through hard work and proper military education.

Stop focusing on the hardware, but on this section...

Why the Chinese military is only a paper dragon - The Week

Are these true or not ?

These behaviors are not signs of a truly professional military. This is not about individual soldiers getting drunk on a weekend. Individual misconduct can and are usually remedied by local commanders with existing military laws. We are talking about the corruption of the honor and integrity of ranks -- earned ranks -- by military leaders in selling them. This undermines the foundation of a military. Ranks are supposedly earned by hard work, intelligence, a sense of self respect and honor, patriotism, and fidelity to the greater cause. But now I have to salute and say: "Yes sir. No ma'am." to someone who I and others knew bought his/her rank while we have to work hard to earn what we have ? In combat, I have to obey the orders of a colonel who flunked military education but got his rank because he extorted money from me and my mates to purchase his rank ?

Not one of the Chinese members here have ever served in the military so none of you will ever understand -- deeply -- the significance of how the ranks relates to each other. So you guys go on and boast about the J-20, the advance ships, and the amount of tanks all you want. In combat, these things will be for naught when ordinary PLA troops are under assault and their mid-grade officers are brain addled because they bought their ranks instead of earning them through hard work and proper military education.

You clearly dont understand how Chinese society works, just because ranks are bought ,it does not mean the candidate does not qualify, the problem in China is too many qualified candidate are gunning for one position, so yes, the one pays the most get the position, but 99% of the time everyone who applied over qualifies for the position anyways.

one thing China is not short of is hard working, smart people.

 

[OrionHunter]

Yes the paper dragon who scares the hell out off India and Japan and many more and now USA is more afraid off China than ever before

'Scares the hell out off India, the US and Japan'? What were you smoking when you wrote this crap? Try better weed before posting, than what you get from Afghanistan which is adulterated and makes one delusional and talk funny like morons usually do!

And of course we don't boot-lick the Chinese like some nations do! That's because of something termed as 'inferiority complex'.

 

[Zarvan]

'Scares the hell out off India, the US and Japan'? What were you smoking when you wrote this crap? Try better weed before posting, than what you get from Afghanistan which is adulterated and makes one delusional and talk funny like morons usually do! View attachment 84388

And of course we don't boot-lick the Chinese like some nations do! That's because of something termed as 'inferiority complex'.

Yes Yes that is why you are scared to do anything when they enter your border and humiliate you and you are able to do nothing except for cry

 

[HariPrasad]

Yes the paper dragon who scares the hell out off India and Japan and many more and now USA is more afraid off China than ever before

Paper tigers often pretend to be the real tiger. They are scarred people so they try to beheave as if they are not afraid of any one.

yes，paper dragon，dose this pic make u feel better?View attachment 81667

Quality is clearly visible in photograph.

 

[gambit]

You clearly dont understand how Chinese society works, just because ranks are bought ,it does not mean the candidate does not qualify, the problem in China is too many qualified candidate are gunning for one position, so yes, the one pays the most get the position, but 99% of the time everyone who applied over qualifies for the position anyways.

one thing China is not short of is hard working, smart people.

I hope EVERYONE think like you do of the PLA. The sad part for your argument is that by the time the truth is revealed, it will be too late, like losses in combat.

Yes...This is the PLA that predicted the US would suffer Vietnam War casualty level for Desert Storm and now is scrambling to reform. But according to you, those who bought their ranks are justified because of stiff competition from other equally qualified candidates. Never mind the reality that the more qualified candidates available, the higher the bar, not the higher the price.

 

[AgentOrange]

I hope EVERYONE think like you do of the PLA. The sad part for your argument is that by the time the truth is revealed, it will be too late, like losses in combat.

Yes...This is the PLA that predicted the US would suffer Vietnam War casualty level for Desert Storm and now is scrambling to reform. But according to you, those who bought their ranks are justified because of stiff competition from other equally qualified candidates. Never mind the reality that the more qualified candidates available, the higher the bar, not the higher the price.

Yes the PLA predicted ODS 1 casualties incorrectly. So did the US Army who thought they would suffer tens of thousands of casualties themselves. The swiftness with which the Iraqi Army collapsed and with which the Iraqi Airforce bugged out surprised everyone. And now we know that the Iraqi army has always suffered from morale issues and has never been nor will they ever be an efficient fighting force, even with US training and reconstruction. Your point again?

