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Why not free Qadri?

you are wrong, those conservatives are million times more patriotic than the liberals who are 3% of population, and the liberals only want america to be their big boss and role model, while conservatives want a separate independent system so that west doesnt play with us, like it does

pakistan is a country on the cross roads, liberalism was not the pakistan's foundation, and given the culture differences from east to west, without conservatism, pakistan would crumble, under liberal yahya khan, pakistan broke into pieces

conservates are million times more genuine abt their patriotism, nobody wants to live in 7th century, all pakistanis want a better system better life, but the liberal elites are corrupting the system, conservatives are striving to get rid of these elites

also liberals always bring religion as issue to make their point, conservatives say, lets concentrate on nation building and forget every difference

---------- Post added at 04:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:44 AM ----------



you are wrong, those conservatives are million times more patriotic than the liberals who are 3% of population, and the liberals only want america to be their big boss and role model, while conservatives want a separate independent system so that west doesnt play with us, like it does

pakistan is a country on the cross roads, liberalism was not the pakistan's foundation, and given the culture differences from east to west, without conservatism, pakistan would crumble, under liberal yahya khan, pakistan broke into pieces

conservates are million times more genuine abt their patriotism, nobody wants to live in 7th century, all pakistanis want a better system better life, but the liberal elites are corrupting the system, conservatives are striving to get rid of these elites

also liberals always bring religion as issue to make their point, they want to be anti religion more than they want a prosperity, conservatives say, lets concentrate on nation building and forget every differences

---------- Post added at 04:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 AM ----------

the prove of my theory is, salman taseer never cared about bringing better life to punjab, while he rode on mercedes, he never cared about increasing life standards there, but as he was liberal minded, he started using religion to gain fame, he never bothered to provide progress and prosperity to the poor people, so as i say liberals are hypocrites bunch ruling the country

No way. You have your percentages mixed up. Those conservatives are ruining our country by forcefully imposing their beliefs on the rest of us. Jinnah's vision of Pakistan was a Pakistan of many religions living in Harmony of the Green Banner. Also just because liberals criticize the state that Doesn't mean they aren't Patriotic infact it takes guts to say that there are problems we need to address and these are the problems in our society.

Here's a fun fact it was my uncle Zia that invited the Americans.
 
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^^ who was yahya khan, a liberal, who is zardari, a liberal, who was musharraf a liberal, who was benazir, a liberal, who was yaqub khan, a liberal, was was, who was ghulam muhammad, a liberal, was was iskandar mirza a liberal

did a conservative divided the country, the liberal yahya khan was in his harem when the country was being divided

who was liaquat ali khan, directly appointed by quaid e azam, a conservative, who was zia ul haq, a conservative, won us soviet war

your liberal leaders have damaged our country

no my percentages are not messed up, if you had the opportunity to live in pakistan and observe the pakistanis, than you would have known the percetages

last day i was having conversation to a pakistani kashmiri, he had liberal point of view, he didnt even call himself a pakistani, he said im a kashmiri, in general the kashmiris identify themselves a pakistani, but he said he is kashmiri and wants an independent state, when i asked why you want as no pakistani ever hurt a kashmiri, he saod its because of pakistan, india boms us from the border, i said to him that its indian fault not pakistani. and he is a muslim, kashmir must be in pakistan, he said, no, in britain, all indians and pakistanis get together, he had liberal point of view, and so he wanted to get separate

its a fact liberals in pakistan divided our country, and these same liberals being american lakeys are dividing it again
 
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^^ who was yahya khan, a liberal, who is zardari, a liberal, who was musharraf a liberal, who was benazir, a liberal, who was yaqub khan, a liberal, was was, who was ghulam muhammad, a liberal, was was iskandar mirza a liberal did a conservative divided the country, the liberal yahya khan was in his harem when the country was being divided
who was liaquat ali khan, directly appointed by quaid e azam, a conservative, who was zia ul haq, a conservative, won us soviet war
your liberal leaders have damaged our country -
I think it's very important that "liberal"-minded Pakistanis be able to answer KHIte. No points if you have to ask an American what to say to him - this has to come from the heart.
 
