Why is the Rafale outselling even the F-35? (since 2021)

[khansaheeb]

Once Called A 'Cursed Aircraft', How Dassault Rafale Jets 'Rose From The Ashes' & Salvaged The French Pride

Dassault Rafale has now transformed into one of the most sought-after fighter jet brands in the world. The pact between France & UAE has enhanced the reputation

eurasiantimes.com

Once Called A ‘Cursed Aircraft’, How Dassault Rafale Jets ‘Rose From The Ashes’ & Salvaged The French Pride​

EUROPEEXPERT REVIEWS
ByAshish Dangwal

December 12, 2021

Once called a “cursed aircraft”, the Dassault Rafale has now transformed into one of the most sought-after fighter jet brands in the world. The recent agreement between France and the UAE for the purchase of 80 Rafales has enhanced the reputation and credibility of the French jets.

MUST READ: China’s ‘Unhackable’ Satellite Quantum System Promises To Defend World’s Largest Power Grid Against Cyber Attacks​

There were times when the French political leadership had to engage in extensive dialogue and negotiations to obtain a single export order. On several occasions, the fighter jet came close to landing the first export order, just to fall short at the last stage. However, there’s no denying that the Dassault Rafale is now on a roll.

Rafale at Aero India 2017 (Wikipedia Commons)
Despite its long inability to attract overseas customers, the 4.5 generation “omni-role” fighter jet is now getting a lot of traction in the market owing to operational capabilities.
The first prototype of Rafale that made its maiden flight in July 1986 was hailed as a truly modern combat aircraft. Its powerful electronic surveillance and jammer technology, as well as electronically scanned radar, made it a world-class jet.

Dassault Rafale – The Early Setbacks​

Dassault was initially unable to export the Rafale outside of France. The company’s Mirage jets were popular in the 1970s, but Rafale did not have the same success. The fact that it was more expensive than its American rivals was a key hurdle to its export prospects.
According to a paper published by the University of Toulon in 2011, Rafale’s market value was around €100 million, putting it among the costliest fighter jets in the world. Its rivals such as European Eurofighter, Swedish Gripen, and American jets, usually sell for less than €100 million.
France is said to have spent more than $50 billion on Rafale’s development, a large sum for a country that spends approximately $60 billion on defense each year. This had become a major issue during then-President Nicolas Sarkozy’s tenure as the country was facing economic hardship.
Since 2006, France has been flying the Rafale fighters, which proved their combat capabilities in Afghanistan, Libya, and Mali.
Dassault suffered setbacks in Brazil, Libya, Morocco, and Switzerland after Rafale failed to edge out the competitors. It suffered a series of failures in export tenders, exacerbating the situation to the point where, in 2011, France’s defense minister indicated that if foreign purchasers do not emerge, production of the Rafale fighter jet could be halted.

M88 Engine Rafale – Via Dassault Aviation
The Republic of Korea picked the F-15K Slam Eagle over rivals like Dassault in 2002. The worries about compatibility with US aircraft, the discussion with the Canadian defense department was halted in 2005. In the same year, after a tight race, Singapore picked the F-15SG Strike Eagle.
A sale to Morocco in 2007 fell through in favor of the F-16C/D. In 2011, Switzerland picked the Gripen, while Oman ordered 12 Typhoons in 2012.
Brazil chose the Gripen in 2013 after a five-year selection process. All these were considered as a major disappointment for France, as countries were picking the F-15K Slam Eagle, F-15SG Strike Eagle, F-16C/D, Gripen, and Typhoon over the Rafale.

Egypt A Savior​

In 2015, France finally secured a buyer for its Rafale fighter jet after years of hunting. Egypt ordered 24 planes, announced by then-President Francois Hollande, in a transaction worth 5.2 billion euros ($5.9 billion). In May 2021, Cairo bought another 30 aircraft from France, taking the total number of Rafales with the Egyptian Air Force to 54.

Rafales in flight – Dassault Aviation
The Egyptian Defense Ministry then stated that the new acquisition would be paid through a loan over a period of at least 10 years, but provided no other specifics.
The new Rafales were worth around $4.5bn. Dassault won the contract over the F-16 as Egypt’s most sophisticated fighter. This was a significant development as Egypt has had a long-standing special relationship with the F-16s, and is the world’s fourth-largest operator of the Fighting Falcon.


According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, Egypt is the world’s third-largest weapons importer, behind Saudi Arabia and India. Its arms sales have increased by 136% in the last decade, and it has expanded its procurement beyond the United States, ordering military equipment from France, Germany, and Russia.
The Rafale deal sparked concerns regarding the human rights abuses by Egypt, however, French President Emmanuel Macron said he would not link the transfer of weapons to Egypt with human rights issues because he did not want to jeopardize Cairo’s ability to combat regional threats.

Dassault Bagged A Series Of Deals ​

Qatar’s air force modernization program began in 2015. It agreed to purchase 24 Rafale multi-role jets from Dassault Aviation for $6 billion. In 2018, another 12 Rafales were ordered, bringing the total number of Rafales to 36. Qatar also has the option of purchasing 36 more Rafales.
Greece became the first European buyer of the French Rafales in January 2021, when it struck a $2.8 billion deal to purchase 18 fighter planes. Greece will purchase 12 second-hand jets from the French Air Force inventory and 6 new jets by the end of 2022 under the terms of the arrangement.


As previously reported by EurAsian Times, France and Croatia have also inked a deal to buy 12 Rafale fighters for nearly one billion euros.
The state-to-state deal includes the transfer of 12 Rafale fighter planes and their components from the French Air Force as well as training for the Croatian Air Force. The logistics support contract will cover all resources and additional spare parts for these aircraft over the period of three years.

Rafale Fighters For India​

In 2015, Indian PM Narendra Modi announced the historic defense deal with Dassault Aviation to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets. Worldwide manufacturers had participated in India’s lucrative air force tender.


Lockheed Martin’s F-16s, Boeing’s F/A-18s, the Eurofighter Typhoon, Russia’s MiG-35, Saab’s Gripen, and Dassault’s Rafale were among the bidders. The IAF tested each of these aircraft, and two of them — the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Dassault Rafale — were shortlisted after a thorough review of the bids.
Dassault won the deal to supply 126 fighter jets because it was the lowest bidder and the planes were said to be easy to maintain. In 2012, the Indian side and Dassault began discussions after Rafale was awarded the contract. Initially, India planned to purchase 126 jets, but the number was reduced to 36 later.
In addition, Dassault is being considered a strong competitor for IAF’s MMRCA 2.0 contract where it is again pitted against the same competitors and is touted as IAF’s favorite.
Even the Indian Navy is also looking for multirole combat fighter jets and is reportedly considering combining the procurement tender along with the IAF tender for 114 fighters that is underway.

French Air Force Rafale B in flight – Dassault Aviation
The Rafale Marine (Naval version of Rafales) is up against F-18 Super Hornets for the Indian Navy contract. The Request for Interest (RFI) for Naval fighters was issued in January 2017 after long delays and technical glitches in building the indigenous HAL-Tejas for the Navy.

UAE Becomes The Biggest Buyer ​

Dassault Aviation has received a massive order from the UAE for 80 Rafale multirole fighter jets. The contract had been in the works for quite some time, with the Emiratis’ interest in the Rafale extending back to at least 2009.
The Rafale contract is worth a total of $16 billion, including the cost of additional weaponry for the planes. These contracts are part of a wider $19 billion French arms package for the UAE, which includes 12 Airbus H225M Caracal military transport helicopters.


