Why Pakistan must be a secular state: YLH

[SIPRA]

Fully agree with the recommendations of the OP article.

 

[Musafir117]

Chamo bandri at it again

Chamo or Chami
I am happy what we are in
In name of Islam free to sin whatever you want.
BeInsafi
Corrupt
Loot mar
Prostitution
Jhoot
Rishwat
Wo bazi Ye Bazi
Drugs
Weapons
Aur kuch bacha hai?
We happy and don’t need secularism or any ism.

 

[suresh1773]

Articles like these are written by paid actors. Islam is the GLUE which holds Pakistan together and gives it Armed forces the strength to fight Superpowers, and the pathetic country India which is 10 times larger than Pakistan. These evil people know this, and they know that to destroy Pakistan they have to destroy Islam in Pakistan.
So don't fall this BS propaganda from foreign paid useless people.

Islam is the GLUE which holds Pakistan together, what about Bangladesh. What about the recent PTM Movement. What about the MQM protests and the Baloch insurgency.
No religion or race can be a glue which holds a country, otherwise Russia would not have broken in 13 parts or Korea into 2

 

[313ghazi]

There have been islamic states with different forms of governance for over 1400 years. Even today there exist states which implement Shariah in one form or the other - Pakistan included.

Pakistan is not trying anything new. We will not and should not be a secular state. The vast majority of people want the cornerstone of our state to be Islam. What we need is to improve our system of governance and justice to more effective methods. We should use Islamic ideals to guide that, not to merely copy and paste old models, or other peoples models (unless well thought out and modelling shows it would work for us).

 

[PradoTLC]

Absolutely no. Pakistan must be true to its Deen and remain a pure Sharia governed Islamic state. It must give it's minorities a final options to be converted, or pay zizya or get ready to beheaded.
That is what its founding fathers dreamt far.
I also support views of most Pakistani PDF members here that Pakistan must cut all relations from India, no marriages, no Aman Ka tamasha and absolutely no Embassys to each other capitals. It must forget that any population exists beyond it's eastern border.
Thanks.

Like i said this is your false understanding

no where minorities are to be killed...

there is no forced conversion process in Islam ... read surah Kahf

you guys need to stop your shameless lies

but i do agree with you we need to cut off ties 100% . Now go tell your faggot Modi to pay extra and fly around Pakistan

Islam is the GLUE which holds Pakistan together, what about Bangladesh. What about the recent PTM Movement. What about the MQM protests and the Baloch insurgency.
No religion or race can be a glue which holds a country, otherwise Russia would not have broken in 13 parts or Korea into 2

true.. unlike india where Kashmir wants independence and dozens of insurgencies happening in india.. this is proof no body want to be with you clowns

 

[The Accountant]

Absolutely no. Pakistan must be true to its Deen and remain a pure Sharia governed Islamic state. It must give it's minorities a final options to be converted, or pay zizya or get ready to beheaded.
That is what its founding fathers dreamt far.
I also support views of most Pakistani PDF members here that Pakistan must cut all relations from India, no marriages, no Aman Ka tamasha and absolutely no Embassys to each other capitals. It must forget that any population exists beyond it's eastern border.
Thanks.

If you don't know anything about Islam then you should not speak about it...

First of all there is no killing allowed for non-muslims in Islam. The non-believer were ordered to leave Arab and that was due to the fact that non-muslims of Arab were at war with muslims of Arab. Christian and Jews were also exempt from that war.

So that order was only for non-believers living in Arab and not applicable on sub-continent.

Regarding Jizya, it is simply a tax. In Islam tax on muslims is called Zakat and on non-muslims its Jizya and in case of non-payment of Jizya there is no order of killing but to confiscate the property which is in practice every where.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Islam is not the problem. Its muslims.

Muslims are biggest threat to Islam.

Secularism, liberalism or religious fundamentalism are one and same thing. All these -isms are against Nature. Against Life itself.

Are you free?

Is this system - demoncracy, secularism or liberalism or socialism or capitalism your invention?
Did anyone took your input? Did anyone bothered to consider your opinion about it?

When did you became free? Do you have a mind of your own?