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I'm not supporter of taseer or ppp but let me tell yo that it was ppp govt & taseer was part of that govt, govt had right to discuss about laws & listen all civilians but on the other hand Qadri was a security personnal of Pakistan, any govt change or any law change his duty was to protect civilians & human lives in Pakistan not to take up arms & kill some one who says something his mind didn't like, further more he killed the person whom he was supposed to protect.

Also all Pakistanis must accept courts instead of protesting & other BS, what you guys want? civil war? you guys are worst than foreign enemies like india etc, you will finish your own country & spread chaos in your own country, why didn't you ppl do something to save Muslims in gujrat massacre, why don't you save Kashmir muslims? why you guys only wan't exteremism in Pakistan & kill anyone who doesn't agree with your theories? why working cowardly on payroll of enemies of Pakistan, be a man & declare openly but don't torture the country slowly. Look at Pakistan massive progress before 80's, Pakistan was ahead of India because every one had rights, today no one want to invest in Pakistan because they know duffer people live here who will kill anyone who doesn't agree with them, no investment no jobs, no jobs crimes rate up. All roads of troubles of Pakistan leads to exteremists in the country.
We want justice for Qadri. his human rights are getting violated. He shold be granted freedom, by blood money or something otherwise the situation might go worst that nobody can imagine. He has been wrongly convicted.
 
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We want justice for Qadri. his human rights are getting violated. He shold be granted freedom, by blood money or something otherwise the situation might go worst that nobody can imagine. He has been wrongly convicted.

HIS human rights are getting violated? He killed someone in cold blood and was lucky enough to get a trial for it. Sheesh.
 
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your Modi example is totally illogical. People do not celebrate Modi for his involvement in the riots. on the contrary, that is the only thing in the way of him becoming a PM in spite of his stellar performance as a Chief Minister. Compare that with Ilmuddin who's only act of heroism was murdering a Hindu to "defend" his religion. Since your founding fathers supported him and his ideology, its no wonder such sentiments still exist.

There are plenty who celebrate his killing of Muslims. If someone had made Ilmuddin a CM, there would have been plenty who would have imagined his good performance too.
 
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^^ who was yahya khan, a liberal, who is zardari, a liberal, who was musharraf a liberal, who was benazir, a liberal, who was yaqub khan, a liberal, was was, who was ghulam muhammad, a liberal, was was iskandar mirza a liberal

did a conservative divided the country, the liberal yahya khan was in his harem when the country was being divided

who was liaquat ali khan, directly appointed by quaid e azam, a conservative, who was zia ul haq, a conservative, won us soviet war

your liberal leaders have damaged our country
What was Jinnah?

last day i was having conversation to a pakistani kashmiri, he had liberal point of view, he didnt even call himself a pakistani, he said im a kashmiri, in general the kashmiris identify themselves a pakistani, but he said he is kashmiri and wants an independent state, when i asked why you want as no pakistani ever hurt a kashmiri, he saod its because of pakistan, india boms us from the border, i said to him that its indian fault not pakistani. and he is a muslim, kashmir must be in pakistan, he said, no, in britain, all indians and pakistanis get together, he had liberal point of view, and so he wanted to get separate

its a fact liberals in pakistan divided our country, and these same liberals being american lakeys are dividing it again

Then there are those of us who say even if Kashmir becomes separate we'll stay with Pakistan. Just like there's not one type of Pakistani, there's not going to be one time of Kashmiri or Kashmiri Pakistani.

I support independence of Kashmir too, not because of Indian bombs or economy or anything else. It's the fair thing to do.
 
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Btw Zardari is not liberal. Liberalism is more to do with supporting freedoms, not by being anti-Islamic. 99.99% people in Pakistan can't even define liberalism. To them its promiscuity and drinking alcohol.