“This contract is the result of total mobilization by Dassault Aviation alongside the Emirates Air Force and comes on the back of a more than 45-year-long relationship of trust between the United Arab Emirates and our company, built on the Mirage family of fighter aircraft, particularly the Mirage, whose modernization began two years ago,” Dassault said in a statement to the press.
The UAE Air Force and Air Defense will be the first export recipient of the F4-standard Rafale. The Rafale’s current F4 version is part of a continual improvement process, and it’s tailored for networked combat, with new satellite and intra-flight data links, as well as a communication server and software-defined radio.
Apart from that, the radar, electro-optical system, and helmet-mounted display have all been upgraded on the F4. The Mica NG air-to-air missile and the 2,200-pound version of the AASM modular air-to-ground weapon are among the new weapons being integrated. Although some of the F4 standard’s functions are projected to be available as early as next year, the standard is scheduled to be completely operational by 2024.
The contract with the UAE is a boon to the French aerospace industry, particularly the Rafale fighter, which now has six foreign buyers.
In addition, Dassault Aviation was trapped in an endless loop and it needed more orders before economies of scale allowed it to sell at a lower price, but countries were hesitant to commit due to the high cost. With the UAE’s order of 80 jets, Dassault Aviation will be able to offer more attractive proposals to other potential buyers.

Indonesia: A Potential Customer Of Rafales?​

Another potential client that has recently been linked is Indonesia. Although France does not have a long tradition of substantial arms transfers to Indonesia, the country’s military industry has been making advances in recent years, including the delivery of eight more Airbus Helicopters H225M combat search and rescue helicopters to the Indonesian Air Force in 2019.
It is apparent that the country is anxious to add a new fighter to its arsenal to help modernize them. The Indonesian Air Force’s fighter fleet consists of eight F-16A/B Block 15OCU fighters that were delivered in 1989, as well as 23 upgraded F-16C/Ds. One of them crashed in 2015.
In addition to this US-supplied aircraft, the Indonesian Air Force operates five single-seat Su-27SKs, two twin-seater Su-30MKs and nine twin-seater Su-30MK2s. The latest multi-role, single-seat Su-35 variant was expected to be purchased by Jakarta, and a $1.1 billion agreement for 11 aircraft was reportedly signed in July 2017.
The United States, on the other hand, is said to have pressed Jakarta to abandon the Moscow agreement, threatening sanctions in the process. In such a case, Indonesia might opt for the Rafales.

Rafale Does Not Face Any US Hurdle​

The Rafale jet’s main attraction is that it avoids any potential American blockade. The United States sells weapons under very rigorous terms, including how and where they should be used. The fact that the French are often fiercely independent in comparison to some of the larger countries may offer a Rafale user an edge.
Despite the fact that other arms manufacturers, particularly American manufacturers, have endeavored to lower costs and increase political consensus by developing global supply chains, France wants to keep its own military-industrial base.
The French taxpayer will pay more as a result, but the Air Force around the world may regard this as a benefit: rather than worrying about maintaining connections with a number of nations, nearly all of the components for the Rafale are sourced within France, easing logistics.
The Eurofighter is a collaborative effort involving four different production lines. This could result in a lot of complications down the road for someone like India, especially when New Delhi may demand the establishment of a manufacturing line, local production, or transfer of technology. France, thus, has a clear advantage over someone like Eurofighter or SAAB.

 

[Nuclear Clown]

Once Called A 'Cursed Aircraft', How Dassault Rafale Jets 'Rose From The Ashes' & Salvaged The French Pride

Dassault Rafale has now transformed into one of the most sought-after fighter jet brands in the world. The pact between France & UAE has enhanced the reputation

eurasiantimes.com

Once Called A ‘Cursed Aircraft’, How Dassault Rafale Jets ‘Rose From The Ashes’ & Salvaged The French Pride​

EUROPEEXPERT REVIEWS
ByAshish Dangwal

December 12, 2021

Once called a “cursed aircraft”, the Dassault Rafale has now transformed into one of the most sought-after fighter jet brands in the world. The recent agreement between France and the UAE for the purchase of 80 Rafales has enhanced the reputation and credibility of the French jets.

There were times when the French political leadership had to engage in extensive dialogue and negotiations to obtain a single export order. On several occasions, the fighter jet came close to landing the first export order, just to fall short at the last stage. However, there’s no denying that the Dassault Rafale is now on a roll.

Rafale at Aero India 2017 (Wikipedia Commons)
Despite its long inability to attract overseas customers, the 4.5 generation “omni-role” fighter jet is now getting a lot of traction in the market owing to operational capabilities.
The first prototype of Rafale that made its maiden flight in July 1986 was hailed as a truly modern combat aircraft. Its powerful electronic surveillance and jammer technology, as well as electronically scanned radar, made it a world-class jet.

Dassault Rafale – The Early Setbacks​

Dassault was initially unable to export the Rafale outside of France. The company’s Mirage jets were popular in the 1970s, but Rafale did not have the same success. The fact that it was more expensive than its American rivals was a key hurdle to its export prospects.
According to a paper published by the University of Toulon in 2011, Rafale’s market value was around €100 million, putting it among the costliest fighter jets in the world. Its rivals such as European Eurofighter, Swedish Gripen, and American jets, usually sell for less than €100 million.
France is said to have spent more than $50 billion on Rafale’s development, a large sum for a country that spends approximately $60 billion on defense each year. This had become a major issue during then-President Nicolas Sarkozy’s tenure as the country was facing economic hardship.
Since 2006, France has been flying the Rafale fighters, which proved their combat capabilities in Afghanistan, Libya, and Mali.
Dassault suffered setbacks in Brazil, Libya, Morocco, and Switzerland after Rafale failed to edge out the competitors. It suffered a series of failures in export tenders, exacerbating the situation to the point where, in 2011, France’s defense minister indicated that if foreign purchasers do not emerge, production of the Rafale fighter jet could be halted.

M88 Engine Rafale – Via Dassault Aviation
The Republic of Korea picked the F-15K Slam Eagle over rivals like Dassault in 2002. The worries about compatibility with US aircraft, the discussion with the Canadian defense department was halted in 2005. In the same year, after a tight race, Singapore picked the F-15SG Strike Eagle.
A sale to Morocco in 2007 fell through in favor of the F-16C/D. In 2011, Switzerland picked the Gripen, while Oman ordered 12 Typhoons in 2012.
Brazil chose the Gripen in 2013 after a five-year selection process. All these were considered as a major disappointment for France, as countries were picking the F-15K Slam Eagle, F-15SG Strike Eagle, F-16C/D, Gripen, and Typhoon over the Rafale.

Egypt A Savior​

In 2015, France finally secured a buyer for its Rafale fighter jet after years of hunting. Egypt ordered 24 planes, announced by then-President Francois Hollande, in a transaction worth 5.2 billion euros ($5.9 billion). In May 2021, Cairo bought another 30 aircraft from France, taking the total number of Rafales with the Egyptian Air Force to 54.

Rafales in flight – Dassault Aviation
The Egyptian Defense Ministry then stated that the new acquisition would be paid through a loan over a period of at least 10 years, but provided no other specifics.
The new Rafales were worth around $4.5bn. Dassault won the contract over the F-16 as Egypt’s most sophisticated fighter. This was a significant development as Egypt has had a long-standing special relationship with the F-16s, and is the world’s fourth-largest operator of the Fighting Falcon.


