Why pakistan and india are fighting over kashmir?

[SecularNationalist]

See because of the historical facts of kashmir and the desire of the muslim population of kashmir to join pakistan there is no way india deserves a inch of kashmir.Based on the paksitan ideology and the partition after wards kashmir would be part of pakistan.Britishers installed a hindu raja in muslim majority kashmir does not change the facts.I agree everything in this video other than what the said about the human right abuses on both sides.Human right abuses are only in IOK not in azad kashmir. IOK is the main root cause of kashmir conflict.

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[T90TankGuy]

68 Yrs have passed , and you guys still harp about Kashmir. lets be honest , you cant afford to maintain her. Infrastructure in your country is bad without adding another province. You guys are struggling to get a bus(called metro) project off the ground,
also the dispute can only be about the valley then (if one is to take your argument about Muslim majority)the rest does not have a Muslim majority.

Do refute me with facts and not rhetoric ,

IMHO turn the LOC into the IB is the best alternative towards this disagreement.

 

[volcano]

India didnot believe in 2 nation theory

 

[Icarus]

68 Yrs have passed , and you guys still harp about Kashmir. lets be honest , you cant afford to maintain her. Infrastructure in your country is bad without adding another province. You guys are struggling to get a bus(called metro) project off the ground,
also the dispute can only be about the valley then (if one is to take your argument about Muslim majority)the rest does not have a Muslim majority.

Do refute me with facts and not rhetoric ,

IMHO turn the LOC into the IB is the best alternative towards this disagreement.

To be absolutely candid here, 10 years ago, I would have walked all over you if you had given this line of argument but given the present circumstances, Pakistan's existing problems and the fact that we are already a nation in social, economic and security turmoil, there is no way that we can make a case for Kashmir to cede to us. The dynamics of global politics are also changing and it is in both nation's interests to forge a cordial trade relationship if not a friendly one that can work for the alleviation of poverty in the region, however, backtracking from the claim to Kashmir will hit Pakistan at what has been constructed to be one of the core components of its identity and a weakened nation might not be able to take that blow.
Its thus an interesting paradox, we can't take Kashmir and we also can't stop hoping that we will take it.

 

[rockstarIN]

To be absolutely candid here, 10 years ago, I would have walked all over you if you had given this line of argument but given the present circumstances, Pakistan's existing problems and the fact that we are already a nation in social, economic and security turmoil, there is no way that we can make a case for Kashmir to cede to us. The dynamics of global politics are also changing and it is in both nation's interests to forge a cordial trade relationship if not a friendly one that can work for the alleviation of poverty in the region, however, backtracking from the claim to Kashmir will hit Pakistan at what has been constructed to be one of the core components of its identity and a weakened nation might not be able to take that blow.
Its thus an interesting paradox, we can't take Kashmir and we also can't stop hoping that we will take it.

Renaming 'Jammu & kashmir' to Jammu & ladakh
Renaming 'Azad' Kashmir, GB to 'GB & Kashmir.

Win-win situation !

 

[Zibago]

Renaming 'Jammu & kashmir' to Jammu & ladakh
Renaming 'Azad' Kashmir, GB to 'GB & Kashmir.

Win-win situation !

GB and Azad Kashmir are very different in culture,geography and history

 

[Icarus]

Renaming 'Jammu & kashmir' to Jammu & ladakh
Renaming 'Azad' Kashmir, GB to 'GB & Kashmir.

Win-win situation !

It might just work

 

[rockstarIN]

GB and Azad Kashmir are very different in culture,geography and history

So is Jammu, Ladakh and even Vally!

 

[Zibago]

It might just work

Inka kia?

 

[Armstrong]

To be absolutely candid here, 10 years ago, I would have walked all over you if you had given this line of argument but given the present circumstances, Pakistan's existing problems and the fact that we are already a nation in social, economic and security turmoil, there is no way that we can make a case for Kashmir to cede to us. The dynamics of global politics are also changing and it is in both nation's interests to forge a cordial trade relationship if not a friendly one that can work for the alleviation of poverty in the region, however, backtracking from the claim to Kashmir will hit Pakistan at what has been constructed to be one of the core components of its identity and a weakened nation might not be able to take that blow.
Its thus an interesting paradox, we can't take Kashmir and we also can't stop hoping that we will take it.

Oi stop using my lands as a bargaining chip, Sethi Sahib !

Hum Kashmiriyon ne aap ka kiya bigaraa haiii that you're linking us to paradoxes and what not ?

Khair jokes aside; there is no paradox nor do we need to make a case for Kashmir to cede to us. Maintaining our legitimate stand over Kashmir and working towards economically strengthening Pakistan are not mutually exclusive to each other. Its not as if by saying that the Kashmiris are being denied their legitimate right to self-determination or that the Indian state has used everything from rape to murder as an instrument of domestic policy over there, constitutes as an advocacy of saying 'lads pick up your arms and lets liberate Kashmir'.

No need to rake up the Kashmir issue more than we traditionally do - Talk about it at the UN, meet the Hurriyat, touch upon it at Secretary level talks etc. but otherwise have an introverted approach; which is to say that work towards strengthening Pakistan from the inside and learning how the game works before continuing to play it - In short take a break from everything that doesn't contribute to Pakistan's economic development.

On the other hand we must also realize that India is a rising power in the region which has an over-inflated opinion of herself as the nucleus of South Asia around which everything revolves. It envisions herself as the second coming of some mythical Greater India in the modern sense. Which means the rest of us are supposed to keep our territories and everything but fall in line by recognizing the star player in the room. Right now India is in the throes of getting to grips with her reality as a significant military and economic power of the region with extra-regional aspirations. If we continue on falling in line it will only serve to further strengthening her border-line hegemonic delusions.

Therefore I think Pakistan should be firm but not needlessly confrontational in her stance over her core issues so that the tone of a new Indo-Pak relationship isn't set to our detriment.

Aur Sethi Sahib kiya ho rahaa haii aaj kal ?

 

[Icarus]

Inka kia?

I sympathize with the people who have been wronged, however, I doubt that my sympathy will make Srinagar fall.

Oi stop using my lands as a bargaining chip, Sethi Sahib !

Hum Kashmiriyon ne aap ka kiya bigaraa haiii that you're linking us to paradoxes and what not ?

Khair jokes aside; there is no paradox nor do we need to make a case for Kashmir to cede to us. Maintaining our legitimate stand over Kashmir and working towards economically strengthening Pakistan are not mutually exclusive to each other. Its not as if by saying that the Kashmiris are being denied their legitimate right to self-determination or that the Indian state has used everything from rape to murder as an instrument of domestic policy over there, constitutes as an advocacy of saying 'lads pick up your arms and lets liberate Kashmir'.

No need to rake up the Kashmir issue more than we traditionally do - Talk about it at the UN, meet the Hurriyat, touch upon it at Secretary level talks etc. but otherwise have an introverted approach; which is to say that work towards strengthening Pakistan from the inside and learning how the game works before continuing to play it - In short take a break from everything that doesn't contribute to Pakistan's economic development.

On the other hand we must also realize that India is a rising power in the region which has an over-inflated opinion of herself as the nucleus of South Asia around which everything revolves. It envisions herself as the second coming of some mythical Greater India in the modern sense. Which means the rest of us are supposed to keep our territories and everything but fall in line by recognizing the star player in the room. Right now India is in the throes of getting to grips with her reality as a significant military and economic power of the region with extra-regional aspirations. If we continue on falling in line it will only serve to further strengthening her border-line hegemonic delusions.

Therefore I think Pakistan should be firm but not needlessly confrontational in her stance over her core issues so that the tone of a new Indo-Pak relationship isn't set to our detriment.

Aur Sethi Sahib kiya ho rahaa haii aaj kal ?

As ever Butt Sahab, an eloquent response. However, I would like to point out that although the claim to Kashmir and Economic Prosperity are not mutually exclusive, the legitimacy of our claim and national stability are. Under these circumstances, there is nothing we can offer the Kashmiris that would convince them to side with us. The demand for complete independence has become more popular precisely due to the fact that Pakistan is no longer the type of state that Kashmiris aspire to associate with.

Doosra, yaar kiya hona hai aaj kal? Bas wohi typical kaam.

 

[Armstrong]

As ever Butt Sahab, an eloquent response. However, I would like to point out that although the claim to Kashmir and Economic Prosperity are not mutually exclusive, the legitimacy of our claim and national stability are. Under these circumstances, there is nothing we can offer the Kashmiris that would convince them to side with us. The demand for complete independence has become more popular precisely due to the fact that Pakistan is no longer the type of state that Kashmiris aspire to associate with.

Doosra, yaar kiya hona hai aaj kal? Bas wohi typical kaam.

Oh thank you Sethi Sahib for the complement !

