'Why Pakistan does not pay India back in the same coin?'

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Revisiting this thread in the wake of recent events.

 

[SaadH]

Mushy and later Kiani doctrine in place since Oct 12th '99.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Mushy and later Kiani doctrine in place since Oct 12th '99.

Pray, tell us - the unacquainted lay people - what are / were mushy and kayani doctrines?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I am pretty sure Pak pays back to India for the chess game of the state level warfare requires that. Now, how and when Pak does it is known to the core folks at the receiving end.....

What India does, IMO, is out of sheer frustration. Killing innocent kids, women etc. never changes the calculus of the strategic outcome; otherwise, the USA would have won in Vietnam, or the USSR in Afganistan. Raiding on remote outposts also can't demoralize an Army of around 1m strength (including reserves)....

What India really needs vis-a-vis Pak are the following:

• A division within the Army (East Pak style) leading to a Civil War
• The death of the Pak Deep State
• The end of the Chinese global reach as she accepts the US hegemony 100%
• The end of the Chinese demands on the Indian occupied lands
• Etc.

 

[aryadravida]

It's a truth that Pakistan is on the defensive against every terrorist and violence related activities India does/funds in Pakistan. More people have died in Pakistan due to Indian proxies working along Af-Pak border and in Baluchistan than vice-versa. But Pakistan would not pay India back in the same coin.

Why?

The history of Pakistan is its love for experimentation and change. Esp. when it said Naya-Pakistan to align itself with the paradigm shift in international relations where the locus of national power (and hence the quality of life of its citizens) will shift from military to economic.

The answer is a no-brainer - Pakistan does not want to beat India in its [India's] own game. That's because India's activities in Pakistan are designed to get a specifically shaped response from Pakistan which Pakistan is not giving them, and which if Pakistan does, will

1) fortify the image of Pakistan as a hotbed of 'terrorism' in front of international fraternity forever

2) bootstrap India's drive to isolate and tarnish image of Pakistan in the world and in the words of PMIK will discredit Kashmiri's just struggle for self-determination

3) roll back the $100+ billion CPEC

4) scare FDI's/foreign investors coming in Pakistan

5) rob Pakistan of its future leadership of Muslim Ummah

Pakistan is battle-hardened. But it's also policy-hardened. Pakistan is doing something by not doing anything - by not responding to Indian terrorism Pakistan is giving the lawmakers around the world data. Void of any data to blame Pakistan has frustrated Indian diplomatic missions, an hence the need for false-flag operations in Kashmir.

The wars onward will be least somatic and more economic and knowledge-based, and Pakistan has angled itself best by virtue of its geographical location to benefit from this paradigm shift.

In order to win economic wars, violence need to be shed. India does not want Pakistan to do that.

That's why.

Because your army generals are not serious..they are elitist....they dont care about the lives of foot soldiers..besides pakistanis in general dont take these killings from afghans and balochis seriously as any severe action against them may lead to ethnic conflicts.

It may also due to the fact that pak military establishment has realised that any serious confrontation with india can take it back to the time between 2008-2014( post mumbai attacks) when pakistan had to count the number of days in a year without bomb blasts in some corner or the other.

 

[Skimming]

It's a truth that Pakistan is on the defensive against every terrorist and violence related activities India does/funds in Pakistan. More people have died in Pakistan due to Indian proxies working along Af-Pak border and in Baluchistan than vice-versa. But Pakistan would not pay India back in the same coin.

Why?

The history of Pakistan is its love for experimentation and change. Esp. when it said Naya-Pakistan to align itself with the paradigm shift in international relations where the locus of national power (and hence the quality of life of its citizens) will shift from military to economic.

The answer is a no-brainer - Pakistan does not want to beat India in its [India's] own game. That's because India's activities in Pakistan are designed to get a specifically shaped response from Pakistan which Pakistan is not giving them, and which if Pakistan does, will

1) fortify the image of Pakistan as a hotbed of 'terrorism' in front of international fraternity forever

2) bootstrap India's drive to isolate and tarnish image of Pakistan in the world and in the words of PMIK will discredit Kashmiri's just struggle for self-determination

3) roll back the $100+ billion CPEC

4) scare FDI's/foreign investors coming in Pakistan

5) rob Pakistan of its future leadership of Muslim Ummah

Pakistan is battle-hardened. But it's also policy-hardened. Pakistan is doing something by not doing anything - by not responding to Indian terrorism Pakistan is giving the lawmakers around the world data. Void of any data to blame Pakistan has frustrated Indian diplomatic missions, an hence the need for false-flag operations in Kashmir.

The wars onward will be least somatic and more economic and knowledge-based, and Pakistan has angled itself best by virtue of its geographical location to benefit from this paradigm shift.

In order to win economic wars, violence need to be shed. India does not want Pakistan to do that.

That's why.

While reading to the unnecessary post of yours, reminds me a line from a scholar which says, and the world is not nescient to think otherwise that India is no babe in the woods when it comes to terrorism.

Again, your post was unnecessary and explains how indians are full of themselves and will ever be, whereas times outside of india have changed.

Smell a different chai, not the usual one the chai-walla is giving you.

That's because international relations are not based on the same mechanics as personal relations. No matter how you or I want a payback, Pakistan will not respond to a war it has already won - in the past Pakistan's geo-location was a bane, it's a boon now.

That's not to say that Shuhadaa are forgotten. They are never. At least not by Allah. Every soul dying due to India funded terrorist activities is a contribution to Qayam-e-Pakistan. Hate to quantify life but 80,000 is still a low number than 1-2 million died during achieving Pakistan.

The ends, not emotions, are kept in mind when formulating policies as crucial as those affecting the scores of future generations to come.



Don't get worked up too soon.

Don't assume that I do not expect the same from you - reading the post you're replying to.

There's a cardinal concept in my post. You might even find an expression for it in there. Care to read it and point it out to me? I'll help you understand it after you do that.

Else, as your vocabulary is limited to 'shits' & shitty words is no contribution to the thread or place you are in at.

Modi actually has never uttered the name Pakistan a single time ever since Naya Pakistan. Leave uttering the name aside, he's never hinted or alluded to Pakistan at any international fora post-Nawaz.

Sure, ignored Indian trolls. I know why they regularly need to troll, and the reason is in the last sentence of this post.

Feb 27? Don't miss the wood for the trees. August 05, 2019 should have been the point of no return for Pakistan, at least by Indian calculations. But we dodged India even on that. What was a headache to them has only increased ever since.

The lesson for us Pakistan is peace and progress. So that other nationalities in India (there are 32 of them) associate progress with separation from inept Delhi Hindu rule.

And this is going to come without Pakistan firing a single bullet.

If we play into Delhi's game to repay them in kind ... know that Pakistan is the only factor that unites the otherwise divided India.

Storm is chaotic but certainly there's a sigh of relief when one can predict something by only watching the eye of the storm which is what Pakistani policy makers are doing by not playing into India's hands even though the situation would demand otherwise to a common Pakistani who has bore a lot from last 15-20 years.

I have deliberately omitted some spaces in my description of the problem for thinking minds to weigh in or else it becomes stupendous to elaborate what 'slowly-but-surely' policy of achieving goals of Naya Pakistan entails.

Speaking from Pakistan's POV - a country that has studied only one country in detail since its inception - there must be a reason for Pakistan to refrain from paying India back in the same coin. The point to drive home is that if India being

1. A nation of 1.3 billion
2. World's largest democracy with no shortage of strategists
3. Plenty of monetary wealth
4. $70 billion in defense budget
5. Her retired army men on record to pay estranged groups money to conduct suicide bombing in Pakistan (and it takes PKR 1 million to hire a suicide bombing mission)
6. with more than dozen Indian consulates/terror-launch pads in Afghanistan (where only one would have sufficed if it was a legit consulate)
7. Idealizing Kautiliya who says make enemies of your enemies your friends
8. Haven't refrained from using force of state since day one
9. Not new to communal violence
10. Knows how to kill Gandhi soon after the country's inception. Knows how to kill Indira Gandhi.
11. Openly stating belligerent statement against Pakistan in every election campaign
12. Desire to conspire against Pakistan the intent of which is declared, celebrated, and watched with eyes glued to Bollywood content which is the beating pulse of the nation
13. Have the silent approval of West now to do whatever against Muslims or Pakistan
14. Have diplomatic influence with Afghan & Iran government more than Pakistan has
15. Technologically advanced to maintain contacts and pay terrorists money through dark-web, crypto-currency way without leaving a money trail or digital footprint

... does not know how to conduct terrorism, hire proxies to infiltrate the hitherto fence-less border area of its arch rival and create a mayhem here. One needs to be a infant or imbecile to believe that. Sadly majority of Indians think that India is a victim and not a perpetrator of terrorism in the region.

