What's new

Why Russia has no reason or right to complain about NATOs expansion.

No, I got the quote from what you posted. You can go back and do a word search and find that it's in the goal of the CFE treaty text you posted. And I repeat why post the goal of the text if you don't think it's worth anything.

This Swede has been operating on this forum for years in this manner. A shrewd operator. FIrst he posts lengthy sermons. Later, he gets edgy when you confront him on lies and deception. He just wants to hear yes sir.
 
.
I don't know why Swedes agree with an Anglosaxon-Zionist regime either. It doesn't make any sense to advance the interest of Anglosaxon-Zionist regime in Ukraine.
 
.
I don't know why Swedes agree with an Anglosaxon-Zionist regime either. It doesn't make any sense to advance the interest of Anglosaxon-Zionist regime.

They are all in it together. This is one big unholy alliance. You cover my back and I will cover yours...
 
.
You can't randomly say that. This wikipedia picture I gave you uses the BBC as a source. You're denying something that ukrainians referred to it as themselves. Really, try to do better than just deny something..

View attachment 956495

Now that you're easily proven a fool what are you going to do?
I see mostly civilians in this picture protesting. They were fired upon.
That does not mean that they succeeded in anything except making their angry opinion heard. Not much unlike France some month ago. Was there a coup in France?
Yanukovich escaped due to his pending impeachment.

No, I got the quote from what you posted. You can go back and do a word search and find that it's in the goal of the CFE treaty text you posted. And I repeat why post the goal of the text if you don't think it's worth anything.
Yes, and that is the text of the Founding Act…
 
.
He disagrees with the Swede. Yet he provides his assistance. You are also missing some brain cells.
Because you're acting like a dick again. And you were derailing the thread with that "did you burn a Quran yet?"

What are you like,5? Grow up.
 
.
Because you're acting like a dick again. And you were derailing the thread with that "did you burn a Quran yet?"

What are you like,5? Grow up.

I am derailing the topic because you say so? Take a hike, Greek. LOL it is funny to see you jump into this discussion when you have nothing meaningful to say. Much funnier is the fact that you are literally trying to defend the Swede as if you owe him something. 🤣 What is up here?
 
.
I don't know why Swedes agree with an Anglosaxon-Zionist regime either. It doesn't make any sense to advance the interest of Anglosaxon-Zionist regime in Ukraine.
We simply do not like the Russian dictator trying to imposing himself on others.
There is no country in Europe that supports helping Ukraine more than Sweden.

Because you're acting like a dick again. And you were derailing the thread with that "did you burn a Quran yet?"

What are you like,5? Grow up.
@LeGenD , @waz.
Can You please thread ban @Dalit and @Trango Towers from this thread and remove their ramblings.
 
. .
We simply do not like the Russian dictator trying to imposing himself on others.
There is no country in Europe that supports helping Ukraine more than Sweden.

You don't like Russia because they are simply defending their rights. Nothing more nothing less. Russia has the right to defend itself against Ukraine that is behaving erratically due to American and European dictation.
 
. .
A popular argument from Russian trolls is that NATO promised not to expand, and then expanded anyway, and therefore Russia has the right to invade Ukraine.

It is claimed that Gorbachev was promised this verbally in a meeting.
Since Gorbachev only had an international role until the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 such a promise must have been made up until 1991.

The arguments against are:
In short, Russia accepted in writing the expansion of NATO here: https://www.nato.int/cps/su/natohq/official_texts_25468.htm

with the critical part being:

respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security”

Former Warsaw Pact countries wanted to join NATO to avoid being invaded by Russia applied and the first invitation came in July 1997, that is after the Founding Act was signed.

The only deal on enlargement is the 1990 Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany. where NATO troops are not to be based in former East Germany - until a new German government decides otherwise.


Before signing the Founding Act, Yeltsin wanted to have a promise of no-expansion from Bill Clinton, but this was denied. This is shown in the notes taken from the meeting, available in the Clinton Library.


Instead it was agreed to postpone discussions until after critical elections.

Putin and Russian Trolls are lying their teeth out, when they claim that NATO promised - no expansion.


Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule​

This article is more than 1 year old
George Robertson recalls Russian president did not want to wait in line with ‘countries that don’t matter’

Jennifer Rankin in Brussels
Thu 4 Nov 2021 05.00 GMT


Vladimir Putin wanted Russia to join Nato but did not want his country to have to go through the usual application process and stand in line “with a lot of countries that don’t matter”, according to a former secretary general of the transatlantic alliance.
George Robertson, a former Labour defence secretary who led Nato between 1999 and 2003, said Putin made it clear at their first meeting that he wanted Russia to be part of western Europe. “They wanted to be part of that secure, stable prosperous west that Russia was out of at the time,” he said.

The Labour peer recalled an early meeting with Putin, who became Russian president in 2000. “Putin said: ‘When are you going to invite us to join Nato?’ And [Robertson] said: ‘Well, we don’t invite people to join Nato, they apply to join Nato.’ And he said: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’”

The account chimes with what Putin told the late David Frost in a BBC interview shortly before he was first inaugurated as Russian president more than 21 years ago. Putin told Frost he would not rule out joining Nato “if and when Russia’s views are taken into account as those of an equal partner”.
He told Frost it was hard for him to visualise Nato as an enemy. “Russia is part of the European culture. And I cannot imagine my own country in isolation from Europe and what we often call the civilised world.”
Lord Robertson’s comments on the One Decision podcast, which is presented by Michelle Kosinski, a former CNN journalist, and Sir Richard Dearlove, a former head of M16, underscore how Putin’s worldview has evolved during his 21 years of unbroken rule of Russia.
After the Orange Revolution street protests in Ukraine in 2004, Putin became increasingly suspicious of the west, which he blamed for funding pro-democracy NGOs. He was further angered by Nato’s continuing expansion into central and eastern Europe: Romania, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Slovenia, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania chose to join the alliance in 2004; Croatia and Albania followed in 2009. Georgia and Ukraine were promised membership in 2008 but have remained outside.
Robertson also recalled how he became the first and only Nato secretary general to invoke Nato’s collective defence clause, known as article five, in the wake of the 9/11 attacks.
Invoking article five was “a gamble” and it was far from a foregone conclusion that Nato members would reach for it after a terrorist attack, he said, noting it was “designed for an attack by the Soviet Union across the Fulda Gap in Germany”.

Some Nato allies were uneasy about invoking the collective defence clause to support the US, fearing it would give George W Bush’s administration a licence to invade Iraq. Robertson recalled one minister asking him: “‘Does this mean we’re giving them a blank check to invade Iraq?’ We said: ‘No, it’s not.’”
The Scottish former minister also revealed how the historic decision to invoke article five nearly went awry. The day after the 11 September attacks, Robertson was due to attend a routine meeting of EU foreign ministers. Anxious not to upstage the EU by calling for article five, he asked a couple of friendly foreign ministers – Jack Straw of the UK and Louis Michel of Belgium – to ask a question that gave him an opening to discuss it. But neither minister asked the question. “So I left, and afterwards there was a bit of bad blood and they said I should have announced it. But I said: ‘Well, I was going to announce it, but nobody asked the question.’”
After the 9/11 attacks, many Nato allies joined the US in invading Afghanistan, with Nato taking over the mission command in 2003.
Robertson said he urged the late US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld to keep US forces in Afghanistan alongside Nato allies after the Taliban’s military defeat. He warned Rumsfeld he would denounce any US withdrawal as unacceptable. “So he [Rumsfeld] got a bit upset at that point, and I said: ‘No, … you’re not going to say we did the cooking, you can clean up the dishes.’ I said: ‘That’s not it. We went in together, and we’re staying in together.’”
He was critical of the US’s chaotic withdrawal two months ago, but contended that the 20-year long mission of western military forces made a difference, despite the return of the Taliban. “We’ve left a legacy there that these theological hoodlums are not going to be easily unravelling. And I think that Afghanistan in the future will be a very different place.”
 
.
Democracies are dictatorships, they just have a larger pool of colluders.
1695842930848.jpeg
 
. .
You don't like Russia because they are simply defending their rights. Nothing more nothing less. Russia has the right to defend itself against Ukraine that is behaving erratically due to American and European dictation.
There is nothing in international law that gives Russia such rights.
 
.
They are all in it together. This is one big unholy alliance. You cover my back and I will cover yours...
Except the Swede doesn't understand what is going on. With a UK naval base into Odessa, that is increasing Anglosaxons, which are already on two giant undeserved continents. And he wants to benefit them even more and help them expand more so.
 
.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom