Why Pakistan’s army is more popular than its politicians

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I think the author was trying to convey that the bloodshed in Punjab region and following demographic shift diluted a stable society. You are needlessly being defensive.

I was just pointing out that the population of Punjab province is over 50% of the total population of the country (some argue perhaps close to 60%) when you take into account the Seraiki, Pakhtun and Baluch populations resident there.

 

[LaBong]

Why do you claim that the 9% were Punjabis, instead of residents of Kashmir and the Northern Areas?

Of the top of my head I can point to the induction of the Northern Light Infantry as a regular Army unit after the Kargil conflict as debunking your claim of 'Punjabis being shifted to the Kashmir and NA Column'

Sindhis are 14% of the total Pakistani population and Baluch are 3.57%, according to the 1998 census - so whats wrong with their numbers being where they are currently?

The proportion of Sindhis in the Army is in fact now almost 3% higher than the proportion of Sindhi's in the total population of Pakistan (17% vs 14%) - so even back in 2001 the Sindhi component of the Army was higher than the Sindhi component of the total population.

Northern Light Infantry would not have been 9% of total army.

Anyway I don't think purpose of the article was to show that how Punjabis are over represented in PA. Sindhis are evenly represented in army actually backs up authors claim that Sindh being a stable society where Hindus were replaced by Mohajirs.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Northern Light Infantry would not have been 9% of total army.

No, by itself the NLI was not 9% of the Army, but its induction and the subsequent increase in recruitment in the area debunks your argument that the Army just 'shifted Punjabis into the Kashmir and NA column'.

Anyway I don't think purpose of the article was to show that how Punjabis are over represented in PA. Sindhis are evenly represented in army actually backs up authors claim that Sindh being a stable society where Hindus were replaced by Mohajirs.

Currently the Punjabis are also pretty 'evenly represented in the Army', so using the author's argument, Punjab is pretty stable too, no?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Northern Light Infantry would not have been 9% of total army.

Hmmm.. was digging into the size of the NLI regiment, and it appears to be comprised of 58 Battalions - assuming an average of 800 soldiers per battalion, that is around 46000 soldiers.


9% of the 500,000 strong regular Pakistan Army would be around 45,000 troops - so perhaps the induction of the induction of the NLI regiment into the regular Army did in fact impact the demographics significantly ...

 

[53fd]

The data is not 17.5%, Pakistani defence forces get about 26% of budget after all de-facto expenses on Army are calculated. The Defacto Defence budget reaches somewhere about $8.7 Billion.

For India it is 1.83% of GDP, not 2.8%.

India's military expenditure for 2010 was $34.8 billion, & India's GDP for 2010 was $1.4 trillion. Which is about 2.5% I believe.

The defence allocation remains justbelow 2.5 per cent of the GDP

Indian Defence Budget - India Defence - Security Trends South Asia - Security-Risks.com Caring for your Safety, Life & Security

The overall defense budget in Pakistan is Rs 495 billion, which is about $5.5 billion.

Pakistan Defence Budget 2011-2012 - Pakistan - Security Trends South Asia - Security-Risks.com Caring for your Safety, Life & Security

 

[53fd]

Anyway I don't think purpose of the article was to show that how Punjabis are over represented in PA. Sindhis are evenly represented in army actually backs up authors claim that Sindh being a stable society where Hindus were replaced by Mohajirs.

What do you mean by 'stable'? What does the representation of a province's ethnic group in the Army have to do with the stability of that province? There is no correlation there. The other arguments that the author used trying to prove that Sindh is more 'stable' than Punjab were just as bad.

 

[53fd]

The article is so unbelievably (& laughably) bad, that I have been left rather speechless. Finding correlations in things that have not even the slightest. Talking about the distribution of different ethnic groups, as well as revenues generated to show how 'stable' a province is (both of these are flawed arguments as well). And the icing on the cake, what does any of this have to do with 'why is the Army so popular in Pakistan'? What correlation does 'stability' have with how popular the Army is?

 

[patna_ke_presley]

India's military expenditure for 2010 was $34.8 billion, & India's GDP for 2010 was $1.4 trillion. Which is about 2.5% I believe.



Indian Defence Budget - India Defence - Security Trends South Asia - Security-Risks.com Caring for your Safety, Life & Security

The overall defense budget in Pakistan is Rs 495 billion, which is about $5.5 billion.

Pakistan Defence Budget 2011-2012 - Pakistan - Security Trends South Asia - Security-Risks.com Caring for your Safety, Life & Security

According to World Bank, India GDP was $1.73 Trillion in 2010. And GDP of 1.83% percent is for the Year 2011-2012.
GDP (current US$) | Data | Table

 

[patna_ke_presley]

The article is so unbelievably (& laughably) bad, that I have been left rather speechless. Finding correlations in things that have not even the slightest. Talking about the distribution of different ethnic groups, as well as revenues generated to show how 'stable' a province is (both of these are flawed arguments as well). And the icing on the cake, what does any of this have to do with 'why is the Army so popular in Pakistan'? What correlation does 'stability' have with how popular the Army is?

Worth Watching for you. Pakistani actually spend 17% on Development purpose(Education, Infrastructure, Healthcare) and 26% on defence. Rest is wasted for repaying debt . In this video you are free to point out anything on the anchor but do listen to what Ali Salman is saying. Most of Pakistan budget is wasted in repaying debt.

I read a book about Pakistan in 1987 Pakistan spend whooping 8.5% of GDP on defence and in year 1991 Pakistan defence budget was about half of India's defence budget.

 

[53fd]

According to World Bank, India GDP was $1.73 Trillion in 2010. And GDP of 1.83% percent is for the Year 2011-2012.
GDP (current US$) | Data | Table

This thread is not about the economy, nor about India. The CIA World Factbook gives India's GDP as $1.5 trillion. But anyways, these are the figures given by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) for India, where it says that India's defense spending is about 2.8% of India's GDP:

SIPRI Publications

 

[patna_ke_presley]

This thread is not about the economy, nor about India. The CIA World Factbook gives India's GDP as $1.5 trillion. But anyways, these are the figures given by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) for India, where it says that India's defense spending is about 2.8% of India's GDP:

SIPRI Publications

Percentage of GDP is missing for 2010.

 

[53fd]

Worth Watching for you. Pakistani actually spend 17% on Development purpose(Education, Infrastructure, Healthcare) and 26% on defence. Rest is wasted for repaying debt . In this video you are free to point out anything on the anchor but do listen to what Ali Salman is saying. Most of Pakistan budget is wasted in repaying debt.

I read a book about Pakistan in 1987 Pakistan spend whooping 8.5% of GDP on defence and in year 1991 Pakistan defence budget was about half of India's defence budget.

You don't need to post youtube links to prove your point, some people even make ridiculous claims that 80% of Pakistan's budget is spent on the military. Anyways, according to he Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) for Pakistan, Pakistan's defense spending is 2.8% of Pakistan's GDP:

SIPRI Publications

I have already given you the detailed breakdown, that the overall defense budget in Pakistan is Rs 495 billion, which is about $5.5 billion.

Pakistan Defence Budget 2011-2012 - Pakistan - Security Trends South Asia - Security-Risks.com Caring for your Safety, Life & Security

Pakistan's overall budget was $32 billion.

5.5/32 = 17.5% of the total Budget.

India's defense budget was Rs 1.74 trillion/Rs 1740 billion (about $36 billion) in 2010-2011.

Indian Defence Budget - India Defence - Security Trends South Asia - Security-Risks.com Caring for your Safety, Life & Security

Pakistan's overall budget was $32 billion, & its military budget was $5.5 billion. India's military budget ($36 billion) is more than Pakistan's overall budget ($32 billion).

---------- Post added at 12:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 AM ----------

Percentage of GDP is missing for 2010.

Select the state 'India', & click submit.

You will see the military budget India has had year wise from 1990-2010, & the % of GDP. The % of GDP has fluctuated from 2.5-2.8% consistently for India. Not 1.8% like you were saying.

 

[patna_ke_presley]

This thread is not about the economy, nor about India. The CIA World Factbook gives India's GDP as $1.5 trillion. But anyways, these are the figures given by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) for India, where it says that India's defense spending is about 2.8% of India's GDP:

SIPRI Publications

India's defence budget was 2.12% of GDP for the year 2010-2011 and it is 1.83% of GDP for the year 2011-2012. You can read about that in following links.
Institute for Defense studies and Analyses-India
Defence Allocation Up, GDP Share Down - SP's LandForces

 

[LaBong]

Hmmm.. was digging into the size of the NLI regiment, and it appears to be comprised of 58 Battalions - assuming an average of 800 soldiers per battalion, that is around 46000 soldiers.


9% of the 500,000 strong regular Pakistan Army would be around 45,000 troops - so perhaps the induction of the induction of the NLI regiment into the regular Army did in fact impact the demographics significantly ...

How many of NLI would be ethnic Kashmiris and how many would be from areas near mirpur.

Anyway induction of NLI is quite recent while we discussing events which were the after effect of partition.

 

[patna_ke_presley]

Select the state 'India', & click submit.

You will see the military budget India has had year wise from 1990-2010, & the % of GDP. The % of GDP has fluctuated from 2.5-2.8% consistently for India. Not 1.8% like you were saying.

Buddy, you should check it, investment for year 2010 is given but % of GDP is given upto year 2009 only. budget of $36 Billion is for 2011-2012 , here also you are mutilating the data, above I have put two links you can check about India % of GDP spend on defence.