Why religion and politics don't go together.

[Yankee-stani]

I am a vegetarian. No thanks. Now you go and groom some under age girl with some street drugs.[/QUOTE]

Ahh so no delicious lamb mutton shank with chicken broast

 

[khawar khurshid]

Islam. Islam mine. Islam yours. Real Islam. True Islam. And it goes on. While there maybe one Islam but the human ability to interpret things in million ways means often my take on Islam won't be same as the next guy. Indeed two people could end up up fighting and killing each other because they are so sure Allah is on their side. Whose actual side Allah is is never found out and something only to be seen in hereafter and since once you go over no one has yet come back to tell us "hey I was right Allah was on my side". Instead the two sides will keep praying on the graves of their dead and claim they died fighting for "the Islam". The only way out of this madness is everybody pulls back and instead focus on their own perspective of Islam and use that to better themselves as they will face account for their own actions. For instance when I leave the world non of you guys will be able to remedy or help the accountability I face. I will face it for my actions. NOT OTHERS.


What I am saying is we need to remove Islam from the dirty, grubby world of politics. Because when religion fuses with politics it only creates more schism and chaos. All it manages to do is turn Islam into a slogan. A cheap tool to be used for gread and power.

A great example of this can be seen by the Azadi March of JUI-F by Maulana Diesel. This is a man who claims to represent Islam and has considerable support in some parts of the country. Yet is he face of Islam? That can't be it. I know it is reasy to dismiss him but we can't ignore that he has plenty of support and will claim as vocally as any others that he is the carrier of the banner of Islam. You can say no but this only goes back to my opening paragraph.

Thoughts people?

The

The affairs of our state are not running on religion, rather it is running through secular ways of governance, which we inherited from British Raj. Responsibility of our problems lies on those people who running these affairs, which are secular.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

What? Only bearded JUI-F talibs are under economic hardship? Is inflation only screwing bearded people? The fact is and you know it, Mullah Diesel is behind this and is out to secure his political position and is using Islam and economy to do this. Shameless !

Kala pa-ki living in Gora-istan in a filthy ghetto subject of Goree Queen eating from a economy controlled by Jewish bankers.

I am a vegetarian. No thanks. Now you go and groom some under age girl with some street drugs.

Are you really a vegetarian. I didn't know some Pakistani Muslims are vegetarian. Did you become vegetarian after watching 'Game Changers'?

 

[Yankee-stani]

The affairs of our state are not running on religion, rather it is running through secular ways of governance, which we inherited from British Raj. Responsibility of our problems lies on those people who running these affairs, which are secular.

That too as well but I claim Pakistan has too much pseudo liberals and pseudo Islamists who just loot the country as usual

 

[khawar khurshid]

That too as well but I claim Pakistan has too much pseudo liberals and pseudo Islamists who just loot the country as usual

Basically we lacks character and morality, our main emphasis should be on character building.

 

[Mutakalim]

Just look at this. Please tell me what has Islam got to do with this? Why is religion being used for political purposes?

I dont know why you are not getting the simple point. Acts of Muslims are independent of Islam. You can not judge an ideology, dogma or religion on the basis of it's followers. Some Muslims are good some are bad, fault lies in Muslims and their wrong acts, not Islam. These are entirely two different things, and your assertion is against common sense.

We are not defending JUI, Fazlu or any other Muslim, we are defending the basic tenets of Islam. Islam is not a religion, it is a deen, an all encompassing ideology.

This is why religion should be kept away from politics.

Why are you restricting yourself to just politics. The same logic can be applied to all aspects of human life. It can be said on the basis of your logic that Islam should be exterminated from social, cultural and individual aspects of mankind because some Muslims are involved in fornication, adultery, theft and robbery. The same argument is presented by Non Muslims against Islam.

Mullah Deisel is shamelessly using religion and his brainwashed students from madaris as tools in cheap lust for power and greed.

Agreed. So now please enlighten me what this has to do with Islam and it's practical implementation? You are trying to argue that Islam has now become redundant and useless; and we should accept secularism as an alternate system.

What next? Give power to Mullah Diesel and declare him Caliph?

Give democracy a chance. Let the democratic and elected governments complete their tenures. Let the system work, without pulling the legs of each and every government. Democracy is the only solution. Let the people decide what is best for them. Respect their mandate. Improve the current system. Remove administrative, legal and political hurdles. Strengthen the democratic institutions. And the most important thing is; dont try to impose alien ideologies and concepts on Pakistan.

I am sure that would give people like @Mutakalim orgasms but that would be a recipe for disaster

No dear, your hatred is misdirected. The problem with you; as far as I am able to understand is that your have a huge ego. Your ego is not letting you to give space to fellow human beings.

If not him we would get another mullah from Diesel's ilk becoming the Caliph and unleshing a caliphate on Pakistan.

Pakistan is already an Islamic state, the only true Islamic state. And we are proud of that. Your useless threads without logic are not going to change the fact.

 

[dBSPL]

The problem with Muslim unity is every regional powerful Muslim country be it Turkey,Iran,GCC etc are just using religious affiliation for their hegemonic ways to gain traction sad part Pakistanis care about those countries than ourselves



Oii oiiiii

Turkey does not have any policy approach based on sectarian or religious benefits in any terms. The person who claims this is either malevolent or could be unable to read even the recent history of the region. Your perceptual manipulation efforts have begun to draw attention. You are giving important clues about your sources of information.

Turkey is a secular country. A state that completed civil ( include religious ) and women's rights reforms in the 1930s and has a 140-year parliament. You should be careful who you compare to.

