What's new

Why some in Pakistan want to replace Jinnah as the founder of the country with an 8th century Arab

True indian cant find anything Good about Pakistan.. why indian so concern about whos Pakistani founder or hero..
i think your Bapu is going to be replaced by his killer go save him first....
Who said Mr.Gandhi is the founder our nation ? How can a man born in 19th century be the father of a nation which is as old as the mountains. In-fact we consider legendary emperor Bharata as the founder of our nation. India has been called Bharatavarṣa (the country of Bharata) after him, and Bhārat is the official name of our country for the very same reason.
 
.
If I recall correctly, we had/have some senior Pakistani posters who argued/argue in favor of introducing Arabic as Pakistan's national language.

Ancient Greek and Latin are considered as classical languages and taught in many schools in Western countries. Arabic and Persian have the same status in Pakistan and must be taught in schools. Both Arabic and Farsi will give student more opportunities for jobs and help Pakistan to build more bridges with Middle East.
 
.
Let's just use the right words to make sense of this piece.

Bin Qasim founded modern Sindh. However Sindh has since disappeared in the folds of History,
Bin Qasim can be remembered as one of the pioneers of Islam in Asia to his greatest glory.

Mohammad Ali Jinnah founded Pakistan. Since Pakistan still exists today as a proud nation,
first of Islam to hold the nuclear bomb, known as a participant of value in the UN Blue Helmets,
Mohammad Ali Jinnah is the father of one of the nations that are part of the present of Earth.

Problem solved. For Bin Qasim to have been the founder of Pakistan, one would have to dismiss
the Lodi that made Pasthuns rulers over Punjab & Dehli, Mughal that extended into Persia but were
Mongol/Turkic in origin, the Afsharid presence with ( cough, cough ) strong Persian overtones and
then the British rule by 1820 that mixed both Western and Hindu values.

If modern Pakistan dates to prior than 1947 it must be through the man who fought this absorption,
Syed Ahmad Khan who fathered the 2-states proposition. Which is easy to show as Khan and Jinnah
overlap in both time and appurtenance to the Muslim League. One can then ask the following question :
Would Bin Qasim find the modern state to be similar to the one he "created"? Would he recognize his
Mansurah under Brahmanabad? Would he understand the presence of Persia/Iran and Shia Islam in
the midst of his Abbasid based Ummayad caliphate? Would he understand the Sihks as descendants
of the Jats he so dominated? Would he understand non-Muslims serving for Pakistan which he didn't
allow in his days and so on …
What's more, he left after a brief stay to face the problems of Al-Walid's succession and was killed soon
after so that we don't know if he would have wanted to come back to Sindh and Multan even if his son did.

In reverse though, the present government is allowed to draw a profile of intellectual linearity since Jinnah
himself is credited with saying that
"the Pakistan Movement started when the first Muslim put his foot on the soil of Sindh, the Gateway of Islam in India."
and that first Muslim would be Bin Qasim?

I'd tentatively say that historically, the non-continuous rule of local Muslims since Bin Qasim's conquest
forbids to call him the founder of Pakistan while the emotional link is nonetheless coherent for sociological
considerations that made Independence the best solution do stem from the era despite linear hiatuses.

As a comparison, by the same historical standards, France dates back to 843 while the emotional link
goes back to the Gauls i.e. Gallia Celtica that sprang out of La Tène culture of 450 BC or late Celts.
Going that far back would however descend Pakistan from the Vedic era which may not please all.
Bypassing the Indo-Greeks would be more reasonable although that's when Sindh emerged later and set
initial Pakistan culture as that of the post Kushnan times, about the Guptas or even Sodha Rajputs?
Or one could instead go further back and find the Indus Valley civilization of 3 000 BC so that then Sindh
outdates Bharat and Indians descend from Pakis? :woot:

Which goes to show how emotional and historical realms are difficult to marry?

To each according to their personal philosophy, I guess.
Good day all, Tay.
 
Last edited:
.
Ancient Greek and Latin are considered as classical languages and taught in many schools in Western countries. Arabic and Persian have the same stats in Pakistan and must be taught in schools.
As far as I know Greek and Latin are optional subjects in most US public school systems. No one is forced to learn them (Private religious schools might be different).

However, I'm against offering Arabic or Chinese language courses in Pakistani public schools even as optional coursework because introducing any additional subjects will require resources - qualified teachers, developing a proper curriculum, testing resources, infrastructure to house new coursework related activities, assuming none of the other subjects are removed.

The State does not even have the resources alocated to ensure quality basic education for all Pakistanis. So where do you think will find the resources to implement teaching of new languages?

If anything, the government should strip out Islamiat/Islamic studies and focus on the basic sciences, arts, civics/, English and Urdu.
 
.
i sometimes wonder why someone has not named /declares this writer nadeem f paracha as Traitor/ RAW agent till yet :sarcastic:

and how is he still surviving in pakistan even after writting such stufff :devil: :haha:

Pakistanis give more respect to journalists/critics/writers than BD for sure.
 
. .
As far as I know Greek and Latin are optional subjects in most US public school systems. No one is forced to learn them (Private religious schools might be different).

However, I'm against offering Arabic or Chinese language courses in Pakistani public schools even as optional coursework because introducing any additional subjects will require resources - qualified teachers, developing a proper curriculum, testing resources, infrastructure to house new coursework related activities, assuming none of the other subjects are removed.

The State does not even have the resources alocated to ensure quality basic education for all Pakistanis. So where do you think will find the resources to implement teaching of new languages?

If anything, the government should strip out Islamiat/Islamic studies and focus on the basic sciences, arts, civics/, English and Urdu.

I have suggested this already, and am glad to see that at least some see the value in this proposition:

Similarly, there has been a creeping religiosity that has been strangling all academic activities and laying the groundwork for manipulation of young minds later on. All curricula must be reviewed by the specific Board constituted for this purpose with an aim to removing such material and leaving behind a secular educational framework only. Only four subjects should be taught formally (English, Maths, Science, and Civics) up to the 12th grade level with no compulsory religious material. Religion can be introduced at the college level as an optional area of study.
 
.
I disagree. Islamiat must remain compulsory subject until Matric.
It is a waste of resources. Most parents cover religious education in their homes. If it is absolutely necessary, bring in a chapter on religion in to Civics that talks about religion supporting democracy, honest public service, equality of all citizens regardless of race or faith etc.

I have suggested this already, and am glad to see that at least some see the value in this proposition:
I haven't read your thread yet (will read it now), and it's a tad surprising how similar our views are on this, given how strongly we disagree on other issues.
 
.
I haven't read your thread yet (will read it now), and it's a tad surprising how similar our views are on this, given how strongly we disagree on other issues.

That only shows that we think for ourselves, and decide on the issues, not by prejudicial biases. :)
 
. .
First time I am hearing this sort of stuff!
 
.
Sophisticated historic troll wow what
all piece of shit can people join
 
.
It is a waste of resources. Most parents cover religious education in their homes.

People learn rudimentary Islam from their village Mullah mixed with superstition and Piri Muridi. At least through standard religious curriculum children learn mainstream Islam. You will have more people sending their children to Madrasah and local mosque to be influenced by the Mullahs. Islamiat also creates common religious experience for Pakistani Muslim children and thus unity.
 
.
Don't try to evade the reality..what you are saying is it is one and the same if you are Pakistani first or Muslim first..who is more dear to you?an Arab Muslim or a pakistani Hindu or christian?for me I always side with Indians regardless of their religion or caste(provided they are good and not traitors).

I am not evading anything. I have already stated on this forum that Pakistani hindus or christians (or Pakistanis of any religion or none) are closer to me than any arab sitting in the middle east spreading sectarianism in my country. Where ever I go I self identify as a Pakistani. As for religion, it is my personal matter, it doesn't make me choose between my country or religion.
 
.
Islamiat also creates common religious experience for Pakistani Muslim children and thus unity.

How well has that worked over the last few decades? The results speak for themselves, don't they?
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom