Why not the Swedish JAS 39 Gripen?

[lalak jaan]

the thing i don't understand is why pakistan rejected the grapen over the F-16 over the past 2 decades we should have realized that american aid depends on american ambitions....america only gives us arsenal when it deems that it will be used for fighting for the american cause....so why buy F-16's which can easily be without spares within the next 5 years or so when american changes its stance...because it is imminent that america sooner or later will abandon pakistan!! so i say lets just buy swedish equipment!!

 

[niaz]

the thing i don't understand is why pakistan rejected the grapen over the F-16 over the past 2 decades we should have realized that american aid depends on american ambitions....america only gives us arsenal when it deems that it will be used for fighting for the american cause....so why buy F-16's which can easily be without spares within the next 5 years or so when american changes its stance...because it is imminent that america sooner or later will abandon pakistan!! so i say lets just buy swedish equipment!!

As I undesrtand it, Grippen uses US engines and US didnot agree to Swedes selling Grippen to Pakistan with US made powerplant.

 

[hoodhood1]

Few years back Swedes did offer Grippen to PK and we opted for F-16. I think Senecma engines from France can be installed in Grippen.

 

[Neo]

Gripen was rejected for two reasons:
1 - Lack of funds
2 - High amount of American technology involved in the project amking it vulnerable for future sanctions.

When the sanctions were lifted PAF evaluated different designs including the Gripen, Rafale, Typhoon and even some Russian planes. The dicision to go for the block F-16C/D is not politically motivated but rather based on feasibility.
Using this option saved huge investments in infrastructure and training, hence I see this deal to be a stop-gap measure till the JF-17 and J-10/FC-20 will get IOC.

Reportedly the Jas-39 NG will have less American technology which makes it more attractive for export, PAF migh re-evaluate the new design in near future.

 

[mujahideen]

A reason in my opinion for the rejection of the Gripen and I could be wrong is that the PAF is use to the F-16's.

 

[Quwa]

It appears JF-17 is being propped up to match up against Gripen...they're both light 4th generation fighters anyways, I don't see why not. Secondly, with a light 4th generation fighter in the bag - and in numbers of 150-250 - the next thing would be to procure a 4.5 generation fighter. That I think will be covered with the FC-20 purchase.

The Block-52+ purchase is more of a stop-gap so that PAF has breathing space to fully integrate the FC-20 and JF-17 into its structure.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Lalak Jaan,

Some members are going to shoot me for being too repetitive. Last year, the air Marshall in his interview stated that PAF at that time could not absorb the technology that the grippen had. Plus PAF has a better chance of keeping these aircraft afloat in case there are problems---parts and accessories are easily available on the market.

You can also check out the old posts as well. We had alots of discussion on this topic. A lot of blood was spilt.

 

[solid snake]

The PAF chief himself compared the JF-17 to the Gripen. After the first 50 planes, the western avionics and engine improvements will mean that it will in fact be just as good as the Gripen. Sweden is just as likely to place restriction on sales on Pakistan in case of a conflict, since America will put pressure on them.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

As per the 4.5 Generation requirement for PAF, i would say when India goes Ahead with MRCA then Pakistan can not wait for a day for FC20 or J-10 or Whatever from China!

PAF has to choose from Rafle or Euro Fighter, atleast 2 Squadrons.

Gripen will be a match for JF-17 in few years time.

 

[Quwa]

Hi Lalak Jaan,

Some members are going to shoot me for being too repetitive. Last year, the air Marshall in his interview stated that PAF at that time could not absorb the technology that the grippen had. Plus PAF has a better chance of keeping these aircraft afloat in case there are problems---parts and accessories are easily available on the market.

You can also check out the old posts as well. We had alots of discussion on this topic. A lot of blood was spilt.

ACM said that because someone asked why PAF never sought full production transfer whenever it bought Gripen, F-16, etc...without going into the political details, he said it was impossible in such a short-span of time. The JF-17 project itself is in prolongued stages for a requirement of 150-250 aircraft...to get Gripen's production line, PAF would need a very large requirement and a lot of time - something it cannot afford with the West.

As for the 4.5 generation requirement...it is being covered with FC-20/J-10, like it or not PAF is not getting EF or Rafale - it is extremely unlikely at this point.

 

[SU-27]

I think Pakistan needn't buy the JAS39,because Pakistan can produce JF17 by themself and will improve JF17 after a few years ,also Pakistan will get JF20.so if buy the JAS39,it's waste of money and resource(use JAS39 need money,train,maintenance and so on),if a country buy many kinds fighter plane from other different countries ,The country will have more burthen

 

[Owais]

I think Pakistan needn't buy the JAS39,because Pakistan can produce JF17 by themself and will improve JF17 after a few years ,also Pakistan will get JF20.so if buy the JAS39,it's waste of money and resource(use JAS39 need money,train,maintenance and so on),if a country buy many kinds fighter plane from other different countries ,The country will have more burthen

Exactly!
we cannot afford light weight fighters of almost same requirements from 2 origns the more diversified fleet, more will be problems to maintain them!

 

[ahussains]

Exactly!
we cannot afford light weight fighters of almost same requirements from 2 origns the more diversified fleet, more will be problems to maintain them!

But i am always in Favour of JAS39 F-16 is almost at the end of there life time and after the MLU (if we get it) it will expend its life time for upto 10 years maximum, and i am not a great fan of J-10 /FC 20 not dought it is a nice plane we have no problem to get it, but it need's also 4 to 5 years to J-10 in PAF because we are so far not satisfied with the Avionics pack and evaluating the westren avionics for it and its not easy to put chinees and westren technology on the same table and they share there technical issuse openly.

But on the other JAS 39 is a complete westren fighter along AESA radar and the new JAS39 NG version is also comming and it can easily compatiable with Erieye Radar which we have at the end to this year ..

If we put Saudis toghter with and they just forget the Eurofighter and around 200+ planes for both country along with a complete technology transfer and a production and assembley line agreement in Pakistan or in Saudia Arabia.

How SAAB or any one refuse this, it will be a bigger deal then the Indian MRCA deal of 126 A/C.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

As we are getting the F 16's, it did not make any sense to go after the grippen anymore. I guess the developments in the design of the JF 17 came out more favourable than originally anticipated. Plus with the electronics package that maybe available for this fighter plus a more powerful engine in the future, could put it close to or the same class as the grippen if not superior.

My thinking is that the PAF studied the grippen real deep so that they could implement some of its technology mindset in the JF 17 thunder. Just think like this---you have a plane being manufactured and then you are looking somewhere else to buy another plane within the same design parameters. What does that tell you----possibly you just wanted some inside information into the design and operation of that aircraft. Pakistan got that information and now we have a technically superior JF 17 than the first and second sample. When the second batch of 50 JF 17's starts coming in, they will be as superior as the grippen for almost half the price. And this second batch should be on its way by 2010-2011. I don't think that grippen would be available to us by that time.

Based upon these premises, I realize and understand that all the news that comes out at a certain time is not all the news. There is more of it that is not being told. So the bottomline is that if we don't hear what we want to or what we like, doesnot mean that we need to take that interaction in a negative manner. We need to look at the relationship with other countries on a long term basis, keep a smile on our face, head held high, shoulders square and heals clicking. Don't let them see you sweat.

 

[Quwa]

In the case that F-16 doesn't come, I am willing to bet that PAF will show more interest in a MiG-35 variant than any European fighter. One reason is that the U.S. is the line regarding Western weapons...if they sanction us, then Sweden & EADS will as well. Second reason is that if France is still willing to sell to Pakistan, then it is very likely that Pakistan will only limit cooperation in the naval field. Third reason...in terms of logistics, the MiG-35 and JF-17 could share the same engine and radar - and in terms of finances, the MiG-35 would be cheaper than Rafale. If Russia refuses to sell...who gives a toss, they'll lose out even more when neither Pakistan, India or China will need them.