Do you have the intellectual capacity to at least have your own thinking?

If you have to copy/paste thinking/lifestyle of others then who are you?

Who are you? What are you? Coconusts? Gora? Brownie? What are you?

Is your Civlisation that ugly that you need to copy/paste others ideas to just live your lives?

Would it be your lives then?


These paid jurnos love to refer to Jinnah's speech about freedom to live lives according to Paks individual faith... be it hindu, muslim or christian or sikh... but do these wannabe gora/liberal even understand what Jinnah was saying? Based on which priciples he was saying this...

Is it not dishonesty on part of the same jurnos to not mention Jinnah's speech a few days later to Karachi Barcouncil or Jinnah's interview to Voice of America radio... or his letter or his instructions...

We do have a problem with #DieselMullahs who use religion as blackmailing tool to gain power...privilege, telling others how to live for they only know the truth.

We do have a problem with #KhooniLiberals who use humanrights as blackmailing tool to gain power...priviledge, telling others how to live for they only know the truth...

Pakistan is the 2nd State. We have failed to become what was our duty to become...

What is muslim?

Is it to have a long beard and big belly? Women in house behind stove? Perda and all...

What happend to Ikhaliaat? What happend to compassion to all Makhlooq e Khuda? Khaqooq ul Abad?

Islam is not the problem. Muslims are!

Can anyone of you claims to be anything? Honestly? Without shed of a doubt?

Unless, you have followed, studied and scrutinised Jinnah's life and his conduct... stop using him as reference.

A Jinnah is born every few hundered years.

Pakistan is the 2nd State. Pakistan shall become the 2nd State only when the principles of the 1st State are implemented.

Ilum ka hasil kurna har Pakistani murd or aurat per farz hae. From cradle to grave that is.

 

[PradoTLC]

@PradoTLC

there is nothing wrong with Islam

Of course I know that. Islam is the best for all true Muslims- esp Pakistani Muslims.

Regards

good ..

now you know why we left stone worhshipping religion. Also it is best for indian muslims.. as you can see no body wants to be a hindu. Except retards.

enjoy your cow piss ice cream

 

[VCheng]

The US Supreme Court once ruled that the mixing of religion and government destroyed the government and degraded religion. Our experience in Pakistan confirms the wisdom of that ruling. The Faizabad Dharna and the protests around Aasia Bibi acquittal show just how destructive our propensity to mix religion with government has been. In the process we have done untold harm to the pristine reputation of the Islamic faith. Truth be told Pakistan must be a secular state for the sake of Islam itself. Repeatedly the instrumentalisation of the faith has brought it into disrepute. Surely we have done no service to Islam or its glory by our actions in this country.

Pakistan must be what a majority of its people want it to be.

 

[Republic]

Like i said this is your false understanding

no where minorities are to be killed...

there is no forced conversion process in Islam ... read surah Kahf

you guys need to stop your shameless lies

but i do agree with you we need to cut off ties 100% . Now go tell your faggot Modi to pay extra and fly around Pakistan.

Why are you pissed ??? That's not my understanding, that is my view. I am putting forth my views over a topic in civilised language. I haven't said there are forced conversions, I said about giving options as allowed in Islam (I may be wrong about options. You may exclude or include some more as per your view). What is the fuss ??

Regarding your love to Modi the faggot, we are living in the "Era of faggots". You will find a faggot ruling every where from USA to Russia, China, Venezuela, Pakistan,Iran or Saudi Arabia.
That is because we, the people have become a faggot. It takes a hell lot of effort in acquiring education, understanding, maturity, civic sense and sense of sacrifice to protect that education for comming out of that faggotness. The best option is to leave that long and difficult road and start calling every other person a faggot and every leader for all the mess and chaos.

 

[hasnainfirst]

https://dailytimes.com.pk/409045/why-pakistan-must-be-a-secular-state/

The US Supreme Court once ruled that the mixing of religion and government destroyed the government and degraded religion. Our experience in Pakistan confirms the wisdom of that ruling. The Faizabad Dharna and the protests around Aasia Bibi acquittal show just how destructive our propensity to mix religion with government has been. In the process we have done untold harm to the pristine reputation of the Islamic faith. Truth be told Pakistan must be a secular state for the sake of Islam itself. Repeatedly the instrumentalisation of the faith has brought it into disrepute. Surely we have done no service to Islam or its glory by our actions in this country.