According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, Egypt is the world’s third-largest weapons importer, behind Saudi Arabia and India. Its arms sales have increased by 136% in the last decade, and it has expanded its procurement beyond the United States, ordering military equipment from France, Germany, and Russia.
The Rafale deal sparked concerns regarding the human rights abuses by Egypt, however, French President Emmanuel Macron said he would not link the transfer of weapons to Egypt with human rights issues because he did not want to jeopardize Cairo’s ability to combat regional threats.

Dassault Bagged A Series Of Deals ​

Qatar’s air force modernization program began in 2015. It agreed to purchase 24 Rafale multi-role jets from Dassault Aviation for $6 billion. In 2018, another 12 Rafales were ordered, bringing the total number of Rafales to 36. Qatar also has the option of purchasing 36 more Rafales.
Greece became the first European buyer of the French Rafales in January 2021, when it struck a $2.8 billion deal to purchase 18 fighter planes. Greece will purchase 12 second-hand jets from the French Air Force inventory and 6 new jets by the end of 2022 under the terms of the arrangement.


As previously reported by EurAsian Times, France and Croatia have also inked a deal to buy 12 Rafale fighters for nearly one billion euros.
The state-to-state deal includes the transfer of 12 Rafale fighter planes and their components from the French Air Force as well as training for the Croatian Air Force. The logistics support contract will cover all resources and additional spare parts for these aircraft over the period of three years.

Rafale Fighters For India​

In 2015, Indian PM Narendra Modi announced the historic defense deal with Dassault Aviation to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets. Worldwide manufacturers had participated in India’s lucrative air force tender.


Lockheed Martin’s F-16s, Boeing’s F/A-18s, the Eurofighter Typhoon, Russia’s MiG-35, Saab’s Gripen, and Dassault’s Rafale were among the bidders. The IAF tested each of these aircraft, and two of them — the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Dassault Rafale — were shortlisted after a thorough review of the bids.
Dassault won the deal to supply 126 fighter jets because it was the lowest bidder and the planes were said to be easy to maintain. In 2012, the Indian side and Dassault began discussions after Rafale was awarded the contract. Initially, India planned to purchase 126 jets, but the number was reduced to 36 later.
In addition, Dassault is being considered a strong competitor for IAF’s MMRCA 2.0 contract where it is again pitted against the same competitors and is touted as IAF’s favorite.
Even the Indian Navy is also looking for multirole combat fighter jets and is reportedly considering combining the procurement tender along with the IAF tender for 114 fighters that is underway.

French Air Force Rafale B in flight – Dassault Aviation
The Rafale Marine (Naval version of Rafales) is up against F-18 Super Hornets for the Indian Navy contract. The Request for Interest (RFI) for Naval fighters was issued in January 2017 after long delays and technical glitches in building the indigenous HAL-Tejas for the Navy.

UAE Becomes The Biggest Buyer ​

Dassault Aviation has received a massive order from the UAE for 80 Rafale multirole fighter jets. The contract had been in the works for quite some time, with the Emiratis’ interest in the Rafale extending back to at least 2009.
The Rafale contract is worth a total of $16 billion, including the cost of additional weaponry for the planes. These contracts are part of a wider $19 billion French arms package for the UAE, which includes 12 Airbus H225M Caracal military transport helicopters.


“This contract is the result of total mobilization by Dassault Aviation alongside the Emirates Air Force and comes on the back of a more than 45-year-long relationship of trust between the United Arab Emirates and our company, built on the Mirage family of fighter aircraft, particularly the Mirage, whose modernization began two years ago,” Dassault said in a statement to the press.
The UAE Air Force and Air Defense will be the first export recipient of the F4-standard Rafale. The Rafale’s current F4 version is part of a continual improvement process, and it’s tailored for networked combat, with new satellite and intra-flight data links, as well as a communication server and software-defined radio.
Apart from that, the radar, electro-optical system, and helmet-mounted display have all been upgraded on the F4. The Mica NG air-to-air missile and the 2,200-pound version of the AASM modular air-to-ground weapon are among the new weapons being integrated. Although some of the F4 standard’s functions are projected to be available as early as next year, the standard is scheduled to be completely operational by 2024.
The contract with the UAE is a boon to the French aerospace industry, particularly the Rafale fighter, which now has six foreign buyers.
In addition, Dassault Aviation was trapped in an endless loop and it needed more orders before economies of scale allowed it to sell at a lower price, but countries were hesitant to commit due to the high cost. With the UAE’s order of 80 jets, Dassault Aviation will be able to offer more attractive proposals to other potential buyers.

Indonesia: A Potential Customer Of Rafales?​

Another potential client that has recently been linked is Indonesia. Although France does not have a long tradition of substantial arms transfers to Indonesia, the country’s military industry has been making advances in recent years, including the delivery of eight more Airbus Helicopters H225M combat search and rescue helicopters to the Indonesian Air Force in 2019.
It is apparent that the country is anxious to add a new fighter to its arsenal to help modernize them. The Indonesian Air Force’s fighter fleet consists of eight F-16A/B Block 15OCU fighters that were delivered in 1989, as well as 23 upgraded F-16C/Ds. One of them crashed in 2015.
In addition to this US-supplied aircraft, the Indonesian Air Force operates five single-seat Su-27SKs, two twin-seater Su-30MKs and nine twin-seater Su-30MK2s. The latest multi-role, single-seat Su-35 variant was expected to be purchased by Jakarta, and a $1.1 billion agreement for 11 aircraft was reportedly signed in July 2017.
The United States, on the other hand, is said to have pressed Jakarta to abandon the Moscow agreement, threatening sanctions in the process. In such a case, Indonesia might opt for the Rafales.

Rafale Does Not Face Any US Hurdle​

The Rafale jet’s main attraction is that it avoids any potential American blockade. The United States sells weapons under very rigorous terms, including how and where they should be used. The fact that the French are often fiercely independent in comparison to some of the larger countries may offer a Rafale user an edge.
Despite the fact that other arms manufacturers, particularly American manufacturers, have endeavored to lower costs and increase political consensus by developing global supply chains, France wants to keep its own military-industrial base.
The French taxpayer will pay more as a result, but the Air Force around the world may regard this as a benefit: rather than worrying about maintaining connections with a number of nations, nearly all of the components for the Rafale are sourced within France, easing logistics.
The Eurofighter is a collaborative effort involving four different production lines. This could result in a lot of complications down the road for someone like India, especially when New Delhi may demand the establishment of a manufacturing line, local production, or transfer of technology. France, thus, has a clear advantage over someone like Eurofighter or SAAB.

Well, I must correct many false assumptions in your post as well as from the whole topic: most of the material about Rafale is NOT translated into English, and strangely, there is often stuff lost in translation, e.g. the official spec sheath of French MinDef for the Rafale F4 upgrade includes "Renforcement of Rafale's stealth"... You won't see a single foreign aviation website including this when they listed the features of the new upgrade.
The very secretive habits of both Dassault and the French MinDef don't help: just the fact that Rafale is stealth was classified from the time of the decision to make it so in 1988 until Prez. François Hollande lifted this in Dec.2015 in the JORF.

