Why is Russia great at invention, but stinks at innovation?

[DejanSRB]

@gambit

Just take a look of Russian contribution to humankind in civil sector. Put aside military complex.
You know, Russia is not only USSR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Russian_innovation

Zvorkin - one of the "fathers" of TV. (19th century). Education in Russian Empire.
Popov - one of "fathers"of radio. (19th century). Education in Russian Empire.
Mendeleev - father of modern chemistry. (19th century). Education in Russian Empire.
Franz San Galli - radiator (19th century, he emigrated from Prussia)
Pavel Yablockov - Transformer (19th century). Educated in Russian Empire.
and many more.

To restricted Russia only as USSR. And to restricted their contribution to mankind (which only few countries can rivaled) only to military sector is big mistake and it's a sin. And a sign of ignorance.

But I agree partly with you. If somehow, Russian remained monarchy (at least parlamentary). I think that, Russians today would be on the same level of income as at least Central Europe, maybe W. Europe too).

 

[beijingwalker]

Any of those things benefits the people ? None of them.

The main goal of any technology is to make people's lives easier, more bearable, and more enjoyable. You praise weapons because you are essentially immature about understanding technology and their applications.

What is it that the microwave oven COULD NOT have come from the Soviet Union or any other communist country ?

Note I said 'could not'. To say 'could not' implies there is an impenetrable barrier and that barrier is -- communism.

- Were the principles of microwave radiation and behaviors unknown in Russia ?

- Was metallurgy unknown ?

- Was materials science unknown ?

- Was electronics unknown ?

Russians made satellites, aircrafts, ships, and tanks, so that means they know ALL of the items above. But then why COULD NOT the microwave oven came from Russia ?

Because the microwave oven is a consumer device that make lives more convenient, even if just a little. Whoever wants to make people's lives more convenient naturally want to be compensated for it -- capitalism.

Take the irrational consumer desire to see their food inside the oven, for example. Why do you want ( not need ) to see your food cooking inside the microwave oven ? But the capitalist's job is not to question why the people want something. His job is to provide the solution(s) for what the consumers want.

Microwave radiation could penetrate glass, so an all glass solution is not practical. So what is the solution to that irrationality and ended up making the capitalist a lot of money ?

Do you see the mesh screen inside the glass door ? The holes are smaller than the operating freq so no signals could escape.

You think am making this up ?

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Waves/mwoven.html

Communism stifles imagination, which in turn suppresses innovation, except for the few cases where creators are allowed to intellectually flourish and their efforts rewarded. Where were those exceptions ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_city

Soviet creators were awarded only if their creations were for military usages. It is not that none of them can figure out how to make the microwave oven door transparent and still contain microwave radiation. But the Soviet political and economic system would not allowed Russians to exercise their intellect other than where the government directed them.

So stop blaming allegedly 'theft' by the West. Whatever the West produces, the Soviets could acquire them and reproduce. In other words, stole them from us. But then, why should you steal the microwave oven when you know that you cannot make any money with it -- as in mass production -- back home ? The result is that Soviet/Russian lives are far less convenient than Western peoples. When I played tourist in East Germany when it existed, and yes I am that old, my Levi jean would attract attention from both men and women. Men wanted to buy it to impress women, and women want me because they know I have more money than most East German men. The political and economic system suppresses creativity and discourages rewards to the point that you cannot produce desirable clothing, and you want to blame the West for 'stealing' your ideas ?

Give us a break...

Russia is not communism, China is. I guess most microwaves are made in China.

 

[gambit]

Russia is not communism, China is. I guess most microwaves are made in China.

You do not understand, and from what I read, looks like you NEVER will.

The microwave oven did not came from China because, just like the Soviet Union, it COULD NOT come from China. By that, I mean the IDEA of the microwave oven, not the final product. Once the concept is proved you can have anyone or any country do the mass production, but the IDEA of it still came from you.

 

[gambit]

To restricted Russia only as USSR. And to restricted their contribution to mankind (which only few countries can rivaled) only to military sector is big mistake and it's a sin. And a sign of ignorance.

No, it is not. And I am fully aware of Russia as before and after the Soviet Union.

But companion to the point I made in post 14 is that we can only relate to the era we are borne and grew up in. I cannot relate to Thomas Edison or Nikola Tesla even though we live in the results of their genius. On the other hand, even though I am 54 yrs old, I can definitely relate to Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook, Jeff Bezos of Amazon, or Steve Jobs of Apple.

