Why Muslim headcount in Indian Army necessary?

[PRINCE_THE_SHOWSTOPPER]

Well you see "joy bangla" doesn't represent bangladesh. It encompasses whole W.bengal in it. So yeah I prefer bangladesh
zindabad or Joy Bangladesh more over "joy bangla".
joy bangla was a term used by the mukti joddhas to denote the fact that they r bangladeshis and not pakistanis,so they have to free their countries from foreign invadors...also their mind was not as mean as yours to think that bangla can mean WB also...

Why
bangla? why not bangladesh? West Bengalis are not bangladeshis but Indian bengalis.

and they would never want to be one....but do u know 1 fact that 60% bengalis in WB,Tripura & Assam had their ancestal heritage in bangladesh & they have migrated to india in 1947 or 1971???

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

How can a muslim serve in the indian army. A true muslim can't utter stuff like Jay hind and vande matharam. How can a muslim fire at
their kashmiri brothers knowing full well the innocence of kashmiris. A true muslim simply can't serve in the indian military. He
has to give up Islam like the bollywood khans to get accepted into the indian army.

Nationalism is a greater force than theocracy in modern nation states.Europe understood this after the devastation of the thiry years war over catholic protestant rift and never went to a major conflict over religious differences again.
Religion is in essence a bond between a man and his god,a private relationship that has nothing to do with the state.
If u try to run a state based on religion in modern times u end up basket cases like the taliban in afganisthan and the regimes in the middle east.Kemal ataturk of turkey understood this completely.And look where turkey is now from the ashes of ww1 ,the turks haven't given up their religion at all.They just don't mix it with nationalism.

This si a part of realpolitik.Don't fight religious wars.

 

[Bhairava]

There was a proposal from the current UPA govt to implement a soft reservation for Muslims in Indian Army, but that proposal was shot down by the Army HQ, rightfully.

Army is no place to implement these stupid reservation policies. If any citizen of India is physically fit, is willing to serve in the Army and above all makes the 'cut', he is taken. Religion doesn't play a role and it should be as such..lest we destroy the last remaining institution of honor and patriotism.

Coming to the reason why Muslims, allegedly, are not much present in IA - education is one important thing and more importantly they themselves must come out in large numbers if some are to be selected.

If only a few of them even turn out for recruitment rallies, obviously only a few will be there in the Army too.

 

[Bhairava]

I just read the article and to say succinctly, the write up is beyond pathetic.

Just as Muslims are under-represented in the army, so are the Bengalis, Biharis, Oriyas, south Indians or Gujaratis.

Who cares...? We contribute to the nation in our own way....for example DRDO,HAL ,ISRO etc are filled with bucketloads of south Indians.

Again - the Army can recruit somebody only if the person is willing to come to the recruitment center in the first place.

If there are few Muslims in the Army it means only a few turn out for recruitment drives and if they themselves are not interested in joining the Army, why force them ? Every soldier who jins the army must have the drive and zeal..Just recruiting for the sake of political correctness and because one mad judge gave out his report would be not only foolish but also suicidal.

Moreover the writeup argues about how there are community/clan based regiments in IA...In a vast and diverse country like IA such fraternal regiments are a MUST in order for a espirit-de-corps to survive and give the soldier that extra bit. Also most of the regiments have their own battle cries and most of them are references to Hindu gods or in case of Punjab/Sikh regiments references to Sikh war cries...If Muslims are to join them, then those war cries must be tampered with which in turn would affect the tradition and morale of those soldiers from those particular clans.

If the author could not understand these basic things, I could only pity him.

p.s:- The author would have been well advised if he just kept his "concerns" about Muslims and not un-necessarily bring in south Indians, Gujaratis,Bengalis and try to twist this into a Sikh & Hindi speaking Hindus subjugating the Army vs the rest.

 

[kas786]

I just read the article and to say succinctly, the write up is beyond pathetic.



Who cares...? We contribute to the nation in our own way..DRDO,HAL ,ISRO etc are filled with bucketloads of south Indians.

Again - the Army can recruit somebody only if the person is willing to come to the recruitment center in the first place.