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There are many issues that disrupt Turkey's relations with Israel, but at the beginning comes from the blockade of Gaza. But, how much of the Turkey politics supported by Palestine? Nothing. They even trained terrorists while we were fighting with Pkk. We support Palestine because it is a humanity problem, that is being experienced there.

Who supported us in Azerbaijan's Karabakh case or Northern Cyprus issue? Who helped us when hundreds of thousands of Turks from Bulgaria were forced into migration in 80s? Oh , even while ASALA terrorist organization massacres dozens of Turkish diplomats, some " so-called Muslim states" had even helped them.Where was the Ummah while in the Balkan migrations, or genocides in Europe, Central Asia and the Caucasus? When the Kirkuk Turkish massacre took place in 1959(to 70s) and the Turkish Cypriots chopped in 60s and 70s, our hopes for the ummah, who preferred to close their eyes, have been exhausted long ago.

Turkey must be strong. Because when we are weak, our descendants, relatives, brothers and sisters who are scattered throughout our geography are doomed.

(The same is true for Pakistan. States that have received numerous assistance from Pakistan in terms of cheap labor or country security cannot raise their voices even today on the Kashmir issue.)

Trivia: Who knows here, when Turkey and Irak trying to establish a confederation (1936) , prime minister of Iraq was arrested and Staff of Chief was assassinated near Mousul. Or who knows that all training camps of the Pkk terrorist organization were in Syria until 1998?

But I'm sure many of you can write in detail how the British occupation forces created a situation against Pakistan when withdrew from Muslim India. But how many of you thinking that this policy was tried firstly in the post-Ottoman MENA?

Here is a counter-question, moreover, does not even related to do directly with Turkey: Sunni Arabs and Arabized Africans have suffered the most in our common geography for the last 40 years. But whose war is it? They were mostly among the façade. The 3 million people who died or over 10 million people whose lives were ruined were not shia, wahabi or jews.

Today, 4 million refugees flee to Turkey because of Syrian war, and there are some reasons about it. Firstly, these borders drew by the hegamons of the Post WW period.This was done so sloppy that I can show you the historical documents, even the villages divided in the middle. Secondly, the Turkish state is not today, but for 100 years: from the MENA colonial times of the French and British, the cadres of many states were programmed to nurture hostility against Turkey. Although this has worked for a long time, it no longer works with the public. As a person who has traveled a lot and I see this with all its nakedness in every muslim country I visit.

As you can see, Crescent Flag not the only similarity between Turkey and Pakistan.

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[Imran Khan]

religion have no place in politics

 

[VCheng]

Acts of Muslims are independent of Islam.

Absolutely incorrect. Any religion is only what its followers do, not what they claim.

 

[Mutakalim]

Absolutely incorrect. Any religion is only what its followers do, not what they claim.

You have serious mental problems, I know it from your previous posts.

 

[VCheng]

You have serious mental problems, I know it from your previous posts.

Your post shows you have to resort to personal attacks because you have no logical counter-argument.

A religion is made up of its followers, and what its followers actually do in its name, not what they claim.

Now please do try to respond to the substance of that argument, if not beyond you.

 

[Mutakalim]

Your post shows you have to resort to personal attacks because you have no logical counter-argument.

Your posts shows that you have a serious grudge against Islam and specially Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Your previous posts also showed that you are a Hindu lover and you consider it as your sacred duty to speak against Islam and Pakistan.

A religion is made up of its followers, and what its followers actually do in its name, not what they claim.

Islam is based on it's primary sources; the Quran and the Sunnah. If anyone has objection on Islam then it should be directed against contents of these two sources. Similarly, the objections on individuals should be directed on them, not the religion which they are following. If Christians are doing wrong acts then the fault lies with those christian individuals; not on Christianity.

You are presenting and then defending a more absurd narrative then your secularism. No wonder why these idiocies are the product of sick minds.

Now please do try to respond to the substance of that argument, if not beyond you.

What substance? This garbage is not substance, it is known as rubbish. Come up with something substantive other than one liners.

 

[VCheng]

Islam is based on it's primary sources; the Quran and the Sunnah. If anyone has objection on Islam then it should be directed against contents of these two sources. Similarly, the objections on individuals should be directed on them, not the religion which they are following. If Christians are doing wrong acts then the fault lies with those christian individuals; not on Christianity.

A classic deflection. I am NOT objecting against the primary sources of Islam. What Muslims actually DO is what the whole word sees, not just me.

After all, we see what followers of other religions do and correctly deduce that their religion is what they are doing. The same principle applies to Islam and Muslims as well.

 

[Mutakalim]

A classic deflection. I am NOT objecting against the primary sources of Islam. What Muslims actually DO is what the whole word sees, not just me.

After all, we see what followers of other religions do and correctly deduce that their religion is what they are doing. The same principle applies to Islam and Muslims as well.

Then world should raise objections on Muslims and their wrong acts; not on Islam. It is true that wrong acts by Muslims cast a wrong image of Islam, but that is just an image, not a reality. The grounds of this deduction are very flimsy, it can not stand against logical criticism. For instance, if a student of Physics is continuously obtaining low marks in his subject, then he will be criticised, not the subject of Physics.

 

[VCheng]

Then world should raise objections on Muslims and their wrong acts; not on Islam. It is true that wrong acts by Muslims cast a wrong image of Islam, but that is just an image, not a reality.

That is EXACTLY what the world sees and objects to since what Muslims do in the name of their religion is very REAL. Quite logical.

Look at it this way. Christians claim that Jesus commands them to love everyone, and yet how many Muslims have been killed by them. What do you think about George Bush as a Christian? He does go to church regularly.