First military to have went public about Rafale's stealth was IAF air marshall SB Deo. In a conference about the future of air combat at the PARIS AIR FORUM 2018 in...2017 (!) French Air Chief of Staff gen. Lanata confirmed what was a long ongoing rumour of which DARPA dudes confirmed the feasibility as soon as 2004 : Rafale uses active cancellation of radar waves. There are also rumours that the B-2 also uses such feature which is obvious since France was the first to introduce stealth navy vessels in 1996.

"Despite its long inability to attract overseas customers, the 4.5 generation “omni-role” fighter jet is now getting a lot of traction in the market owing to operational capabilities."
Dassault never called Rafale a 4.5 gen aircraft and even mocked the Lockheed-Martin's sales department pitch about generations of aircraft. Dassault is more into small steps advances, if you want something sticking to what you perceive as 4.5 gen, Mirage-2000 has only 1m² RCS and can be upgraded with both French and Israeli AESA radars, etc, actually, Rafale's systems have been designed in a way you can use these as drop-in upgrades for the Mirage-2000

"According to a paper published by the University of Toulon in 2011, Rafale’s market value was around €100 million, putting it among the costliest fighter jets in the world. Its rivals such as European Eurofighter, Swedish Gripen, and American jets, usually sell for less than €100 million."
Except that at €100 millions, Rafale is delivered with a serious weapons package. At this moment, Rafale-C's flyaway cost was €68 millions. UK paid €142M flyaway cost for the Typhoon Tranche 1 unable to do air strikes. Today, thanks to scale economy, a Rafale-C sells for €57M while a Typhoon Tranche.4 goes for €89M. A Super Hornet costs about $55M but if you don't want to be an easy prey, better go for the Growler (which used to sell for $100M but has been reduced) and its powerful jammers, thus you may end victim of home-on-jamming.

Moreover, anyone just basing aircraft choice on cost of purchase is an absolute idiot!

So, if you train 3 pilot per airframe in order to operate 24/7/365 in case of war, and to NATO norm = 180h/year, this means 540h/year per airframe... Now guess why USAF ends with its pilots flying only 127h/year, 7 hours over the limit to lose your licence, and many aircraft have the pilot's name painted on the cockpit : USAF cuts on costs of use and has issues at retaining pilots due to internal issues and much higher salaries in civilian aviation... Guess why USAF rarely performs great in international drills...
According to RAAF, the Super-Hornet's flight hour costs $24,000. Typhoon is said costing $42k/h. Rafale's initial hourly cost was initially of $16.5k/h but thanks to the M88-4e upgrade that soon became available, it was reduced to $10-12k.
By hourly cost, you mean not only the fuel, but the full maintenance, including engines maintenance which means you count full engines factory overhauls or replacements. When Saab advertised the Gripen-C at $4700/h, they tried to fool potential clients: just look at the GE F404 specs, this is the fuel you burn with this engine...

Rafale's M88, just like M53 on Mirage-2000, has a huge advantage: the engines being modular, you just repair or replace modules and no need to send a full engine back to the factory. Best operational capability in US service is the F-18 with 4 sorties/24h in intensive use for up to 2 months. Intensive for a Flanker means 2.5-3 sorties... Normal use of a Rafale means 6 sorties, Intensive=11 (!!!). For a short time, due to budget cuts, French AF had to reduce the annual spending per unit to about €2.5M... The availability was down to 52-58%... Even tho, it was still significant compared to other aircraft, if on budget, limiting to 1.5 pilot per airframe is feasible.

Another great point of interest :

Take-off at MTOW in 400m, auto-landing into 450m. You can operate Rafale from rather small roads, you will only need 2-3 techs, exceptionally 4, engines can be replaced into half an hour and very little gear is needed for maintenance. Just a few trucks even looking casual, will be needed, and the improvised base can change location between each sortie

"France is said to have spent more than $50 billion on Rafale’s development, a large sum for a country that spends approximately $60 billion on defense each year. This had become a major issue during then-President Nicolas Sarkozy’s tenure as the country was facing economic hardship."
This is Ludicrous!!! This was in French Francs and 1FF=€6.57 => €7.61 billion. Moreover, all the R&D happened under Mitterrand and Chirac tenure. Sarkozy became Prez in 2007, Rafale was already fully introduced at the moment! MOREOVER, most of Rafale's R&D was fully funded on the Dassault company's own money!!!

"Since 2006, France has been flying the Rafale fighters"
In fact, Rafale-M was already deployed from 2000 to 2004 on the aircraft carrier, reaching the FOC (full operational capability) F1 in June 2004 and a flotilla of 10 units. The F2 standard was introduced in 2005, and Rafale C/B got their FOC status in French AF in 2006, introducing directly the F2. The Navy's ten F1 were upgraded directly to F3 standard, starting in 2008.

"Indonesia: A Potential Customer Of Rafales?"​

Not potential : 42 units ordered

"Rafale Does Not Face Any US Hurdle The Rafale jet’s main attraction is that it avoids any potential American blockade."​

Well, they tried to block the export of the SCALP cruise missile as there were some US parts onboard. MBDA rapidly took measures to avoid the interference.
French AF bought an US ELINT system for its Rafales. Seems they didn't liked it a lot that despite US promises, there were several backdoors to relay data to NSA/CIA and beacons to allow to locate the Rafales. These rotten eggs were neutralized by the DGA.

In fact, Rafale is more what you will buy when you're able to dodge US pressure to buy less capable US aircraft and/or you're in a challenging area and you need a true force multiplier able to challenge a vast superior force in numbers. The hardcore US lobbying to prevent Rafale sales comes from the fact they perfectly understand that Rafale challenge their air and sea dominance, in fact, they already GREATLY feared Saddam's Mirage-F1 prior to the 1st Gulf War: they knew that the MF1, as soon as arrived in Iraq, had shot down 4 Iranian F-14s, bouncing these as being used mainly as AWACS or at shooting the AIM-54 at heavies, as well as they knew their navy-vessels weren't imune to the Exocet which near sunk the USS Stark... In fact, had Saddam adopted a 6 Days War like strategy, US surely would have ended liberating Kuwait, but at a serious cost... Rafale would be a MUCH MUCH bigger problem, even with only 150-200 units.

DO YOU KNOW THAT, between 1975-1985, Dassault built 175 F-16 and that they're maintaining F-35s? Well, not directly, but through a daughter company... They also co-built F-104Gs with Fokker. Thales is a joint venture between French state and Dassault and you barely have ALL industrial products in use today, and even architecture to shoes, that are conceived with Dassault's softwares, especially the CATIA CAD.

The Swedish Air Force commander explained that the Russian invasion of Ukraine motivated Sweden to develop a brand new strategy for a new generation of combatant aircraft.

All they need is to Rafalize the Gripen. Note that Gripen-E already uses Dassault radar absorbent materials (around 200kg).
Saab did a TERRIBLE mistake not fully playing the EU card, rather than opting for the Hawker P.106

They should have came closer to Dassault, opting either for the SOKO Novi-Avion

or the Tejas, but not as the butchered HAL version:

From the start, Safran said they can deliver the M88 with any dry thrust between 50kN and 100kN and afterburner up to 115kN without changing the core, then deliver under 18 months...
There comes the fun part : take the GE F404/414 used by Gripen, T-7, F-18, Tejas, KAI T-50, it's 89cm diameter... In its volume, you fit the 69cm diameter M88 added with 1000L+ of fuel... Since it needs less air flow, you can extend the fuel tanks into the intakes... Bingo, without stretching Gripen-C into Gripen-E, you can stuff as much fuel and more thrust into Gripen-C, in fact, you get more dry thrust than a Mirage-2000-9 in afterburner while ending 1500-1800kg lighter
M2k-9 empty weight : 7800kg, Mach2.2-2.3; 3200kg internal fuel, 7 tons payload...