The hackneyed response to the proposition that Pakistan must be a secular state is that it was created in the name of Islam. Let me state this unequivocally once again -it was not created in the name of Islam, not in any meaningful legal way. The answer to this usually is that the party founding Pakistan was called the Muslim League and the basis of Pakistan was the Two Nation Theory. Let us put aside Jinnah’s famous 11 August speech and stipulate hypothetically that Two Nation Theory is the basis of Pakistan. Is Two Nation Theory a theological restatement or is it a claim to nationhood on behalf of Muslims on purely secular and temporal criteria. This simplistic notion that this group entity called the Muslims of British India shared a common faith and that alone is what made them a nation according to the Two Nation Theory is historically inaccurate. Pick up any key document of the so called Two Nation Theory – be it Rahmat Ali’s pamphlet, Zafrullah Khan’s memorandum or Jinnah’s famous 1940 address- and you will find that the case for Muslims being a nation was based on secular temporal criteria: names, language (Urdu), history, culture, diet etc. This is precisely why the so called Two Nation Theory did not suggest that say Muslims of Arabia or Turkey were the same nation as Muslims of the subcontinent. It is also why there was always an anxiety on Rahmat Ali’s part to seek a separate state for Bengali Muslims.

The debate on religion being culture and as such culture being informed by religion also having a secular purpose has been subject to considerable legal debate. That culture can be informed by religion and that such culture can have a secular purpose is recognised even by the US Supreme Court. In its judgment in the case reported as Lynch v. Donnelly, 465 U.S. 668 (1984), the US Supreme Court laid down the distinguishing feature which itself is called the Lemon test. So applying this test closer to home for example when deciding whether All India Muslim League was a secular party or a religious one, you have to look at the purpose of the party. The purpose of the party was to advance the temporal interests of the Muslims of British India. It therefore served a secular purpose. The word “Islam” does not appear once in the Lahore Resolution. The purpose of the Lahore Resolution was to get the Muslim minority its due share in the governance of the subcontinent. This too was a secular purpose. At no point did anyone in the Muslim League postulate that it would be for an expressly religious purpose i.e. to establish a religious government. So Pakistan cannot be said to have been created in the name of Islam. It is merely a shibboleth nothing else.

Above and beyond this Jinnah gave the 11 August 1947 speech to the Constituent Assembly. This was not a repudiation of the Two Nation Theory but rather a statement that citizenship in Pakistan would not be based on Two Nation Theory. It was a legally binding promise made by the father of the nation to its citizens – Muslims and Non-Muslims- in perpetuity. Most importantly it was made to the Constituent Assembly and has its stand-alone constitutional value. At no point did Jinnah contradict his 11 August speech and certainly not in a speech at the Bar Association dinner on the occasion of Eid-Milad-un-Nabi. However even if he had done so, which he did not, that would be neither here nor there given that his solemn promise in the Constituent Assembly overrides everything else. The 11 August speech had been made in response to Kiran Shankar Roy’s speech in which he had asked Jinnah to make a clear statement as to whether or not Pakistan would be a secular democratic state. 11 August speech is a perfect encapsulation of a secular democratic state at par with the First Amendment to the US Constitution. What is more is that the preamble to our current constitution makes a specific reference to Jinnah and preambles to any constitution can be used to give clarity to unexpressed rights and objectives. We can go on debating Jinnah, the Muslim League, the idea of Pakistan or partition but the fact is that the 11 August speech is a fact that stands in the way of those who want to make Pakistan an exclusivist theocratic state. It is a promise that has been betrayed over and over again. The problem is not necessarily with the Objectives’ Resolution either. After all US too claims to be one nation under God. The problem starts when you reserve offices of the state for Muslims alone. That is what makes Pakistan a theocratic state. Pakistan does much more than that.