With liberalism there's one rule only. Freedom. Freedom to be Islami, freedom to not be one.
 
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There are plenty who celebrate his killing of Muslims. If someone had made Ilmuddin a CM, there would have been plenty who would have imagined his good performance too.

I expected a more honest reply from you. But yeah.. this is not the place for it.
 
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Here's a fun fact it was my uncle Zia that invited the Americans.

Zia's affair with the American Joanne Herring is also out there. Zia pretty much threw us to the American wolves over a love affair.

---------- Post added at 06:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 AM ----------

I expected a more honest reply from you. But yeah.. this is not the place for it.

Tell me how I should have replied.
 
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Zia's affair with the American Joanne Herring is also out there. Zia pretty much threw us to the American wolves over a love affair.

---------- Post added at 06:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 AM ----------





Tell me how I should have replied.

Basically he saw a way to one up everyone and saw a babe
 
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How many of you are willing to grab a gun and protect this judge with your lives, including hunting down his attempted militant assassins and bringing them to justice, if necessary?

Give it a rest, Shlomo!

We are not going to descend into civil war by matching the fanatics' violence with our own violence. The way forward is to implement the rule of law and punish vigilante violence.

Although, I do appreciate your honesty in articulating the true intentions of certain groups towards Pakistan.
 
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Fate,it seems,is not without the sense of irony.It was Salman Taseer's father Dr Mohammed Din Taseer who had once supported the cause of Blasphemy for the case of Ilam Din the killer of Raj Pal in 1920.Now saw his own son salman taseer in same situation as rajpal once was.

A look back for Qadri supporters —Yasser Latif Hamdani

In the case of Muslims, the offence that merits the death penalty is not a one-time offence but repeated and habitual offence, and as a last resort

After the recent conviction of Salmaan Taseer’s assassin, Mumtaz Qadri, and the hoopla surrounding it, we must as a nation consider the root of the issue: how is it that the assassin of a governor comes to be celebrated as a hero and modern avatar of Ilam Din, the celebrated young assassin of Raj Pal in the 1920s?

When considering the historical angle, we must consider the role of two of the finest intellectuals produced by the Muslim community in Punjab whose support for Ilam Din is quoted as justification for the support for Qadri, i.e. Dr Allama Muhammad Iqbal and Dr Mohammed Din Taseer who, incidentally, was Salmaan Taseer’s father.

Iqbal and Taseer, both Cambridge educated gentlemen, were in essence modern Muslims and it therefore is a compelling argument to quote them as justification for the actions of some educated members of the middle class today who are protesting Qadri’s conviction. Here we must consider whether there is any real parallel between the actions of Mumtaz Qadri and Ilam Din beyond the fact that both of them acted out of a feeling of religious veneration. Without condoning Ilam Din’s actions, first and foremost it must be noted that the context was entirely different. Raj Pal published an offensive pamphlet as part of the ongoing pamphlet war between Arya Samajists and Muslims in Punjab. For this, he was tried under Section 153-A of the Indian Penal Code and convicted. The trial court stated: “Except to make a wanton attack upon the Prophet of Islam, to hold him up to ridicule and contempt, to ridicule his religion and thus to wound the feelings of his followers.”

This judgment was upheld in appeal by the Sessions Court, which said, “The pamphlet was intentionally offensive scurrilous and wounding to the religious feelings of the Mahomedan community and that it was undoubtedly malicious in tone and intention, and that, in the case of this publication, the intention was obviously to wound and insult the feelings of a particular community.”

This case then went to the Lahore High Court. Even Justice Dilip Singh, who was later accused of anti-Muslim bias, concluded that the pamphlet was a scurrilous satire aimed at the life of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). This is what Dilip Singh wrote in his judgment: “Counsel for the petitioner has contended that the pamphlet does not show any such intention and that it was only meant to show the evils of polygamy and marriage between persons of disparate age. I have no hesitation in rejecting this explanation of the pamphlet. It undoubtedly is nothing more or less than a scurrilous satire on the founder of the Muslim religion but I cannot find anything in it which shows that it was meant to attack the Mahomedan religion as such...the tone of the pamphlet as a whole is undoubtedly malicious and likely to wound the religious feelings of the Muslim community...Section 153-A intended to prevent persons from making attacks on a particular community as it exists at the present time and was not meant to stop polemics against deceased religious leaders however scurrilous and in bad taste as these attacks might be.”