Now do it clever: Gripen-D is 70cm longer, Tejas twin-seater and naval have a kinda hump... Just make the twin-seater airframe only, and either fit a cockpit in the back, or stuff all the insane SPECTRA system.
BTW, despite its smaller size... RBE-2/AESA's latest upgrade ends more powerful than the APG-81 mounted on F-35... In fact, Thales, which also designs the Raytheon radars, is not just doing GaN T/R modules, they add a 3rd element allowing each of their T/R modules to do the job of two US ones!!!
Moreover, DRDO asked Thales if they can mod the RBE-2/AESA to stuff it in Tejas' small nose and Thales did...
Actually, AFAIK, there's already a Rafalized Tejas demonstrator at the DRDO, all that is needed to make it a prototype is a reinforced airframe fot 11G w. the new fuel tanks (which, accordng to Dassault, would slash half a ton), and the BRS chute in case of engine failure.
Problem? By fear of US sanctions in case of nuke test or whatever, HAL has already bought 99 GE F414 for a Tejas Mk2 which will be Mirage-2000 sized and won't have a demonstrator airborne before 2024-2025...at best!!!
Gosh, the F404/414 is end 60's technology

The LEVCONs you see on both Tejas and the Su-57... Dassault patent... I doubt that Sukhoi pays royalties....

DID I MENTIONED?
That OSF-IT (EOST) and DDM-NG (EODAS/MAWS), as well as the TALIOS or AREOS pods use 2nd gen QWIP tech
This is very very bad news for some Su-57, J-20 or J-35 owner hoping to be stealth for Rafale.
Here's worse! If Rafale F4.1 upgrade campaign has started, the F4.2 will follow soon after... With 3rd gen QWIP...

CONCLUSION :
Rafale is often misunderstood, likely because a LOT of stuff is lost in translation and 99% not translated at all, then, the oversecretive tendencies of both the French military and Dassault don't help, but, when you read anything related for long, added with some confidences, Any way, the NATO's report (in pdf) about the 2011 campaign in Libya makes clear that there is no way a 4.5 gen aircraft can be left unharmed in such conditions, even worse : with help of both Russia and Serbia, air defences had been designed as a death trap for F-117, B-2 and F-22... Remember that during NATO drills vs. S-300, the only aircraft left unharmed was Rafale.

Other very interesting point : although nobody ordered such a config, room and payload would allow 6 hardpoints with two AAMs on each side of the pylon, and still be provision for a TER with 3 more, thus, the 2 central belly ones would not allow two Meteor racks, only 1 Meteor and 1 MICA. The two lateral belly (under engines) and the two outer-wing ones each allow one Meteor, the 2 wingtips are MICA-OK.
There is "just" potential to carry... 39 Meteor BVRAAMs and 9 MICA-NG at once.
There'd also be potential to carry 18 CBU-97/105... enough to demolish up to 18 40-strong tanks battalions...
Would Ukraine had 6 squadrons, the Russian invaders would end with no vehicles within 24h.
Would Taiwan replace its Mirage-2000s and all F-16s, including all those on order, China's reunification may happen, but not the way the CCP expects: the worst nightmare of any dictatorship may happen: democracy !

Countries like India, Indonesia who do not have an offer to buy F-35s buy Rafales instead.

Wasn't UAE granted access to F-35? Greece can get F-35 too... F-35 is NOT fit to replace F-16, says gen C.Q. Brown, head of USAF...

Rafale is cheaper to maintain as it is less complex and capable than F-35.

Cheaper to maintain? YES! Much cheaper, thanks to much better engines.
Without Rafale, F-35 would be impossible because CATIA. Dassault is way more accustomed than Lockheed at making efficient jet fighter, If by complexity, you mean creating a gas factory that fails on everything, yup, F-35 is more complex... About "capable", F-35's ONLY ADIZ interception 7 years after its introduction was a Tu-95

Don't expect a lot more, it has been banned from supersonic flight except in case of emergency

Not everyone can afford and eligible to buy F-35s. So they end up buying Rafales.

Greece and UAE are eligible for F-35... Croatia likely too, but 12 Rafales is already an enormous effort for them, at the same time, it's probably the only thing as cheap to operate as a MiG-21...

Don't forget French are infamous for corruption and kickbacks. So it helps Rafales over Grippen and Eurofighter.

Gripen, not Grippen. With BAe, the most crooked defence contractor on Earth, in charge of selling both, with a special law protecting them as long as they don't pay bribes in the UK, [near] ALL Gripen and Typhoon exports are tainted with bribery/kickback scandals
Since the 1998 Taiwan frigate scandal, a law has been voted that makes judges able to investigate despite stuff is classified "Secret Défense". French defence contractors can even give a crate of Champagne without ending with 3 judges on their tails! Even inviting to restaurants is under watch... Had bribes been paid, Brazil would never had bought Gripen-E which is less capable than a Mirage-2000 and Parrikar would have ordered the 270 Rafales India BADLY needs...

So tell me,if Pakistan was offered Rafale,you wouldn't want the PAF to buy it?

One thing for sure, they requested upgrades to push their ageing 2nd hand numerous Mirage-III/5 as 4.5th gen, as well as AIP upgrades to the Agosta-class submarines... Well, not a very clever idea to request such stuff with massive anti-French rallies in the country at the same time. Guess why Pak was rebuked?

I think the U.S. is banking on the KAI KF-21 being the real 'F-16 of the next generation.' In terms of sensitive LM tech, the KF-21 carries as much as the U.S. is releasing to release to the wider market. In a few years, we'll see KAI and LM jointly market the KF-21 to a lot of markets, especially those that are unable to get the F-35, but are still on amenable terms with Washington.

Except that the LM tech is obsolete! Rafale F4 introduces 3rd gen stealth, LM is still with 1st gen at recoating their F-35 for 28 hours per fight hour! They're not even able to come with a radar transparent polymer to protect the coating

F-35 is vastly superior jet fighter.

Is Rafale's F4 Spectra electronic war capability equal or better to that of the F-35 Block-3F and Growler?

Abhirup Sengupta's answer: It is intriguing that some people consider a Self-Protection EW suite equivalent to dedicated EW platforms providing stand-off jamming support. All EW suites on 4th gen. aircraft have a jamming power of about a 100 watts or so. EF Typhoon’s Praetorian DASS for instance...

qr.ae

The catch is that F-35 is not for sale to many countries.

Does he stills spell Rafale as "Rafael" ????
These guys at LM's sales dept are truly stunning! They would be able to sell shoes, gloves and trousers to someone with tetra-amelia syndrome but LM engineers are just into R&D and needed a Soviet mathematician works and a 1945 Nazi proto-stealth coating to be improved for their Have-Blue then F-117.
Sengupta has serious issues at understanding that researchers at ONERA's DEMR first came with the 2nd gen stealth in the early 90's which was first used on the Lafayette-class frigates (1996) then the Rafale (2003), then created what is probably the most impressive radar on Earth, the NOSTRADAMUS, then came near immediately with a 3rd gen stealth making ALL radars totally useless in 2006. Actually, in his scientific paper, DEMR's head estimated that first applications would come around 2020, and it'd take about 15 years to integrate into a jet fighter... The DEMR director of research was right : the M51.3 SLBM is here since June 2020, and Rafale F4 upgrade campaign started in2022, deliveries of new aircraft at the F4 standard expected for 2023.
Unfortunately, the paper wasn't retained when ONERA changed its website but copies are still available and I have one, thus, don't ask me to translate a scientific paper about plasmas, EM, radars etc in English, then if you find s.o. able to translate this stuff far beyond Sengupta's understanding, then, make yourself no illusions, the classified parts have never went public...

