Why isnt Pakistan Army getting rid of its G3

[fatman17]

yar trust me i have more assulat weapons than you have got clothes

I dont want to get into this but pls have respect for the other guy.

 

[peshawar]

I dont want to get into this but pls have respect for the other guy.

my apalogies actually i have been usualy hanging out on forms with a lot of indians and my manners have detoriated due to that
i apalogies to any one and every one who i have been rude to i wil be more respectable and responsible in future

 

[PakForce Unlimited]

@Peshawar

I have no experience from PA, but i have been a conscript in Norway where the G3 rifle is used, in another words i have used this weapon myself. You describe this weapon as it is a useless toy, but infact it is still in active service in many armies around the world, do you wonder why?

The size of the rifle is not so bad, it is roughly a meter in length and weigh about 5 kg with ammo. If you are not shaped as a underfed soldier you should not have problems handling the rifle. Yes the recoil is there and it is a bit hard, but again you will handle it fine since you shoot single-shots and not engage the full auto function. About the jamming problem, i have no experience of it but it occured to people who where too lazy for properly cleaning their rifle.

A correction, the rear metal sight of a g3 is marked to 400 meters not 300. And i have shot targets myself upto 300 meters. If you have more training and experience there should be no problem to hit a elephant at 500 meters as you claim.

This weaopon is used today by Norwegian ISAF forces in Afghanistan, if it is in possesion off all the flauds you claim, then why havent the soldiers complained about it? What we hear it is better to have this weapon against the Talibans AK-47, 7.62mm vs 7.62mm then other NATO forces who has 5.56mm which in some cases is not fully mortal when in direct clash against the AK-47.

 

[Keysersoze]

answer to your reason number one
well just because pakistan army is engaged in CQB and is getting a lot of losses does mean that it should switch to a weapon that is good at both CQB as well as longer ranges

reaseon number 2) well ya but i am sure that when a wazir or a masud tribes man fires his ak47 from 80 meters with a truck load of pakistan army men not a lot of ammo goes to waste


reason number 3) well i am sure they dont go after everyy single brass shell and i am sure there first concern is gettnig the soilder to hit the target


'''' could EASILY hit a target with this weapon at 500 metres. I don't know where you get this info from. I have the idea that you are a really bad marksman who then blames his weapon. I could hit at 600-700 metres with iron sights with the god awful SA-80 the G-3 would be easier by comparison''''


realy how come you see a target at 500 meters
i am sure tommro when you at war you wil be able to spot you enemy in cammo hidden five hundreed meters away
pheraps Allah has blessed you with THERMAL vision that you can spot out a target at 500 meters
man grow up you can brag to any person who has never held a weapon in his hand but dont tell me that you can easily shoot targets at five hundreed meters with a g3
the rear metal sight of a g3 is market up to 300 meters only
yar trust me i have more assulat weapons than you have got clothes

1)The only disadvantage would be the length of the weapon. but then it would be the same with any similar battle rifle. I have used a few and have had no problems. Please do tell me what your idea of CQB is because it doesn't seem to make any sense. As someone who has actually DONE CQB please tell me what the hell you are talking about.

2)Wow what a **** justification for a weapon change. Because a tribesman can empty a magazine at closely bunched targets at close range the whole worlds armies should change their weapons immediately! Wanna hear a story about another bunch of Tribesmen who opened fire with their AK's at a British patrol (including a good friend of mine)? They all missed (at 100 metres)they then got killed.

Ok now how can I see targets at 500 metres? With my eyes. Again this points to the fact that whilst you might have lots of illegal weapons, you don't know how to use them. (the same way owning a Ferrari doesn't make you a F-1 driver) Cammo huh? well since most armies use cammo and a soldier can remain undetected even as close as 10 metres away maybe they should use pistols!!!

LEARN ABOUT THE PRINCIPLES OF MARKSMANSHIP THEN TELL US ABOUT HOW MANY WEAPONS YOU HAVE.

 

[Flintlock]

my apalogies actually i have been usualy hanging out on forms with a lot of indians and my manners have detoriated due to that
i apalogies to any one and every one who i have been rude to i wil be more respectable and responsible in future

Blame the Indians!! Those bastards spoilt your (hitherto beautiful) manners!

Anyways, from what I know about INSAS, it had some problems early on..
Most problems arose due to incompetent materials testing and build quality.

Jamming, cracking of cartridges, problems in Siachen have been sorted out.

 

[Tang0]

A note on average engagement ranges. Most *Fatal* small arms engagements do not happen at >250 meters. The geography of places like the outback of Pakistan and Afghanistan may change that figure, but back in WW2 the Germans concluded that the vast majority of engagements were starting at the 100-200 meter range. This conclusion is directly responsible for the development of the Assault Rifle as you know it today. The MP-40 was fairly well useless at >75M while the KAR-98 really only shone at engagements greater than 150M. Something was needed to bridge the gap, say hello to the STG-44. The US came to the same conclusion before they decided to start the DARPA project that led to the M-16. This of course assumes combat in Forest or built-up cities or towns. Those places are generally where most wars happen. Furthermore, there are plenty of situations in modern warfare where is not reasonable at all to just start throwing frag grenades through doors that the enemy *May* be behind. Especially if you are operating in your own country. All that said, the G3 is not a bad weapon all around from what the experts say, and the number of countries using it. It is cheap and relatively reliable. Its length makes it somewhat difficult to bring to bear quickly on a new target, but this is offset by the cost of changing weapons and calibers.

About the jamming. Yeah, I haven't fired an M-16 since OCS, and looking about it seems that they have drastically improved jamming rates. The drill sergeants still gave that number, but I think they were just trying to emphasize the importance of cleaning your weapon.

Edit-
Looking about, with proper cleaning, the weapon now jams every 2000 rounds or so. In the sticks that turns into 400-500 rounds.

 

[peshawar]

@Peshawar

I have no experience from PA, but i have been a conscript in Norway where the G3 rifle is used, in another words i have used this weapon myself. You describe this weapon as it is a useless toy, but infact it is still in active service in many armies around the world, do you wonder why?

The size of the rifle is not so bad, it is roughly a meter in length and weigh about 5 kg with ammo. If you are not shaped as a underfed soldier you should not have problems handling the rifle. Yes the recoil is there and it is a bit hard, but again you will handle it fine since you shoot single-shots and not engage the full auto function. About the jamming problem, i have no experience of it but it occured to people who where too lazy for properly cleaning their rifle.

A correction, the rear metal sight of a g3 is marked to 400 meters not 300. And i have shot targets myself upto 300 meters. If you have more training and experience there should be no problem to hit a elephant at 500 meters as you claim.

This weaopon is used today by Norwegian ISAF forces in Afghanistan, if it is in possesion off all the flauds you claim, then why havent the soldiers complained about it? What we hear it is better to have this weapon against the Talibans AK-47, 7.62mm vs 7.62mm then other NATO forces who has 5.56mm which in some cases is not fully mortal when in direct clash against the AK-47.

yes the the g3 rear site is maked four hundreed indeed my mistke ak47 is 8 hundreed (atho you cant realy expect to hit any thing with an ak at 800) and ak74 is 1100 (same case)
i actually have served a little time in pak army altho now i am out and jamming is a problem ,look the terrain has a lot to do with jamming

about not hitting an elephand at 500 meters and a man at 300 meters i was being SERCASTIC
acutally sadly from where i belong there are a lot of tribal war fares and due to that experience i can tell you that shooting a TARGET at 300 meters is fine
shooting a MAN at 300 meters who is moving hidding and shooting back is a compleately different issue
about the norway troops in afghanistan well budddy we all know how much combat have norwegian army seen in afghanistan

an empty g3 is 4.4kg
and when loaded its close to five as you said
now you must know that thats not the only thing a soilder carried
with all the stuff that a pakistani soilder carries and with a g3
it wil be very hard for a pakistan soilder to move around in mountains quickey and get there hands on a gurilla army that carries just a weapons and thats it

look do you guys seriously belive that G3 is better than AUG or an M4
or even an AK47
look G3 may be the best assulat weapon in the plans of punjab but it the worse weapon you can give to a soilder fighting in waziristan or in swat
it not well suited for every terrani like the AUG or the AK47

 

[peshawar]

1)

2)Wow what a **** justification for a weapon change. Because a tribesman can empty a magazine at closely bunched targets at close range the whole worlds armies should change their weapons immediately! Wanna hear a story about another bunch of Tribesmen who opened fire with their AK's at a British patrol (including a good friend of mine)? They all missed (at 100 metres)they then got killed.

LEARN ABOUT THE PRINCIPLES OF MARKSMANSHIP THEN TELL US ABOUT HOW MANY WEAPONS YOU HAVE.

lol cause the brits dont use G3 MANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

ok lets get it very simple
do you seriously belive that G3 is superior to AUG M4 M16 and AK74 AK101 ???????????????/

 

[PakForce Unlimited]

yes the the g3 rear site is maked four hundreed indeed my mistke ak47 is 8 hundreed (atho you cant realy expect to hit any thing with an ak at 800) and ak74 is 1100 (same case)
i actually have served a little time in pak army altho now i am out and jamming is a problem ,look the terrain has a lot to do with jamming

about not hitting an elephand at 500 meters and a man at 300 meters i was being SERCASTIC
acutally sadly from where i belong there are a lot of tribal war fares and due to that experience i can tell you that shooting a TARGET at 300 meters is fine
shooting a MAN at 300 meters who is moving hidding and shooting back is a compleately different issue
about the norway troops in afghanistan well budddy we all know how much combat have norwegian army seen in afghanistan

an empty g3 is 4.4kg
and when loaded its close to five as you said
now you must know that thats not the only thing a soilder carried
with all the stuff that a pakistani soilder carries and with a g3
it wil be very hard for a pakistan soilder to move around in mountains quickey and get there hands on a gurilla army that carries just a weapons and thats it

look do you guys seriously belive that G3 is better than AUG or an M4
or even an AK47
look G3 may be the best assulat weapon in the plans of punjab but it the worse weapon you can give to a soilder fighting in waziristan or in swat
it not well suited for every terrani like the AUG or the AK47

As i have not used other assault rifles besides the G3 i will not comment if they are superior or inferior againt the G3. Where in the army where you?
Yes i agree the terrain has a lot to say for jamming, but i have used the G3 sub zero Celsius in the snow and in the jungle full of mud and so on, still no jamming. But i guess sand and dust may have a another effect on the rifle?

