why not Come under US-Nuclear Umbrella ?

[Jit]

congratulate the OP on an important topic; have not read the responses from others but here is mine.

there are 2 inter-related reasons why Pakistan insists on holding on to the 'nukes':
1. the military establishment wants their ever increasing budget and power and see raising the Kashmir as an issue to keep the public support.
2. china does not want Pakistan to be nuke free and are hoping that in future (as was done in the past) Pakistan can be used as a conduit for clandestine sale of weapons and material to rogue regimes. Pakistan takes the blame and some money but china acquires the power and influence.

If you are truly keeping the interests of people of Pakistan in mind as the highest priority, Pakistan should realign, away from China and towards USA.

And if they do that I won't be surprised if India and China themselves do a disarmament. Both those countries are growing, big and military spend is a capital drain.

Yes, Pakistan holds the keys to peace and prosperity in the region.

 

[SrNair]

We are buying 100 F-35As and 16 F-35Bs mate. Though India and Turkey will never go to a war. It may seem a bit crazy today but I bet after 10-15 years IN and TNF will be exercising together.

Looking for it bro.We should conduct joint exercise and also increase our relation

 

[Neptune]

Are you inducting Carriers?

Juan Carlos I class LHD

 

[Shariq786]

There will be no war between countries but between power blocks because no one want to fight alone....
The point which is missing from the first page is Alliance with Super Power not under the umbrella and this point is shared by @Shariq786....

There is no chance for surrendering nuclear weapons to UN and get advance conventional weaponry in return.....

I will not mention US unreliable past....
But it not very old incident when (2nd May, 2011) US did a false flag operation against OBL in Abbotabad....

In result of this operation tension grows Pakistan took a stand and China has to say that "Any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China,"....

And US tried to follow the chain of Abbotabad Operation on (26th Nov, 2011) when their so called communication mistake, the high intensity attack at Salala Check post with Two NATO Apache helicopters an AC-130 gunship and two F-15E Eagle fighter jets entered 2.5 kilometers into the Pakistani border area of Salala in the Baizai subdivision of Mohmand Agency....
Our 24 soldiers martyred and 18 wounded....

i didn't meant there would be all out wars but there will be a fight for dominance on the world !!!

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

we have 2 countries who have better fate than us and Ukraine .. Japan and Germany

Your post and intention is good. But we have to look that the individuals in the country matter. Most of the economy were open economy and people decided to embrace it .
But in Pakistan where everything is based on Islam, its the people who need to change to bring the kind of economic prosperity.
For Eg in India. the Clean India campaign have not stopped people from spitting on the roads. Unless people change, any growth cannot be permanent.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

we have 2 countries who have better fate than us and Ukraine .. Japan and Germany

Your post and intention is good. But we have to look that the individuals in the country matter. Most of the economy were open economy and people decided to embrace it .
But in Pakistan where everything is based on Islam, its the people who need to change to bring the kind of economic prosperity.
For Eg in India. the Clean India campaign have not stopped people from spitting on the roads. Unless people change, any growth cannot be permanent.

 

[qamar1990]

Ok guys , i was wondering that , our Nuclear program is India specific , our missiles cant reach any other possible hostile from the west just in case ... but this Nuclear Pakistan seems a iminant threat to world peace .. and just because of that we were put into this WOT , ( at least some peoples believe in it ) ....
so why not we surrender our Nuclear weapons to UN ? ? US from 2001 try to reach our Nukes , or at least trying to locate them , and its a open secret to all ... we have no access to modern technology , no news military hardware , nothing .... we cant test ICBMs etc ,just because we will face a huge retaliation from the west and possible sanctions ....
our one and only possible enemy is India , at least this what we are told . Americans are friendly to us along with NATO ... than why not just give our Nukes to UN , on conditions which we can put in front of west like , economic reforms and corridor, increase in trade , more access to conventional weapons , for example turkey , Japan and Germany ... except turkey germany and Japan is under US Nuclear Umbrella and they have one of the most advance conventional military's in the world .... why cant we do the same ? we all know US presence in Pak .. whatever high tech and sophisticated weapons USA give us were before we got out nuke tests , why cant we compromise our nukes for a high tech powerful conventional army ?

there might be some possible cases which peoples might be thinking here ...
like .. :
1. what if india attack us ?
2. what if US attack us ?
3. we are the only Islamic nation who posses nukes ..is it a honor or burden ?