The above mentioned points are not a praise to India in any way. Pakistani policy makers are weighing their tactics of turning the very strengths of India into its [India's] weaknesses, and this entails not paying India back in the same coin. Let them either respect Pakistan or collapse under their own weight. It seems ahead of time to state that.



No country has benefited from a perpetual warfare (Sun Tzu).

There was a time Pakistan's GDP was ahead of India for many years so much so that India adopted the 'five-years plans' model of developing the economy from Pakistan.

Wars happened thereafter. Pakistan found it impossible to recover from wars.

A mind that's fit for waging war is not fit for running the municipal and day-to-day affairs of a welfare state.

With the madman at the helm of affairs in India who's trained in old fashion warfare since his young RSS days, there is no reason to believe that India's GDP growth rate will not fall if it pressed so hard on perpetuating violence even if it has to be on rival's soil. It happens so automatically.

Fortunately, smoking is banned in Ramadan. Try saying something new. Something that's just different from the inventory of the likes of you.



From a country that singled out Pakistan for having troubles with every neighboring country to wanting to isolate Pakistan from the rest of the world, guess which country is starting to have troubles with all its neighbors and their PM is not welcome anymore at the international fora? It wouldn't have been possible without a counter strategy put in place by Pakistan's policy makes even if it consisted of not responding in the same coin. We want to use strengths of India against India itself, and that seems to be working. India is torn between pleasing it's own vote base, covering up the unfulfilled promises done to voters at the end of term, and providing the world with objective data to back its claim against Pakistan isn't working. For exactly that, India desperately wants Pakistan to respond.

No country will find resistance at two fronts easy. Pakistan has other options even if peace in Afghanistan isn't achieved. Pakistan can easily frustrate India by supporting Khalistan movement alongside Kashmir's. China can support Mao's. But instead Pakistan offered Kartarpur Corridor to India.

Why do it yourself when your enemy will do it for you? Use your enemies energies against itself. Not yours.

If Pakistan manages to come out clean through all conflicts, and demonstrate to Indian masses that Pakistan is not their enemy, trust me, Indians will take it on each other. Hitherto, we've have not given a chance for them to do so.



The likes of him commit suicide at the end. Seriously.

Or that war is simply boring? And we've had enough of it. Let those who are newbies enjoy it while we explore new dimensions of modern strategy.

Anyways, we're the first in the region to experiment things out. Unlike our neighbors, we put no emphasis on copying.

I don't say that lightly.

RSS was built in reaction to Khudai Khidmagar Movement by Muslims.

India built Air Defense Command after PAF did so.

They recently made an appointment of CDS copying CJSC of Pakistan.

Already copied the 5-years plan way of economic development.

India inducted female fighter pilots copying Pakistan.

They changed the constitutional status of Kashmir after Pakistan changed constitutional status of FATA.

All blames of Baluchistan occupation of Pakistan is based on difficult annexation of independent princely states of Rajasthan continued till late 1960s.

Yes, India gasps for breath when trying to come up with anything original.

Recently India praised ISPR for managing the war frenzy effectively. They might create a Tri-Services Spokesperson for their as an attempt to copy ISPR.

Plus, they might start to wear their flag on left arm of their uniform copying Pakistan.

Wasn't expecting it but they plan to build their parliament on the same footings as Pakistan's. Rajnath returned angry from Pakistan but maybe spoke of Islamabad's natural beauty that Delhi needed to incorporate badly into their capital.

Respect those who you learn from dear kid.

Although a tangential comment from you, this one really deserves a reply. Because you've touched upon a sensitive topic of naming oneself.

How about changing your name from India to something else? Because India was a British colony. And your constitution rightly emphasized your country to be called Bharat. Your country derives name from a river which forms the lifeline of Pakistan. Your national anthem does not have the name of Indus in it. Why not name yourself Gangsters after River Ganga and our Foreign Minister's job is done. Hell, why are you still including the names of two sovereign territories of Pakistan unless you are a revisionist state and want partition to be undone?

This is a further evidence that India copies others. They've yet to come up with an original name for their country. Their transgender goes to this and that country and tell people India & Pakistan used to be once country before independence. W-T-F ?

India was never a country before Pakistan came into being. India was a colony. Repeat it after me:
INDIA WAS A BRITISH COLONY.

No wonder our neighbor is really bad at coming up with something original, with something fresh and that will impress the world.