Pakistan must be a secular state because by pretending to be an Islamic state and then purporting to legislate in the name of Islam, Pakistan has done more disservice to Islam than any other entity in history. The Imams and Faqihs who gave us the five Madhabs were extremely careful in distancing themselves from the temporal authority because they knew that if something as serious as Fiqh was allowed to become a victim of politics, there would be no independence left and religion would become an instrument for state power. This is why there was never any codification of Fiqh as law before the advent of European powers into Muslim heartlands. Even puritan Aurangzeb who had Fatawa-ul-Alamgiri compiled never made it state law. Genuine Muslim scholars were always wary of state influence. They had reached the same conclusion in the 9th and 10th centuries that US Supreme Court did in 20th Century- mixing religion and government degrades religion and destroys government. Pakistan therefore must be a secular state not just for the sake of its minorities but for Muslims and the future of Islam in its territories. It was Jinnah who had told Raja of Mahmudabad in clear terms that any attempt to create an Islamic state would lead to the very dissolution of the state in Pakistan. That is precisely what we see happening in Pakistan today.

Regards

Secular my *** , we did'nt achieve freedom to be secular but atleast we are better than most secular states including india ...

 

[Republic]

If you don't know anything about Islam then you should not speak about it...

First of all there is no killing allowed for non-muslims in Islam. The non-believer were ordered to leave Arab and that was due to the fact that non-muslims of Arab were at war with muslims of Arab. Christian and Jews were also exempt from that war.

So that order was only for non-believers living in Arab and not applicable on sub-continent.

Regarding Jizya, it is simply a tax. In Islam tax on muslims is called Zakat and on non-muslims its Jizya and in case of non-payment of Jizya there is no order of killing but to confiscate the property which is in practice every where.

I am not talking about Islam. I am putting forward my views as how Pakistan must improve itself to become an ideal Islamic state and must not touch secularism even by a tong to preserve and maintain its purity.

You have every right to differ from my views, no need to explain your religion to a non believer.

Regarding Jizya, it's a very noble ibea in my opinion. I think a tax like Jizya in place of all other taxes may also be imposed on the Muslims living in non Islamic countries and property of Muslims must be confiscated in case of non-payment. Such a holy idea.
Thanks.

 

[PradoTLC]

Why are you pissed ??? . What is the fuss ??

Regarding your love to Modi the faggot, we are living in the "Era of faggots". You will find a faggot ruling every where from USA to Russia, China, Venezuela, Pakistan,Iran or Saudi Arabia.
That is because we, the people have become a faggot. It takes a hell lot of effort in acquiring education, understanding, maturity, civic sense and sense of sacrifice to protect that education for comming out of that faggotness. The best option is to leave that long and difficult road and start calling every other person a faggot and every leader for all the mess and chaos.

***Why are you pissed ???***

Pissed? at what? we are not the ones that lost two frontline planes to an enemy which is less than fraction of it's strength.

***whats is the fuss****

Retarded sterotyping

**Regarding your love to Modi the faggot,***

a unmarried former toilet cleaner... i am guessing he likes men?

 

[SIPRA]

I am not talking about Islam. I am putting forward my views as how Pakistan must improve itself to become an ideal Islamic state and must not touch secularism even by a tong to preserve and maintain its purity.

You have every right to differ from my views, no need to explain your religion to a non believer.

Regarding Jizya, it's a very noble ibea in my opinion. I think a tax like Jizya in place of all other taxes may also be imposed on the Muslims living in non Islamic countries and property of Muslims must be confiscated in case of non-payment. Such a holy idea.
Thanks.

@waz @Dubious @WebMaster

Religion is being discussed, on this thread. Kindly clean the thread.

 

[PradoTLC]

I am not talking about Islam. I am putting forward my views as how Pakistan must improve itself to become an ideal Islamic state and must not touch secularism even by a tong to preserve and maintain its purity.

You have every right to differ from my views, no need to explain your religion to a non believer.

Regarding Jizya, it's a very noble ibea in my opinion. I think a tax like Jizya in place of all other taxes may also be imposed on the Muslims living in non Islamic countries and property of Muslims must be confiscated in case of non-payment. Such a holy idea.
Thanks.

Islam doesnt have a concept of high taxes only 2.5% zakat.