1. War with india is something we can experience anytime , and that is reality ...but will india use Nukes on us ? we all know that border skirmishes are happening since kargil and even before , but do we really think that any future conflict will trigger a nuclear war ? and what if we get US nuclear Umbrella like Japan and Germany ? made a pact with them to protect us in future conflicts , only in case of Nukes get involved in war ...
in return we can have more weapons and technology from the west .. i talk about Economic corridor and more trade that will help us build our economy strong .. we can take japan Germany and turkey as example , they have strong conventional army but the only weapon they dont have is Nukes, but did this make their countries valuable to their enemies ? and have US nukes on our soil will make sure that Russians or Indian will not dare to use Nukes ....and by having more conventional weapons we can fight better of with indians ....

2.we all know that many of people in Pakistan believe USA as their enemy and think that sooner or later they will attack us , even if they do , what we can do to prevent them attacking us ??
Answer is NOTHING ...

3 . So many peoples proudly say that we are the only Islamic nation that holds the nuclear weapons , but what benefit we ever give to any of our brotherly Islamic nation ?? none ...this Islamic Ummah and Islamic bomb make things worse for us than make them safe ... our country is more insecure than today ... wont we better before 1999 ?? no Taliban factor , no TTP , no foreign fighters , no band organizations , no suicide bombings etc.. ... world knows that we can not transfer the technology to any of Islamic country nor put our nukes into any other's soil ... than what might be reason to hold this title of " First Islamic country to get Nukes " ????when there is no benefit to it ?


I know lots of peoples here think that Nukes are the guaranty for our safety from India .. but this is also a reality that a full scale Nuclear war between Pakistan and India is impossible , and we can not fight with US , Nato or Israel with our current inventory ..because our missiles simply cant reach there ...
so here the deal what if we offer our nukes to UN and in return we ask for certain thing , what you guys think will be a better deal ?! and what if this all mess of WOT suddenly vanish after surrendering our nukes ? than we can be the tiger of Asia ....

P.s : i want a serious discussion on topic , so mods please try to make this thread clean from trolls , anyone can reply but only if you have something positive related to topic ..

@Horus @Oscar @MastanKhan @Zarvan @dexter @The Deterrent @Chak Bamu @DESERT FIGHTER @orangzaib @gambit @haviZsultan @Irfan Baloch @A.Rafay @Norwegian @The SC @Basel @Amstrong @FaujHistorian @Jungibaaz @fatman17 @Donatello @Windjammer @Solomon2 @500

go kill yourself.....seriously....if you have any shame what so ever....

 

[qamar1990]

Oscar dont you think that Pakistan is strategically very important to US , like Japan and Germans are enjoying US friendship we can do same ??
imagine their Missiles stationed in Pak , will give a wet nightmare to Russians ...

pakistan is worthless to the united states.. the only reason we have relations with america is because of the nuclear weapons.. they are afraid that if pakistan goes rogue then things could get dangerous so thats why they give us aid ect.
how old r u?? 13 or something?? nuclear weapons give us power.... power over all countries that don't have them... or do you want to be somebody else bitch?? like japan and south korea??

 

[fatman17]

Two acronyms:

CEATO
SENTO

At the end the reliance on a protector gets us nothing when the objectives of those alliances are completely different.

not to mention the US-PK Mutual Defence Treaty....not worth the cost of the paper it is written on.