And don't let me get started on Bollywood, it's gonna destroy the taste of this thread.



What is there for us to copy from Bharat? Enlighten us.

Bharat, the real and new name of Hindu India the country as envisaged in the first line of its constitution.

Just tell us anything that we copy from you. We'll give you credit for that.



That is why they want Pakistan to react, to give credence to their narrative because when their diplomats go to other nations they face critical questions for which Bharat needs data, fresh data which they don't have to substantiate their false claims of terrorism on Pakistan and which is why Pakistan won't give them any such response.

Now failing to obtain such and such a reaction from Pakistan, they are compelled to create false-flag Pathankot, Uri, Pulwama to stuff their own narrative.

To counter this, our diplomats have diligently taken into confidence their counterparts including debreifing P-5 ambassadors whenever such a danger is imminent exposing the formulaic approach of fascist sarkar of Delhi, and how their actions will lead to instability in the region.

It's not for nothing that Hijra PM has once again started to be unwelcome everywhere in the world.



Bharatiya's don't realize it but they are simply obsessed with Pakistan for obvious reasons - their route to glory passes through Pakistan.

Wrong.

Historically, Bharat refers to the present day territories Pakistan, Nepal & Bangladesh. The inverted U if you will put above the map of Melukhkha it will cover it from three sides.

That's when Bhuddism started to take root in these regions that the ancient Melukhkhians started to call out the name of these regions as Bharat and badly wanted to take these territories back from Buddhist influence.

Now don't manipulate this fact that Bharat was named after some King Bharata who freed the regions of present day Pakistan, Nepal and Bangladesh because he didn't, Bhuddist left the region without violence and war because they didn't believe in bloodshed. They moved to Tibet, China, Korea, and Japan. If you start to name your country after one Raja, many other Raja's alongwith other mythological figures will be disappointed. So dont even try that. No single person can defeat a religion or take an entire territory back. Just like you guys invented the Hindu name Kashya to refer the origins of name Kashmir because guess what? It's so easy to invent. Talking comes easy to you guys, and research difficult.

That said, the "Indian" constitution as unoriginal a piece of document it is records the name of land as Bharat wrongly.

This original and the oldest name of when this civilization was thriving alongside Mesopotamia was Melukhkha.

Craft your name along the lines of Melukhkha to claim an originality.

PS: I have yet to know Melukhkha and Maleecha are cousin words. They so sound related. Anyways it's the most original (and most ancient) word Meluhhians had for themselves.



Forget 32. A mere 2 are enough to create a fracture line in the fabric of 'the largest democracy of the world,' and you know which 2 am I talking about. Thank Pakistan a ton who does not fan these as much as it could and should have in addition to blocking the eastward winds of terrorism without absorbing which Malukhkha would have jolted to its core and there would have been no one to blame.

1. Melukhkha (The most ancient name of land as recorded in Sumerian and Mesopotemian texts)
2. Jambudvipa (from Purana text)
3. Aryavarta (Aryans invaded and named it)
4. Nabhivarsa (from Jain texts)
5. Bharata (after reducing the rising budhist influence the land was named after the king)
6. India (Greek invaders named it)
7. Hindustan (Persian rulers of India names it)
8. British India (the colony)
9. Bharat (the constitution of India calls it)

I told you what plenty Indians don't know. Pick one.

Hint: Don't pick the name what your constitution chooses to retain an originality.



Pakistan does not copy its name or rely on others to define it. It's an original name.

What part of that you find difficult to understand?

That's really a practical way of thinking. But I'll tell you what's not practical. India was a colony. Indians (Modi answered a US journalist on his visit to Trump in USA) give an impression that their 'country' was divided by Muslims - India never was a country to begin with. That's factually wrong. Jinnah preferred to call partition by Muslims India (Pakistan) & Hindu India (Bharat).

And I tell you what's more practical. Countries, when they make or break do a reality check and change their names accordingly. USSR after breaking did a reality check and named itself Russia. East Pakistan named itself Bangladesh. But India is still India even after imploding. Burma renamed itself to Myanmar because it was called Burma under British rule.

When India does not do a reality check, calls it by a name based on the River Indus forming the lifeline of Pakistan, forgets River Ganga which is included in their national anthem, not declude two sovereign territories of Pakistan from their national anthem to signal a co-existence to its neighbor, the original Pakistan will always be there to thwart India's revisionist and expansionist tendencies as demonstrated by the existence of two countries by 70 years.