And if corruption was as endemic (and I'm not saying there aren't individual cases of corruption) as you say, we wouldn't have seen the transformation the PLA has undergone in the last 20 years with still a relatively modest budget compared to that of the US. Corruption encourages stagnation and the PLA has been anything but. Even your inherent Viet biases should be able to see that. But then again, you also think that the leaders of SE Asia can meet on the sidelines of APEC, in a broom closet, and emerge with nuclear weapons so who knows.

 

[sicsheep]

I hope EVERYONE think like you do of the PLA. The sad part for your argument is that by the time the truth is revealed, it will be too late, like losses in combat.

Yes...This is the PLA that predicted the US would suffer Vietnam War casualty level for Desert Storm and now is scrambling to reform. But according to you, those who bought their ranks are justified because of stiff competition from other equally qualified candidates. Never mind the reality that the more qualified candidates available, the higher the bar, not the higher the price.

Not only PLA predicted high casualty for Desert Storm, US command also estimated high casualty on initial invasion, it was gonna be like another D-Day for them.

 

[Full Moon]

Why the Chinese military is only a paper dragon - The Week

That seems to overlook their superb manufacturing base. Irrespective of what they have now in their arsenal, given their manufacturing based economy and huge number of skilled laborers, they can overcome any arms shortage within months. They may still lack sufficient aircrafts manufacturing capabilities. But apart from that, they apparently have mastered the know-hows of most industries (civilian or military).

Corruption might still be hard to overcome, in the short and medium range at least.

 

[andy_hujian]

ummm...no it doesn't.

How is your next generation T-50 going?

Many things are very inaccurate:

The PLA possesses 7,580 main battle tanks — more than the U.S. Army. But only 450 of those tanks — the Type 98As and Type 99s — are anywhere near modern, with 125-millimeter guns, composite armor, modern suspension, and advanced fire control systems.
All of America's roughly 5,000 M-1 tanks are modern.

China has over 500 Type 98/99 + 1800 Type 96 which also have 125-mm gun and composite armor.

USA has only 2,338 active Abrams tanks.

But China's air forces likewise maintain mostly obsolete jets. Of 1,321 fighters, only 502 are modern — 296 variants of the Russian Su-27 and 206 J-10s of an indigenous design. The remaining 819 fighters — mostly J-7s, J-8s and Q-5s — are 1960s designs built in the 1970s. They wouldn't last long in a shooting war.

Actually 571 Su-27 variants and J-10. Also saying "ONLY 502 are modern" is funny, since France has only 243 modern fighters, UK - 102, Germany - 94, Italy - 68... Thus China has more modern fighters than France, UK, Germany and Italy combined!

My estimates are much more accurate

22 top airforces (based on plane quality and quantity). | Page 24
42 top tank fleets based on quality and quantity
38 top air defence fleets based on quality and quantity
25 top submarine fleets based on quality and quantity

Numbers don't matter. No countries including the U.S. can defeat such a big country even if China has zero tanks.

 

[j20blackdragon]

That seems to overlook their superb manufacturing base. Irrespective of what they have now in their arsenal, given their manufacturing based economy and huge number of skilled laborers, they can overcome any shortage of arms within months. They may still lack sufficient aircrafts manufacturing capabilities. But apart from that, they apparently have mastered the know-hows of most industries (civilian or military).

I agree 100% with what you just said, and let me post some statistics to back it up.

Motor Vehicle Production

Production Statistics | OICA

Shipbuilding

http://www.statista.com/graphic/1/263895/shipbuilding-nations-worldwide-by-cgt.jpg

Seems like the author of the article took one look at China's peacetime military and already declared victory. Instead, people should ask themselves what could China build during a WW3 type of scenario given the sheer size of its manufacturing base.

 

[j20blackdragon]

A small history lesson. WW2 lasted for 6 years from 1939 to 1945. In 1939, total aircraft production for the US military was less than 3,000 planes. By 1944, the US was producing over 90,000 aircraft per year. By the end of the war, the US produced a total of 300,000 aircraft. All it took was 6 years. The US did the same thing for guns, land vehicles, tanks, artillery and ships. In 6 years, the US created the greatest military the world had ever seen -- a military that was all but nonexistent before the war began.

This is the power of having a strong manufacturing base.

My question is this. Is the US still capable of repeating what it did during WW2, or is China the world's largest manufacturer now?

Steel Production

List of countries by steel production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aluminum Production

List of countries by aluminium production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Titanium Production

List of countries by titanium production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Electricity Production

The World Factbook