 

[Sam Manekshaw]

Do you guyz even think that our nukes are Pakistan specific...India-Pakistan never gonna use nukes in war that will be suicidal for both of us.
Nukes are just deterrence...if India try to damage Pakistan more than a limit(In case of war) then nuclear threat might play it's magic of deterrence. So basically keeping your nukes to yourself safe is good for Pakistan.

 

[qamar1990]

congratulate the OP on an important topic; have not read the responses from others but here is mine.

there are 2 inter-related reasons why Pakistan insists on holding on to the 'nukes':
1. the military establishment wants their ever increasing budget and power and see raising the Kashmir as an issue to keep the public support.
2. china does not want Pakistan to be nuke free and are hoping that in future (as was done in the past) Pakistan can be used as a conduit for clandestine sale of weapons and material to rogue regimes. Pakistan takes the blame and some money but china acquires the power and influence.

If you are truly keeping the interests of people of Pakistan in mind as the highest priority, Pakistan should realign, away from China and towards USA.

And if they do that I won't be surprised if India and China themselves do a disarmament. Both those countries are growing, big and military spend is a capital drain.

Yes, Pakistan holds the keys to peace and prosperity in the region.

keep having your wet dreams.... @rockstar08 is an idiot for even suggesting such a thing.... but trust me as long there is pakistanis like me in our country and that is about 95 percent of our population... this will only be your wet dream

 

[qamar1990]

I really don't see how this would be possible and will offer my analysis of the major political hurdles from both the US and Pakistani sides. First, the US:

1. The US reserves its nuclear protection for its closest allies, I'm sorry but Pakistan is an on-again, off-again friend to the US. In order to be under the US nuclear umbrella a major upgrading in relations would be needed.

2. Becoming closer to Pakistan, and especially providing them with nuclear protection, is a great way to jeopardize a blossoming relationship with India. The US will not put its relationship with India at risk for the sake of protecting Pakistan. We have trade and defense ties with both India and Pakistan and we will not put our ties with either at risk for the sake of taking sides.

3. The US would not only put it's relationship at risk, but it would likely turn India hostile and provoke the Indians into pointing some of their nuclear weapons at US cities instead of those of China and Pakistan. We already have enough problems, we don't need to add India.

4. The US political and military brass just don't trust Pakistan enough.

Now for the Pakistani side.

1. Do they even trust the US to provide them with nuclear protection following the guarantees provided to Ukraine? The US didn't offer to protect Ukraine when it was threatened, there was never a defense pact that mandated our act, but we did fail in our obligation to protect Ukraine's sovereignty - part of our guarantee package afforded to them for giving up their nuclear weapons.

2. Is Pakistan willing to make the compromises needed to become closer to the US? You want to be part of the US team, be prepared to get tougher on militants, participate in future incidents, and dump or downgrade your relationship with China. I don't see either side making these kinds of political maneuvers.

3. Why would Pakistan ties its own hands? They have control over when and where to use their own nuclear weapons, they wouldn't have that control over those of the US.

4. Pakistan is working its way into regional defense cooperation agreements and frameworks such as the SCO. While not a defense treaty, these will help to reduce tensions with India by providing a platform for them to talk in the presence of mediators.

5. If Pakistan is the aggressor, will the US protect it?

This just isn't a realistic possibility from any angle you look at, and especially a political angle.

@Horus @Donatello - what do you guys think of the political concerns each nation would have to address.

very stupid idea and thread by op..... its treason for pakistan to even suggest such a thing....

 

[CyberForce786]

i didn't meant there would be all out wars but there will be a fight for dominance on the world !!!

Brother, you didn't under stand what i said, i only praise your point of "Alliance/Allegiance with China" and rest are my views....

 

[Sine Nomine]

After OBL raid and Salala attack trusting USA is utmost stupidity

 

[The Great One]

After OBL raid and Salala attack trusting USA is utmost stupidity

OBL raid happened because your administration gave shelter to OBL. Salala incident happened because your guys fired shells into Afghanistan over the Americanssss.