Essentially, how we judge a country, and for better or worse a people, is highly influenced on how much we benefited from their intellectual products, and those products need not be in the 'hard sciences'. Why do you think when we think of ballet, the Bolshoi Ballet came to the fore ? At one point in the hard sciences' history, if you want to learn and contribute to Chemistry, you had to know German, but how much of that is relevant today ? Some products and traits have proven to be enduring, like vodka to Russia, paella to Spain, precision to Germany, or dynamism to America.

But to return to science and technology, like it or not, the best that we can go back in time is WW II regarding how to judge a country in scientific contributions, and from that point on, Russia under the Soviets have not been a significant contributor. Sure, as an Air Force guy, I will admit that Russia under the Soviets produced amazing aerodynamicists. None superior. Equals -- rare. But none superior. But where are the world class Soviet airliners ? Do you see the difference between theory, application, and product ?

People complained/criticized that Western media portrayed Soviets/Russians in one dimension. That criticism is truly ignorant. The Soviet system suppressed individuality, so how can Western media go any other direction ? On the other hand, Americans are portrayed in myriad ways, from crazy to genius to all degrees in the middle. Our food is bad and good. Some say we have no culture but many say we do. And thru all this, Americans laughed it off and continues to product life altering products -- like the microwave oven or the Internet. And please do not say a Brit 'invented' the Internet. I will embarrass you if you do.

As for the ignoramus who said the US 'stole' ideas from Russia, you cannot steal ideas. You can steal products, but not ideas. Once you publish your idea, it is free for everyone to apply as they see fit, and if they apply the idea better than you, too bad for you. A person's genius lies not in how many original ideas he can come up with, but EQUALLY in how he can make practical any idea that he came across. After all, is not adaptation and application requires intellect ?

I have always exaggerated that 'communism make people stupid'. An exaggeration needs a foundation to grow. So from that perspective, Russians have no one but themselves to blame.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Russia is quite successful Nation of world

Their defence products are used world wide

> Massive usage of fighter Jets
> Engines and spareparts used world wide
> Various SAM system used world wide
> Klashinokov one of the most successful Assault rifle and most used rifle world wide
> Well known producer of Ships
> Well known producer for Submarines

Contribution to Humanity:
> First people in Space
> First Sattelite
> First Successful animal launch
> First Nation to take Humanity to Planet Venus
> Extensive experience in Petro chemical sector and Energy sector and they help establish
projects world wide
> Russians also did land a none human on Moon LUNA 9 frist landed and captured images from moon

If Hollywood does not make a movie about Russians it does not mean they have not contributed to Science / Technology and Research

The idea of VERTICAL lander , guess Russians were doing it back in the day

 

[Clutch]

It all because of the Vokda... they discover the equation in a drunken stuper... then forget to follow up because the Western Capitalist run off with the find to market the product of the equation.

 

[beijingwalker]

You do not understand, and from what I read, looks like you NEVER will.

The microwave oven did not came from China because, just like the Soviet Union, it COULD NOT come from China. By that, I mean the IDEA of the microwave oven, not the final product. Once the concept is proved you can have anyone or any country do the mass production, but the IDEA of it still came from you.

Wrong, the idea is one thing, but it's all about who makes it. That means the success is on who sells it.

 

[gambit]

Wrong, the idea is one thing, but it's all about who makes it. That means the success is on who sells it.

Aahh...That means China 'invented' the cell phone, the personal computer, etc...etc...

Talk about history revisionism...

 

[beijingwalker]

Aahh...That means China 'invented' the cell phone, the personal computer, etc...etc...

Talk about history revisionism...

China started going on that path barely 30 years ago we are still doing the catch up work but we do it fast. Inventions are just the first step, how to make the inventions serve the general public and make money for you is the end result. If you only have ideas but no products ,you can work in a company whose boss is the person who makes your ideas profitable.

US was first built up on taking foreign ideas and inventions and mass making product based on those ideas and inventions, basically US was built up on manufacturing, China now is repeating the same way, if US loses its manufacturing ability , the country will go nowhere in the future.

 

[gambit]

China started going on that path barely 30 years ago we are still doing the catch up work but we do it fast. Inventions are just the first step, how to make the inventions serve the general public and make money for you is the end result. If you only have ideas but no products ,you can work in a company whose boss is the person who makes your ideas profitable.

US was first built up on taking foreign ideas and inventions and mass making product based on those ideas and inventions, basically US was built up on manufacturing, China now is repeating the same way, if US loses its manufacturing ability , the country will go nowhere in the future.

Only on PDF, and am sure on Chinese forums, where China MUST be credited with a product simply because China can mass produce said product.