 

[Beny Karachun]

Rafale is cheaper to maintain as it is less complex and capable than F-35.

Not everyone can afford and eligible to buy F-35s. So they end up buying Rafales.

If I know anything about French stuff, they're not cheap to maintain.

 

[Beny Karachun]

This whole video is stupid. "Since 2021" like dude, that's literally just 1 year ago.

Jets aren't groceries that you buy every day. F-35s heavily out export the Rafale, it's not even a competition, selecting such a narrow time period and say that the Rafale had more exports in that short time is meaningless.

Almost all major western countries signed a multi-year contract with Lockheed Martin, and there's more countries to come thanks to Russia.

Mirage-2000 has only 1m² RCS and can be upgraded with both French and Israeli AESA radars, etc, actually, Rafale's systems have been designed in a way you can use these as drop-in upgrades for the Mirage-2000

1 squared meter RCS is huge, modern radars can easily track such targets and provide guidance.
Reduced signature is not enough to be considered stealthy, the only real stealthy fighters in this world are F-35, F-22 and maybe J-20.

 

[PradoTLC]

cos Israel buys (gets for free) and has a hand in the electronic suit F-35 .. so there may be some pesky spy ware in them

French are pure and clean fighters.

So tell me,if Pakistan was offered Rafale,you wouldn't want the PAF to buy it?

nope.

they would just buy the F-16V

Most are bought by ME countries.

and india

French will sell the same or superior equipment to your enemy.



French are anti-Muslim fascists. Muslim nations should to ban and not engage with them.

agree.. we should stop eating crisscoants, french fries and bathing in Loreal shampoo

dirty frenchiees

 

[Beny Karachun]

cos Israel buys (gets for free) and has a hand in the electronic suit F-35 .. so there may be some pesky spy ware in them

French are pure and clean fighters.

But they don't outexport the F-35. The F-35 trashes the Rafale in number of exports and also, it's just better.

Israel is also the first to use the F-35 in combat. First one to upgrade the F-35. Israel upgraded the F-4, F-15 and F-16. We have a track record of cutting massive costs on US upgrades. That's why only Israel has permission to do that.

 

[Chat SAMOSA]

Well, I must correct many false assumptions in your post as well as from the whole topic: most of the material about Rafale is NOT translated into English, and strangely, there is often stuff lost in translation, e.g. the official spec sheath of French MinDef for the Rafale F4 upgrade includes "Renforcement of Rafale's stealth"... You won't see a single foreign aviation website including this when they listed the features of the new upgrade.
The very secretive habits of both Dassault and the French MinDef don't help: just the fact that Rafale is stealth was classified from the time of the decision to make it so in 1988 until Prez. François Hollande lifted this in Dec.2015 in the JORF.

First military to have went public about Rafale's stealth was IAF air marshall SB Deo. In a conference about the future of air combat at the PARIS AIR FORUM 2018 in...2017 (!) French Air Chief of Staff gen. Lanata confirmed what was a long ongoing rumour of which DARPA dudes confirmed the feasibility as soon as 2004 : Rafale uses active cancellation of radar waves. There are also rumours that the B-2 also uses such feature which is obvious since France was the first to introduce stealth navy vessels in 1996.

"Despite its long inability to attract overseas customers, the 4.5 generation “omni-role” fighter jet is now getting a lot of traction in the market owing to operational capabilities."
Dassault never called Rafale a 4.5 gen aircraft and even mocked the Lockheed-Martin's sales department pitch about generations of aircraft. Dassault is more into small steps advances, if you want something sticking to what you perceive as 4.5 gen, Mirage-2000 has only 1m² RCS and can be upgraded with both French and Israeli AESA radars, etc, actually, Rafale's systems have been designed in a way you can use these as drop-in upgrades for the Mirage-2000

"According to a paper published by the University of Toulon in 2011, Rafale’s market value was around €100 million, putting it among the costliest fighter jets in the world. Its rivals such as European Eurofighter, Swedish Gripen, and American jets, usually sell for less than €100 million."
Except that at €100 millions, Rafale is delivered with a serious weapons package. At this moment, Rafale-C's flyaway cost was €68 millions. UK paid €142M flyaway cost for the Typhoon Tranche 1 unable to do air strikes. Today, thanks to scale economy, a Rafale-C sells for €57M while a Typhoon Tranche.4 goes for €89M. A Super Hornet costs about $55M but if you don't want to be an easy prey, better go for the Growler (which used to sell for $100M but has been reduced) and its powerful jammers, thus you may end victim of home-on-jamming.

Moreover, anyone just basing aircraft choice on cost of purchase is an absolute idiot!
View attachment 866133
So, if you train 3 pilot per airframe in order to operate 24/7/365 in case of war, and to NATO norm = 180h/year, this means 540h/year per airframe... Now guess why USAF ends with its pilots flying only 127h/year, 7 hours over the limit to lose your licence, and many aircraft have the pilot's name painted on the cockpit : USAF cuts on costs of use and has issues at retaining pilots due to internal issues and much higher salaries in civilian aviation... Guess why USAF rarely performs great in international drills...
According to RAAF, the Super-Hornet's flight hour costs $24,000. Typhoon is said costing $42k/h. Rafale's initial hourly cost was initially of $16.5k/h but thanks to the M88-4e upgrade that soon became available, it was reduced to $10-12k.
By hourly cost, you mean not only the fuel, but the full maintenance, including engines maintenance which means you count full engines factory overhauls or replacements. When Saab advertised the Gripen-C at $4700/h, they tried to fool potential clients: just look at the GE F404 specs, this is the fuel you burn with this engine...

Rafale's M88, just like M53 on Mirage-2000, has a huge advantage: the engines being modular, you just repair or replace modules and no need to send a full engine back to the factory. Best operational capability in US service is the F-18 with 4 sorties/24h in intensive use for up to 2 months. Intensive for a Flanker means 2.5-3 sorties... Normal use of a Rafale means 6 sorties, Intensive=11 (!!!). For a short time, due to budget cuts, French AF had to reduce the annual spending per unit to about €2.5M... The availability was down to 52-58%... Even tho, it was still significant compared to other aircraft, if on budget, limiting to 1.5 pilot per airframe is feasible.

Another great point of interest :

Take-off at MTOW in 400m, auto-landing into 450m. You can operate Rafale from rather small roads, you will only need 2-3 techs, exceptionally 4, engines can be replaced into half an hour and very little gear is needed for maintenance. Just a few trucks even looking casual, will be needed, and the improvised base can change location between each sortie

"France is said to have spent more than $50 billion on Rafale’s development, a large sum for a country that spends approximately $60 billion on defense each year. This had become a major issue during then-President Nicolas Sarkozy’s tenure as the country was facing economic hardship."
This is Ludicrous!!! This was in French Francs and 1FF=€6.57 => €7.61 billion. Moreover, all the R&D happened under Mitterrand and Chirac tenure. Sarkozy became Prez in 2007, Rafale was already fully introduced at the moment! MOREOVER, most of Rafale's R&D was fully funded on the Dassault company's own money!!!

