Why Rafale is a Big Mistake

[greatone]

What you got wrong- "Full ToT", no there is nothing called full ToT, not the way you are imagining it, or for that matter all the jingos on EVERY defence forum.

There is no fundamental difference between the MKI deal and the MMRCA deal in terms of know how accrued, none, nada.

It does not matter where we sourced certain components from for the MKI. At the end of the day, like the Rafale, we inked it so that we would build the MKIs in country. What "ToT" refers to is the transfer of MRO essentials, of the rotables, and on the extreme end of the "codes" (in most cases the OEM dithers on the latter, like the Russians did). What one accrues is know how, which is patently useless unless you are dealing with the "production is in itself technology" problem. That is to say that the production process, even if one were to build the SNECMA engine from scratch (as in even the raw materials were sourced from within country, all sub-components fabricated in country, i.e. the super nickle alloys for the MKI engine which did not trans-migrate into the Kaveri program- for good reason) it would not help you design a similar engine.

The fundamental reason is quite simple. People conflate know how with know why, and even the MMRCA contract does not specify the transfer of the latter, it does not because the MoD and the forces know full well that the Know Why will never be transferred.

People who think that the Rafale deal will spin off an indigenous AESA FCR or aid in the Kaveri program need to reevaluate their knowledge of the deal and the processes involved.

Is correct.

However I disagree with your assertion that Rafale will bring absolutely nothing to Indian Aerospace Industry.
Even knowing "how" without "why" will help us to bring our aerospace industry upto par. as it is still in a nascent stage.At the very minimum it will provide us with cutting edge manufacturing technology circa 2004 which is a big deal.

And if we compare our experiences with manufacturing MKIs with manufacturing Rafales without knowing the "why" part, we will still be able to learn a thing or two by comparing French and Russian way of solving a similar problem.

Are these industrial advantages worth the skyhigh costs though ? I would still say NO as I am firm believer in sacrificing present for future.Pour those monies into Tejas and watch something take roots and grow.

 

[GURU DUTT]

dont worry "mere aziz hamwatno" big annoucement coming next weak regarding MMRCA deal

 

[sathya]

dont worry "mere aziz hamwatno" big annoucement coming next weak regarding MMRCA deal

What announcement is that?

 

[GURU DUTT]

What announcement is that?

regarding the shape and cost of the final contract

 

[anonymus]

We cannot be in an arms race with a nation who's economy is 4 times ours. All we can hope for is deterrence and Leverage.

Expect Modi to make all efforts to be best friends with china and expand our relationship with china's enemies like Japan and USA.

A strategic level initiative is now required to counter this threat, not tactical decisions like buy Rafale to defend ourselves.

Better to test new Nukes and build infallible missiles and missile defence than buy Rafale. That is what logic dictates. Time to learn some lessons from pakistan too.

Nukes count only in battle of survival. For everything else, you still needs conventional military power.

Without good planes chinese would give a drubbing to both Indian army and Airforce in any limited conflict. A competent Airforce would be able to hold it's own in an conventional war against China.

 

[Makaramarma]

Nukes count only in battle of survival. For everything else, you still needs conventional military power.

Without good planes chinese would give a drubbing to both Indian army and Airforce in any limited conflict. A competent Airforce would be able to hold it's own in an conventional war against China.

Nukes are deterrents. No one picks fights with a nation that has a stock pile of 1000 nukes and a potent delivery system.

 

[arp2041]

Why not buy a 5th generation aircraft for the same unit price, and it will start to arrive around the same time frame as well (2018-2020).

What about the Operating Cost?

& I can say this for sure, that no AF (not even Russian, US or Chinese) will be having 100% 5th gen aircrafts in there fleet 20-30 years down the line.

I guess Rafale is the best bet today in 4.5 gen category.

 

[anonymus]

Nukes are deterrents. No one picks fights with a nation that has a stock pile of 1000 nukes and a potent delivery system.

No one picks a deathmatch with a nuclear power. Nukes guarantee that China would never march to Delhi ( even if that was possible) ,but they do not guarantee that they would not confiscate Tawang or Arunanchal, if Indian Army/Airforce is not in a position to put up a fight.

 

[he-man]

Simple word MKI is jointly designed like Brahmos .... while MMRCA is full ToT ... need to see whether manufacturing technologies will be transferred or not ... For sure we will get the software and process documented

Who told u that mki is jointly designed

MMRCA debate | Page 3

People go here for real discussion

 

[Bhasad Singh Mundi]

Who told u that mki is jointly designed

MMRCA debate | Page 3

People go here for real discussion

its design requirements came form IAF.

 

[he-man]

its design requirements came form IAF.

Sorry..........thats just wrong

 

[Bhasad Singh Mundi]

Sorry..........thats just wrong

Yes sir thats right especially the canards and vectoring

 

[he-man]

Yes sir thats right especially the canards and vectoring

So what,,,,dosen't matter,we wanted something,they did it.
Where are we in the picture?

 

[Bhasad Singh Mundi]

So what,,,,dosen't matter,we wanted something,they did it.
Where are we in the picture?

 

[he-man]

I ain't dying so easily.
Have u seen the view of armed forces on HAL??In those videos?

Damn all are going bonkers over HAL and maybe right no,,,no i think they are indeed right