I suggest you to read the forum rules before starting posting here, there is a nice rule about use of sarcasm. And yes the norwegian troops havent seen much "action" as troops from UK or US, that is because Norway did not send her troops to kill people but for intelligence, medical and reconnaissance mission but still now and then there is a strife between the troops and taliban where weapons like the G3 is used, and still no complaints against the jamming problem.

I dont know how much a Pakistani soldiers carry. But when on a field you gear up in such a way that you can dispose your rucksack in just seconds and then you just have the weapon, the military west with basic stuff like medic stuff, additional magasin, combat glasses and water and offcourse the gas mask and so on. Other than that you are very mobile, change of weapon will save you what? 1 kg?

I am not claiming anything. I dont know what is best in use in the mountain areas of Pakistan, but i consider the generals who have served in the army for decades have a lot of experience and knowledge to let them use the G3 rifle.

 

[fatman17]

my apalogies actually i have been usualy hanging out on forms with a lot of indians and my manners have detoriated due to that
i apalogies to any one and every one who i have been rude to i wil be more respectable and responsible in future

thanks brother - i must admit that you are a man of honour

 

[aryan2007]

my apalogies actually i have been usualy hanging out on forms with a lot of indians and my manners have detoriated due to that

BWtf.. had dare u say that u #$%$# .. we have manners u $$%$
kidding bro

PS: Have you seen the Pakistani Lawyers protest???

i apalogies to any one and every one who i have been rude to i wil be more respectable and responsible in future

thanks brother - i must admit that you are a man of honour

Awww that's so sweet...

 

[sparten]

Peshawar,
The reason we don't replace the G-3 is

1) Cost. It will cost a lot, a lot, a lot to replace the G-3, we have something like 2 million in the inventory (if all models including the ones for the reserves are accepted) plus the ammo, we have wearhouses full of the stuff.

2) The G-3 is fairly reliable, the problem with recoil and weight are there, but no porblems that can't be solved through training. And we have a fully professional army, not a consript one so we can put the effort.

3) The Pakistani soldier has to face a variety of terrian and often in the same war, often within a few days notice. The thing about the G-3 is that it works well in all areas, be it the desert or the Punjab or the mountains (only above 15,000 feet are there problems and 26 FF used the G-3s v well in the initial Siachin fights). Take the example of Guide Cav during the '65 war, they served in Kashmir, the Punjab and in the desert.

4) The PA has always been suspicious of the 5.56 mm M-16 type rifles, remember that the G-3 was chosen in competition with the AR-15 and in the 80's the PA evaluated the M-16 (some were actually used in trials on the LOC if memory serves), and the Styer AUG and both were found wanting.

5) It will take too long to train the entire army on a new rifle.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

my apalogies actually i have been usualy hanging out on forms with a lot of indians and my manners have detoriated due to that

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

In general, the HK G3 rifle can be described as one of the best 7.62mm NATO battle / assault rifles - reliable, versatile, controllable, non-expensive and, finally, very popular.

 

[peshawar]

Peshawar,
The reason we don't replace the G-3 is

1) Cost. It will cost a lot, a lot, a lot to replace the G-3, we have something like 2 million in the inventory (if all models including the ones for the reserves are accepted) plus the ammo, we have wearhouses full of the stuff.

2) The G-3 is fairly reliable, the problem with recoil and weight are there, but no porblems that can't be solved through training. And we have a fully professional army, not a consript one so we can put the effort.

3) The Pakistani soldier has to face a variety of terrian and often in the same war, often within a few days notice. The thing about the G-3 is that it works well in all areas, be it the desert or the Punjab or the mountains (only above 15,000 feet are there problems and 26 FF used the G-3s v well in the initial Siachin fights). Take the example of Guide Cav during the '65 war, they served in Kashmir, the Punjab and in the desert.

4) The PA has always been suspicious of the 5.56 mm M-16 type rifles, remember that the G-3 was chosen in competition with the AR-15 and in the 80's the PA evaluated the M-16 (some were actually used in trials on the LOC if memory serves), and the Styer AUG and both were found wanting.

5) It will take too long to train the entire army on a new rifle.

well ya thats the reason i guess
its actually the cost
and ya i guess 30 round mag should be introduced for the G3
and in swat and FATA they should be equiped with ak47 thats not that costly i guess