But why would we even need to consider whether Pakistan is an attractive proposition to the Kashmiris or not ? That would only be a cause for concern to us were a Scotland like referendum were looming right over us which it isn't and would probably never be till this region has a bit more maturity and bit less insecurity in who they are. Right now just maintain our stance but focus on ourselves first.

Briefly learn how the game is played; learn how if you've got the right nuisance value even your most horrendous acts that can never be condoned get rationalized away. In short learn from Israel, India and the US. Learn the power of words, drama and above all economics. In the meantime concentrate with ripening restlessness on kick starting Pakistan's economy and solving the internal challenges that Pakistan faces.

Besides Sethi Sahib I am a Kashmiri....do you think I'd ever abandon Pakistan just because economically or socially its not the paradise we all wanted it to be ? I don't take out a weighing scale and weigh the pros and cons of being a Pakistani...I feel privileged every single day to be born as one because for me my relationship with the State of Pakistan is not a rational construct it is purely an emotional construct - I love it and I don't need a reason to love it. There are countless many like me. Aaap ne tou eik hi pal mein paraya kar diyaa ?

 

[Icarus]

Oh thank you Sethi Sahib for the complement !

But why would we even need to consider whether Pakistan is an attractive proposition to the Kashmiris or not ? That would only be a cause for concern to us were a Scotland like referendum were looming right over us which it isn't and would probably never be till this region has a bit more maturity and bit less insecurity in who they are. Right now just maintain our stance but focus on ourselves first.

Briefly learn how the game is played; learn how if you've got the right nuisance value even your most horrendous acts that can never be condoned get rationalized away. In short learn from Israel, India and the US. Learn the power of words, drama and above all economics. In the meantime concentrate with ripening restlessness on kick starting Pakistan's economy and solving the internal challenges that Pakistan faces.

Besides Sethi Sahib I am a Kashmiri....do you think I'd ever abandon Pakistan just because economically or socially its not the paradise we all wanted it to be ? I don't take out a weighing scale and weigh the pros and cons of being a Pakistani...I feel privileged every single day to be born as one because for me my relationship with the State of Pakistan is not a rational construct it is purely an emotional construct - I love it and I don't need a reason to love it. There are countless many like me. Aaap ne tou eik hi pal mein paraya kar diyaa ?

I am merely suggesting that we are losing legitimacy and relevance in the Kashmir issue, our theatrics can only keep up afloat for so much longer before our position is completely overtaken by the pro-Freedom camp and then we will have not one, but two parties to contend with for the Kashmir issue.
As for your sentiments about born Pakistani, that is something that the average Kashmiri in J&K can not relate to, he has never lived life as a Pakistani and relies on what he hears from others that construct his ideas about Pakistan. Previously it was words like sanctuary, progress, strong. These days they are terrorism, blasts, lynching, inflation.
Its not difficult to see why the proverbial young Kashmiri with a hidden Pakistani flag stashed under his bed will one day feel that the flag is losing its appeal and look for another.

Yaar Butt Sahab last para main toh aap senti hogaye, academic debate hai yaar dil pay toh na lay

 

[third eye]

backtracking from the claim to Kashmir will hit Pakistan at what has been constructed to be one of the core components of its identity and a weakened nation might not be able to take that blow.
Its thus an interesting paradox, we can't take Kashmir and we also can't stop hoping that we will take it.

The nation did survive after all after the loss of East Pakistan didn't it ?

The first principle of warfare is not to reinforce a failed attack & Pakistan is doing just that for 6 + decades. The greatest loser being Pak itself.

Jinnah lamented on getting a ' moth eaten Pakistan'. Those who followed him have only made it worse. To save whats left some hard decisions need to be taken.

The simplest one would be something we S Asians excel in - ignore a problem, pretend it does not exist live a neighbourly life . Encourage trade and other exchanges and let the next generation decide if its worth losing your head over a piece of tail.

 

[Taygibay]

Troll mode on :

Based on the paksitan ideology and the partition after wards

What is paKSitan ideology and which wards are we talking about exactly?
Troll mode off.

Oh, shoot, Troll mode right back on :

Why India and Pakistan …
Because the region is secretly rich : just make it a separate state,
have it base its economy on sweaters and hashish then open huge
casinos all over the place to lure in tourists from all over the world,
thereby making it the Switzerland/Monaco/Indian reservation ( US meaning )
of western Asia and a buffer to Pak_Bharat animosity where China's
rich folks will come and spend their hard earned US dollars gladly.

Voilà, problem solved and peace on Earth …
Troll mode finally off.

Oooooooops, I did it again! Tay.