Consequently, Raj Pal was acquitted and ultimately murdered. It must also be mentioned that even the division bench that presided over the Ilam Din appeal noted that Raj Pal’s pamphlet was scurrilous and offensive. It was in this atmosphere that Muslim intellectuals including Iqbal and Taseer formed the ‘Ghazi Ilam Din Committee’. The background itself was the communal relations in Punjab and the united front put forth by Muslims in Punjab against the communal excesses of Arya Samaj. This, of course, is no justification for violence and murder but by the same token it distinguishes entirely the Ilam Din case from Qadri’s case.

The thin and plainly concocted arguments put forward by Mumtaz Qadri’s defence team need to be considered against this background. They allege that Salmaan Taseer committed blasphemy and therefore his assassin was justified in killing him. In the presence of 295-C, what was there to stop Mr Mumtaz Qadri or anyone else from bringing a criminal complaint against Salmaan Taseer? The answer to this is that even by 295-C, which the ulema put forward as the infallible word of God, the late Mr Taseer could not be convicted of blasphemy for asking for amendments.

It must be remembered that Mr Taseer had simply asked for the law to be brought into conformity with Islamic jurisprudence. There is a very strong view — held by the majority of Hanafi scholars — that mens rea (intent) is a key element for establishing guilt for blasphemy. Besides, have we not heard the well known ahsan (confirmed) hadith of the Holy Prophet (PBUH): “All actions are judged by intentions”? What is more, under Islamic law, a Muslim accused of blasphemy becomes apostate. The juristic application of this key point is that a Muslim accused of blasphemy can at any time ask for forgiveness and perform shahadah (the act of entering Islam) again to come back into the fold of Islam. Therefore, in the case of Muslims, the offence that merits the death penalty is not a one-time offence but repeated and habitual offence, and as a last resort. As for non-Muslims, Imam Abu Hanifa is on record as having laid down the dictum that non-Muslims cannot be awarded death penalty for blasphemy. The reasoning for this, given by the great Islamic jurist, is that the very act of staying outside the circle of Islam is spiritually worse than blasphemy and since Islam affords freedom of religion for non-Muslims it cannot logically punish by death a non-Muslim for blasphemy.

Therefore, it is time that both camps, i.e. liberals and ulema, modify their extreme positions for the sake of Islam and our country, both of which have been brought into disrepute through these goings on. Liberals must acknowledge that the blasphemy law, unpalatable as it might be to us, is what the majority wants but such a blasphemy law should be in conformity with the spirit of Islam and human rights. The ulema must also concede that 295-C, as it exists, is not in conformity with the spirit of Islam and is misused. They should get together to improve the law and work to create an additional anti-incitement law to ensure the holy name of our Prophet (PBUH) is not used to settle personal scores. Why should they fear a reasonable proposition such as this, which will only serve to protect our most revered personality from concocted scurrilous attacks created and motivated by other factors? When an accuser accuses an innocent person of blasphemy and concocts false evidence to prove it, is he not also committing blasphemy? There is no law that targets such cynical blasphemers.

Furthermore, the ulema should also reconsider their ill-conceived support for Mumtaz Qadri whose crime is unpardonable. Mumtaz Qadri not only killed another human being in contravention of the law but forfeited his duty and killed a man he had sworn to protect. This hits at the root of all known Islamic principles.

This is our country and all of us — liberal and conservative, religious and irreligious — have to live here together. Let us find that elusive middle point for I assure you that compromise would be the most Islamic act we do as a nation in 64 years.
 
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