"Since 2006, France has been flying the Rafale fighters"
In fact, Rafale-M was already deployed from 2000 to 2004 on the aircraft carrier, reaching the FOC (full operational capability) F1 in June 2004 and a flotilla of 10 units. The F2 standard was introduced in 2005, and Rafale C/B got their FOC status in French AF in 2006, introducing directly the F2. The Navy's ten F1 were upgraded directly to F3 standard, starting in 2008.

"Indonesia: A Potential Customer Of Rafales?"​

Not potential : 42 units ordered

"Rafale Does Not Face Any US Hurdle The Rafale jet’s main attraction is that it avoids any potential American blockade."​

Well, they tried to block the export of the SCALP cruise missile as there were some US parts onboard. MBDA rapidly took measures to avoid the interference.
French AF bought an US ELINT system for its Rafales. Seems they didn't liked it a lot that despite US promises, there were several backdoors to relay data to NSA/CIA and beacons to allow to locate the Rafales. These rotten eggs were neutralized by the DGA.

In fact, Rafale is more what you will buy when you're able to dodge US pressure to buy less capable US aircraft and/or you're in a challenging area and you need a true force multiplier able to challenge a vast superior force in numbers. The hardcore US lobbying to prevent Rafale sales comes from the fact they perfectly understand that Rafale challenge their air and sea dominance, in fact, they already GREATLY feared Saddam's Mirage-F1 prior to the 1st Gulf War: they knew that the MF1, as soon as arrived in Iraq, had shot down 4 Iranian F-14s, bouncing these as being used mainly as AWACS or at shooting the AIM-54 at heavies, as well as they knew their navy-vessels weren't imune to the Exocet which near sunk the USS Stark... In fact, had Saddam adopted a 6 Days War like strategy, US surely would have ended liberating Kuwait, but at a serious cost... Rafale would be a MUCH MUCH bigger problem, even with only 150-200 units.

DO YOU KNOW THAT, between 1975-1985, Dassault built 175 F-16 and that they're maintaining F-35s? Well, not directly, but through a daughter company... They also co-built F-104Gs with Fokker. Thales is a joint venture between French state and Dassault and you barely have ALL industrial products in use today, and even architecture to shoes, that are conceived with Dassault's softwares, especially the CATIA CAD.


All they need is to Rafalize the Gripen. Note that Gripen-E already uses Dassault radar absorbent materials (around 200kg).
Saab did a TERRIBLE mistake not fully playing the EU card, rather than opting for the Hawker P.106
View attachment 866512
They should have came closer to Dassault, opting either for the SOKO Novi-Avion
View attachment 866513
View attachment 866514
or the Tejas, but not as the butchered HAL version:
View attachment 866515
From the start, Safran said they can deliver the M88 with any dry thrust between 50kN and 100kN and afterburner up to 115kN without changing the core, then deliver under 18 months...
There comes the fun part : take the GE F404/414 used by Gripen, T-7, F-18, Tejas, KAI T-50, it's 89cm diameter... In its volume, you fit the 69cm diameter M88 added with 1000L+ of fuel... Since it needs less air flow, you can extend the fuel tanks into the intakes... Bingo, without stretching Gripen-C into Gripen-E, you can stuff as much fuel and more thrust into Gripen-C, in fact, you get more dry thrust than a Mirage-2000-9 in afterburner while ending 1500-1800kg lighter
M2k-9 empty weight : 7800kg, Mach2.2-2.3; 3200kg internal fuel, 7 tons payload...

Now do it clever: Gripen-D is 70cm longer, Tejas twin-seater and naval have a kinda hump... Just make the twin-seater airframe only, and either fit a cockpit in the back, or stuff all the insane SPECTRA system.
BTW, despite its smaller size... RBE-2/AESA's latest upgrade ends more powerful than the APG-81 mounted on F-35... In fact, Thales, which also designs the Raytheon radars, is not just doing GaN T/R modules, they add a 3rd element allowing each of their T/R modules to do the job of two US ones!!!
Moreover, DRDO asked Thales if they can mod the RBE-2/AESA to stuff it in Tejas' small nose and Thales did...
Actually, AFAIK, there's already a Rafalized Tejas demonstrator at the DRDO, all that is needed to make it a prototype is a reinforced airframe fot 11G w. the new fuel tanks (which, accordng to Dassault, would slash half a ton), and the BRS chute in case of engine failure.
Problem? By fear of US sanctions in case of nuke test or whatever, HAL has already bought 99 GE F414 for a Tejas Mk2 which will be Mirage-2000 sized and won't have a demonstrator airborne before 2024-2025...at best!!!
Gosh, the F404/414 is end 60's technology

The LEVCONs you see on both Tejas and the Su-57... Dassault patent... I doubt that Sukhoi pays royalties....

DID I MENTIONED?
That OSF-IT (EOST) and DDM-NG (EODAS/MAWS), as well as the TALIOS or AREOS pods use 2nd gen QWIP tech
This is very very bad news for some Su-57, J-20 or J-35 owner hoping to be stealth for Rafale.
Here's worse! If Rafale F4.1 upgrade campaign has started, the F4.2 will follow soon after... With 3rd gen QWIP...

CONCLUSION :
Rafale is often misunderstood, likely because a LOT of stuff is lost in translation and 99% not translated at all, then, the oversecretive tendencies of both the French military and Dassault don't help, but, when you read anything related for long, added with some confidences, Any way, the NATO's report (in pdf) about the 2011 campaign in Libya makes clear that there is no way a 4.5 gen aircraft can be left unharmed in such conditions, even worse : with help of both Russia and Serbia, air defences had been designed as a death trap for F-117, B-2 and F-22... Remember that during NATO drills vs. S-300, the only aircraft left unharmed was Rafale.

Other very interesting point : although nobody ordered such a config, room and payload would allow 6 hardpoints with two AAMs on each side of the pylon, and still be provision for a TER with 3 more, thus, the 2 central belly ones would not allow two Meteor racks, only 1 Meteor and 1 MICA. The two lateral belly (under engines) and the two outer-wing ones each allow one Meteor, the 2 wingtips are MICA-OK.
There is "just" potential to carry... 39 Meteor BVRAAMs and 9 MICA-NG at once.
There'd also be potential to carry 18 CBU-97/105... enough to demolish up to 18 40-strong tanks battalions...
Would Ukraine had 6 squadrons, the Russian invaders would end with no vehicles within 24h.
Would Taiwan replace its Mirage-2000s and all F-16s, including all those on order, China's reunification may happen, but not the way the CCP expects: the worst nightmare of any dictatorship may happen: democracy !


Wasn't UAE granted access to F-35? Greece can get F-35 too... F-35 is NOT fit to replace F-16, says gen C.Q. Brown, head of USAF...

Cheaper to maintain? YES! Much cheaper, thanks to much better engines.
Without Rafale, F-35 would be impossible because CATIA. Dassault is way more accustomed than Lockheed at making efficient jet fighter, If by complexity, you mean creating a gas factory that fails on everything, yup, F-35 is more complex... About "capable", F-35's ONLY ADIZ interception 7 years after its introduction was a Tu-95

Don't expect a lot more, it has been banned from supersonic flight except in case of emergency

Greece and UAE are eligible for F-35... Croatia likely too, but 12 Rafales is already an enormous effort for them, at the same time, it's probably the only thing as cheap to operate as a MiG-21...