On the internet, and outside of it I find it very tiresome to make 'Indians' understand. If one understands, the other doesn't. But Pakistani's aren't worried about anything as long as Indians are not practical or don't do serious thinking except for going where the blowing wind takes them to.

Something is seriously limiting your sense of wonder.

Give me an example of a country which was formed

1. On the basis of ideology
2. Had two wings when it came

... in the history of the world.

Once you answer me, we can continue the discussion.



Mention Ukraine, and Belarus and any other microscopic country but hide Kazakhstan equal in size to India. We see the bias here. Is it because Kazakhstan is Islamic? and you don't want greatness to be associated with Islam? Yes. Right.



India is in denial that the colony has been split. A reality check will help you minus names of two sovereign Pakistani territories from your national anthem. That's called a reality check. Wrong with India is that it's filled with unoriginality. Wrong with Indians is that they don't question their unoriginality. The most dangerous in the world is Hindu fundamentalism.

They did it to revert changes done to them by colonialists. India - a name given to it by outsiders - has yet to witness such a change.

But oh, India is closely following what Myanmar 'military' did next: Amend citizenship law and exclude Rohingya's from the list. Good.



River Indus flows through Kashmir, and Kashmir is not India.



Tell this to your national anthem.

I'm a Madressah graduate. I can only answer questions I understand.

You're a graduate of this

You need to learn to formulate questions.

The very idea of Pakistan is achieving tranquility for Muslims of Subcontinent, and goes against fighting unless Kashmir is failed. Should you do justice to Kashmir with Pakistan and people of Kashmir as its parties we wont find any time to studying you let alone fighting with you on anything.

That said, the maker of Pakistan was never mistaken to call it Hindu India (or Hindustan) in his speeches.

An airline pilot can crash one plane. An uneducated Prime Minister crashes the entire country.



We understand why USSR was not a country. USA is not a country by the same measure. Nor is UK. Certainly not the EU. When you put U- there, it becomes a Union. For this reason, the proposal to call India by United States of India which otherwise looks very sexy to you guys but gets shot down it will fuel the separatist sentiments in the union members. But that's not the point.

The point is if UN membership is the basis a country can claim sovereignty, then Taiwan is part of China.

A colony is not a country which India was. After the historic change it went through it needed a reality check.

But no. Not only would India retain the name of its parent colony but would also include the names of territories that are parts of guess who?

This needs a soul searching.



Modi can't face Imran Khan as Pakistan's PM in spite of that. Modi grew pale and fidgety having our health minister on video conference. Inferiority complex you know? Part of Hindu India's DNA and wanting a name that paints a larger than life picture of you guys.



Empathize with me for enjoying Eid, replies can wait.

Don't try to be an expert on me.



If you dislike my Madressah status, feel free to not read me. If you dislike what I've to say, turn a deaf ear to it.

In Madressah primary mode of teaching is face to face, and primary mode of exam is oral. If you need help with your exam in Maha Bharat, try this

There's an attempt to derail the discussion from its line of argumentation. Happens when Indians go reality-shy.

By no means would your comment provide a cover to your fellows who failed to answer relevant questions.



Any change in status-quo warrants a reality check. The grandeur adopted by India in its narratives is a direct indicator of its slave past.

Besides I don't get a comment from you on Taiwan being part of China if UN membership makes a country sovereign.



Thank you.

Elephant is 7x bigger than horse. History of India is witness to stately Indian elephants losing to nimble footed Muslim horses.

Regarding what Indians say, yes we've allowed them to copy us.

Bluff and bluster...

@-blitzkrieg- @Maula Jatt @Mentee @SIPRA @El Sidd

 

[Maula Jatt]

Bluff and bluster...

@-blitzkrieg- @Maula Jatt @Mentee @SIPRA @El Sidd

Why are you mentioning me though?

 

[Skimming]

@Trailer23,

This thread isn't aging well. Kaha mar gaya iss thread ka OP, @Lt General?

 

[Trailer23]

@Trailer23,

This thread isn't aging well. Kaha mar gaya iss thread ka OP, @Lt General?

Apni ma ke choot may check keya?

Souna hai lounge ka size ka hai.

 

[Al_Muhannad]

• A division within the Army (East Pak style) leading to a Civil War
• The death of the Pak Deep State
• The end of the Chinese global reach as she accepts the US hegemony 100%
• The end of the Chinese demands on the Indian occupied lands

Excellent points

Guess who is responsible for it