If there are few Muslims in the Army it means only a few turn out for recruitment drives and if they themselves are not interested in joining the Army, why force them ? Every soldier who jins the army must have the drive and zeal..Just recruiting for the sake of political correctness and because one mad judge gave out his report would be not only foolish but also suicidal.

Moreover the writeup argues about how there are community/clan based regiments in IA...In a vast and diverse country like IA such fraternal regiments are a MUST in order for a espirit-de-corps to survive and give the soldier that extra bit. Also most of the regiments have their own battle cries and most of them are references to Hindu Gods or in case of Punjab/Sikh regiments references to Sikh war cries...If Muslims are to join them, then those war cries must be tampered with which in turn would affect the tradition and morale of those soldiers from those particular clans.

It's called having Muslim regiments. You seem to be biased against them. If you could care less whether they joined or not, just say so explicitly.
Well, a question to ponder is why don't the underrepresented minorities have the zeal and drive, that you are referring to? Do they not love their country? I'm sure they do. Perhaps the same bias that you guys display is what stops the Indian army from recruiting the minorities or "untouchables".

 

[OrionHunter]

To be frank- the IA doesn't give a $hit if you are Muslim, Sikh, blue, red,green etc if you can cut they'll have you- end of.

Right! What more proof does anyone need when you have 'prayer rooms' for Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and Muslims in the same building in mixed Units? And where troops visit all of them not only during respective religious festivals to partake in their rituals, but also during Sundays/holidays!

When one sheds blood in battle, Allah doesn't ask whether that blood is a Hindu's or a Muslim's. But try telling that to the politicians who believe in so called reservations for minorities purely for vote banks.

 

[Bhairava]

It's called having Muslim regiments. You seem to be biased against them. If you could care less whether they joined or not, just say so explicitly.

I could not care less if a Tamil or a Marathi or a Bengali or a Bihari or a Hindu or a Sikh or a Jain or Haryanvi or a Sikkimese joined the Army.

Indian Army is not a conscript Army...Recruitment is totally voluntary..Recruitment drives happen and if Muslims go to them, perform well in the demanding tests, meet the educational qualifications they will be selected. Not only Muslims, but any one from any faith, any ethnicity meeting those criteria will be selected.

How difficult is it for you to understand that ?

Well, a question to ponder is why don't the underrepresented minorities have the zeal and drive, that you are referring to? Do they not love their country? I'm sure they do. Perhaps the same bias that you guys display is what stops the Indian army from recruiting the minorities or "untouchables".

Again if you a a bbit common sense you would have understood that the IA recruiters could only recruit those who managed to reach the recruitment camps. They cannot go home to home and request people to come to that.

So if Muslims did attend the camps and they passed the tests then they would have been selected automatically. If they were not selected then it means they did not attend.

Anyway if it makes any sense to you, the GOC 15 corps under which Kashmir comes is commanded by a Muslim..Lt.Gen S.A Hasnain. If we can trust the command of Kashmir to a Muslim, it means we can trust anything with Indian Muslims.

 

[Soumitra]

Novody uses Vande Mataram in India apart from the right wingers.

Though I personally love the phrase, it has grown completely obsolete with the times, just like the language Sanskrit it was written in.

Vande Mataram is the National Song and not a right wing quote. You Pseudo Secularists bend over backwards to prove your so called " secularism"

 

[arihant]

What is this. I am jain and pretty sure we though are 1% of Indian population but would not be representing even 0.00001% of Indian Army. Probably we might have just few 100 jains in the Army. But when it comes to business, we would be owing large part of cloth markets (along with Sindhis) .

 

[Bhairava]

What is this. I am jain and pretty sure we though are 1% of Indian population but would not be representing even 0.00001% of Indian Army. Probably we might have just few 100 jains in the Army. But when it comes to business, we would be owing large part of cloth markets (along with Sindhis) .

Dont complain dude...you have the baby boomer named after you...

 

[kas786]

I could not care less if a Tamil or a Marathi or a Bengali or a Bihari or a Hindu or a Sikh or a Jain or Haryanvi or a Sikkimese joined the Army.

Indian Army is not a conscript Army...Recruitment is totally voluntary..Recruitment drives happen and if Muslims go to them, perform well in the demanding tests, meet the educational qualifications they will be selected. Not only Muslims, but any one from any faith, any ethnicity meeting those criteria will be selected.