Gripen, not Grippen. With BAe, the most crooked defence contractor on Earth, in charge of selling both, with a special law protecting them as long as they don't pay bribes in the UK, [near] ALL Gripen and Typhoon exports are tainted with bribery/kickback scandals
Since the 1998 Taiwan frigate scandal, a law has been voted that makes judges able to investigate despite stuff is classified "Secret Défense". French defence contractors can even give a crate of Champagne without ending with 3 judges on their tails! Even inviting to restaurants is under watch... Had bribes been paid, Brazil would never had bought Gripen-E which is less capable than a Mirage-2000 and Parrikar would have ordered the 270 Rafales India BADLY needs...

One thing for sure, they requested upgrades to push their ageing 2nd hand numerous Mirage-III/5 as 4.5th gen, as well as AIP upgrades to the Agosta-class submarines... Well, not a very clever idea to request such stuff with massive anti-French rallies in the country at the same time. Guess why Pak was rebuked?

Except that the LM tech is obsolete! Rafale F4 introduces 3rd gen stealth, LM is still with 1st gen at recoating their F-35 for 28 hours per fight hour! They're not even able to come with a radar transparent polymer to protect the coating

Does he stills spell Rafale as "Rafael" ????
These guys at LM's sales dept are truly stunning! They would be able to sell shoes, gloves and trousers to someone with tetra-amelia syndrome but LM engineers are just into R&D and needed a Soviet mathematician works and a 1945 Nazi proto-stealth coating to be improved for their Have-Blue then F-117.
Sengupta has serious issues at understanding that researchers at ONERA's DEMR first came with the 2nd gen stealth in the early 90's which was first used on the Lafayette-class frigates (1996) then the Rafale (2003), then created what is probably the most impressive radar on Earth, the NOSTRADAMUS, then came near immediately with a 3rd gen stealth making ALL radars totally useless in 2006. Actually, in his scientific paper, DEMR's head estimated that first applications would come around 2020, and it'd take about 15 years to integrate into a jet fighter... The DEMR director of research was right : the M51.3 SLBM is here since June 2020, and Rafale F4 upgrade campaign started in2022, deliveries of new aircraft at the F4 standard expected for 2023.
Unfortunately, the paper wasn't retained when ONERA changed its website but copies are still available and I have one, thus, don't ask me to translate a scientific paper about plasmas, EM, radars etc in English, then if you find s.o. able to translate this stuff far beyond Sengupta's understanding, then, make yourself no illusions, the classified parts have never went public...

I don't understand many of the points but the few that I did are simply educational. Merci beaucoup !

 

[PradoTLC]

Israel is also the first to use the F-35 in combat

against mickey mouse a military .. yes

That's why only Israel has permission to do that.

nope.

it is bcos of your jewish lobby in USA

UK also uses F-35 , wtih a far more advance aviation industry.. you think you can contribute more than them,?

 

[Beny Karachun]

nope.

it is bcos of your jewish lobby in USA

UK also uses F-35 , wtih a far more advance aviation industry.. you think you can contribute more than them,?

Lol, the only thing the UK does better than Israel is build complete aircraft hulls.

Israeli radars, electronic warfare, DIRCM, targeting pods and other avionics are top notch.
Israeli bombs and missiles are top notch.

Israel buys 0 military equipment from the UK, however the UK buys Israeli military equipment.


Israel has far more experience and far more opportunities to test its aircraft than the UK does.

 

[waz]

No, Sweden did not offer to sell the Gripen. Musharraf stated during a visit that Pakistan was interested, but was told that it was out of the question.
Sweden allowed Pakistan to buy EriEye since that has a different classification.

Sweden won't sell Gripen fighter planes to Pak

”There is no question of selling them weapons or anything directly related to weapons," Swedish Foreign Minister Laila Freivalds said after her talks with visiting Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf in Stockholm on Tuesday.


It might be the Czech Gripens, if they buy the F-35.

Yes that's correct, Gripen was denied but the AWACS was approved and since then the PAF purchased more and has 7 such aircraft equipped.

 

[waz]

Lol, the only thing the UK does better than Israel is build complete aircraft hulls.

Israeli radars, electronic warfare, DIRCM, targeting pods and other avionics are top notch.
Israeli bombs and missiles are top notch.

Israel buys 0 military equipment from the UK, however the UK buys Israeli military equipment.


Israel has far more experience and far more opportunities to test its aircraft than the UK does.

You guys cannot build your own engine....Yes the other stuff you do is very good but our AESA radars e.g. AESA ECRS Mk2 radar, EW suites are incredibly advanced who do you think provides for the F-35, it's the AN/ASQ-239! We are world class.
We also cracked the software codes of the F-35 when we were denied by the US.

 

[Beny Karachun]

You guys cannot build your own engine....Yes the other stuff you do is very good but our AESA radars e.g. AESA ECRS Mk2 radar, EW suites are incredibly advanced who do you think provides for the F-35, it's the AN/ASQ-239! We are world class.
We also cracked the software codes of the F-35 when we were denied by the US.

Yeah, as I said, we don't build complete aircraft. Israel's experience in upgrading aircraft was always related to munitions, modifications to the hull and avionics. The US loved our upgrades.

Israel will be working on a 2 seater version of the F-35.

F-35I don't use British EW. Seems like Israel believes its own systems are better.

Even the UK buys Israeli EW:

You are being redirected...

elbitsystems.com

I am not here to argue whether the British or Israeli avionics are better, I am saying that Israel had a history of upgrading American aircraft at virtually 0 costs, that's why only Israel has access to the F-35s subsystems.

 

[Hydration]

Yeah, as I said, we don't build complete aircraft. Israel's experience in upgrading aircraft was always related to munitions, modifications to the hull and avionics. The US loved our upgrades.

Israel will be working on a 2 seater version of the F-35.

F-35I don't use British EW. Seems like Israel believes its own systems are better.

Even the UK buys Israeli EW:

You are being redirected...

elbitsystems.com

I am not here to argue whether the British or Israeli avionics are better, I am saying that Israel had a history of upgrading American aircraft at virtually 0 costs, that's why only Israel has access to the F-35s subsystems.

Cheaper not more advanced

 

[Beny Karachun]

Cheaper not more advanced

Are you talking about the British EW suite? Lol. F-35s arrive here with them intact. We remove them and install ours.

Israel doesn't care about the money, the US mostly pays for the F-35s.

 

[PradoTLC]

Lol, the only thing the UK does better than Israel is build complete aircraft hulls.

Israeli radars, electronic warfare, DIRCM, targeting pods and other avionics are top notch.
Israeli bombs and missiles are top notch.

Israel buys 0 military equipment from the UK, however the UK buys Israeli military equipment.


Israel has far more experience and far more opportunities to test its aircraft than the UK does.

i stop reading when you said your bombs are top notch.. Remind us how did the IAF miss with your spice bombs... or Israeli EW equipment interfered with the Su-30s radar system...just LOL X 100

makes only hull ?.... just lol x 200.. next time if you ever get to fly see just the engines of the plane and think who makes RR engines...

perhaps you dont know history but england was making Spitfire planes in WW11 while your people were on BBQ Spit in some german camp...