How difficult is it for you to understand that ?



Again if you a a bbit common sense you would have understood that the IA recruiters could only recruit those who managed to reach the recruitment camps. They cannot go home to home and request people to come to that.

So if Muslims did attend the camps and they passed the tests then they would have been selected automatically. If they were not selected then it means they did not attend.

Anyway if it makes any sense to you, the GOC 15 corps under which Kashmir comes is commanded by a Muslim..Lt.Gen S.A Hasnain. If we can trust the command of Kashmir to a Muslim, it means we can trust anything with Indian Muslims.

It's called "rejection" my friend -- a new word for you to get acquainted with. How do we know that the minorities are simply being rejected for irrational reasons, thus the reason why they are so underrepresented? There is no other logical explanation.

The same reason why a lot of muslims are not admitted to some schools in India.
Wake up and smell the coffee (tea in your case), my friend.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article3009826.ece

 

[harpoon]

It's called "rejection" my friend -- a new word for you to get acquainted with. How do we know that the minorities are simply being rejected for irrational reasons, thus the reason why they are so underrepresented? There is no other logical explanation.

The same reason why a lot of muslims are not admitted to some schools in India.

Baseless propoganda. Indian military recruitment is one of the free and fair recruitment in the world. You meet the criteria, you get selected... as simple as that.

The same question can be asked for PA.Why there are less Hindus & Sikhs in PA when compared to their population? Are they being rejected on irrational reasons.

As far as schools are concerned, its all about the money honey.

 

[PAKBARBIE]

Baseless propoganda. Indian military recruitment is one of the free and fair recruitment in the world. You meet the criteria, you get selected... as simple as that.

The same question can be asked for PA.Why there are less Hindus & Sikhs in PA when compared to their population? Are they being rejected on irrational reasons.

As far as schools are concerned, its all about the money honey.

E=mc^2: Segregation in India: Plight of Muslims

^^^
glad that sumone from ur side accepts and analyzes the plight of muslims fairly

same thing is probably happening in the IA

 

[EjazR]

Are you an idiot? Joy Bangla is not our national slogan neither does our army uses it. This song is a famous war time song and there is no paganism involved in this song. Joy bangla also donot have any paganism in it otherwise BAL wouldn't have used it as a party slogan. "Joy Bangla" is a AL party slogan and "Bangladesh zindabad" is BNP party slogan and neither
of those slogans has paganism involved in it.

I am sorry but are you saying people who say Pakistan Zindabad or Joy Bangla are Pagans or indulging in Paganism? Jai Hind is similar to Long live Hind.

Please leave this inane issues aside and make some substantive comments. And be careful before you give declarations of takfir and who is a muslim and who is not, because these people who indulged in takfir are cursed by the Prophet (SAW). You are very close to doing that.

-------------------------------

On topic, yes there are some difficulties for Muslims in India, just like minorities in other countries have anywhere else in the world. But at the same time, Indian Muslims are doing well in many other things as well. For example, according to the Sachar report itself, Muslims were over-represented in ITES and BPO private sector than their population (18-20% if I remember correctly as compared to 13% of its population).

For the Indian army as well, there should be a well rounded recruitment, not just about Muslims, but also recruitment from the south and eastern India rather than too much focus on north and west. There should be an open discussion on reforms in recruitment without a knee jerk reaction on shutting it down.There is no "conspiracy" keeping Muslims head count low here.

IT is pertinent to note that compared to minorities in neighboring states like Bangladesh, Sri Lanka or Pakistan, Muslims do much well. In fact, Indian Muslims on average are more literate, have more graduates and higher per capita income than even Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims despite the latter being in majority.

 

[Tshering22]

Guys, don't waste your time explaining why we don't need Congress' communalization attempts in our national Army. He won't understand as his country (the actual one) thinks only in terms of religion and nothing else. It is something that has brought it to the ruins but will still think like that because he's programmed to think only on religious lines.

Chill out and let's stop answering this thread. We know that UPA is playing its dirty game, we Indians don't want it, the Army leadership doesn't want it. I think our opinions both Army and civilians matter more than what a few scamming politicians have. So let's just conclude the thread.