Why is Pakistan not purchasing the Rafale?

[DANGER-ZONE]

Rafale is a good option for future, our focus is on JF-17 (+ future derivatives) and FC-20. And ofcourse there's the third new design, the F-16CD.

Its not in our interest to induct too many new platforms at the same time.

i think ur from air force???
do u think just three types of aircraft f16,jf-17 and j-10 r enough for hundereds of different operations..what for marine ??
mirage3 rose upgrade? we hav to fly 3rd generation aircraft in such advance inviroment?
look at israeal such a small country havin mighty airforce.and our close opponent india.or iff usa attacks us then,b/c hes creazy?
then,don't u think we should b prepared for those things.
i dont think we r in good position havin just those 3 typs.

 

[mean_bird]

look at israeal such a small country havin mighty airforce.and our close opponent india.or iff usa attacks us then,b/c hes creazy?

If you look at the GDP and foreign reserves of these countries, you will have your answer.

And NO, I do not think Pakistan should go for Rafale. For $700m that we spent "by obtaining a loan", I think 42 JF-17 are better than 7 Rafales.

The one compromise between the two extreme should be to obtain some of the tried and tested equipment (subject to availability) from the Rafale (or similar equipment elsewhere) and use it on the JF-17, and I think that is the plane. I hope that it gets completed soon and for the better.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Thanks for providing all that info and those pics, Rafale is an impressive aeroplane. But the answer to your question is very simple. Apart from the money issue as above posters mentioned, there is this:

j-10 hav a long way to go,not fully developd while rafale is a complete aircraft.paying few now and later on long term lease,dats how we can get them.im sure that french would not take much time as usa is taking on f16 blk52 delivery.

 

[hj786]

j-10 hav a long way to go,not fully developd while rafale is a complete aircraft.paying few now and later on long term lease,dats how we can get them.im sure that french would not take much time as usa is taking on f16 blk52 delivery.

It isn't just time to build Rafale, it takes time to deliver them, train pilots to fly them, train engineers to fix and maintain them, and most important: many many years to pay back the loans for them. They are extremely expensive. You know they are at least twice the price of the J-10? Seriously, they cost too much money and aren't really good enough to be worth the cost compared to J-10.

 

[Arsalan]

be worth the cost compared to J-10.

very true, why not get five JF17 in price of one rafale!
and by investing all these billions of dollars in JF project we can take it a large way forward!!
and why only JF, why not get two J10 for one rafale! bith these planes will be quite comparable!!

regards!

 

[Enigma SIG]

im sure that french would not take much time as usa is taking on f16 blk52 delivery.

they wouldn't; but then america can pressurize france into blocking the sale

 

[Keysersoze]

they wouldn't; but then america can pressurize france into blocking the sale

I would venture that you don't know much about the French.....They are a law unto themselves

 

[A1Kaid]

i think ur from air force???

No he's not from the Air Force "he's from" the Air Port...

I could be wrong.


About your inquiry, as others have said it is too expensive.

Unless France could offer us a reasonable and suitable payment-plan I don't see Pakistan acquiring this aircraft in the near future.

 

[Sargodhian_Eagle]

I hv following statatics in my mind which may be wrong

Rafale
Price: 80 M$
Hard Points: 12
Engines:2
Operators: French Air Force (only)
Role: Air superiorety
Used in Combat: Not yet

F-16C/D
Price: 40 M $
Hard points: 11
Engines:1
Operators: 25 Nations
Role : Multi-Role
Used in Combat: Yes

Frm above statatics, I hv extracted that we can get 22 hard points, two engines in two air frames, no extra pilot training cost in 80 m $ if we purchase F-16C/D

If we choose Rafale we will get only 12 hard points, two engines in 1 airframe, extra pilot training cost in 80 M $

 

[maverick2009]

Rafale is omni role fighter its biggest edge over other similar generation fighters is its spectra attack suite which has stealth features.

If anthing its Air superiority ability is currently at best on par to SU30MKI and inferior to Typhoon.

However this will change wen Rafale receives the new RB AESA RADAR and matching metore BVR missle some time in 2012.

Then the Rafale will truely be the match of Typhoon and second only to
JSF/F22...

I am absolutely certain that with the history of the Mirage in PAF if it was not for the cost issue PAF wud have acquired 2 Sqds of this beauty.

" If anything outside of China France is easily the most reliable Arms supplier for Pakistan historically"

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

u people ar saying that we should buy 5 jf-17 or 2 j-10 insted of RAFALE.
if they r costing it so high,so there should b a reason for this.
rafale deals with most advance avionics and wepons.it can target varios object in one time like f22.while j-10 and jf-17 r not much capeable of this tecnology.

1-acuiring jf-17 insted of Rafale,doesnt look senceable to me.jf-17 is a 4th gen fighter while Rafale is near to hit the 5th gen group like ef2000.this difference looks very small and im sure PAC can make jf-17 a 4+ gen fighter but rit now there is no comparision b/w Rafale and jf-17.

2-suppose,if India gets Rafale and during war when they'll send there rafale for attack or for counter our attack.a single rafale can handle or shote down 4 to 5 jf-17 at a same time and then we will lose the cost of a single rafale in the form of 4 or 5 jf-17s.

3-after couple of years india would hav all of its air force consisting 4+ gen fighters and we????

we realy need minmum 4typs 4+ gen to counter india or specially THE BIG BOSS(ever one knows about it) in future.
1-if jf-17,inshallah jf-17 would become 4+ gen fighter soon then it will b 1st(but not now).
2-j-10 would be good 4+ gen fighter for us.it place 2nd.(not in so neer future).
3-i dont think USA will giv blk-52 to us.if it happens then it would be 3rd.
4-we need a 4th too which should be fully capable of fighting,grond attack and ship busting as well.in shortly,advance multiroll fighter.

as i think 4th place is for Rafale,ef 2000,su-35,su-32 or mig35.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Rafale is omni role fighter its biggest edge over other similar generation fighters is its spectra attack suite which has stealth features.

If anthing its Air superiority ability is currently at best on par to SU30MKI and inferior to Typhoon.

However this will change wen Rafale receives the new RB AESA RADAR and matching metore BVR missle some time in 2012.

Then the Rafale will truely be the match of Typhoon and second only to
JSF/F22...

I am absolutely certain that with the history of the Mirage in PAF if it was not for the cost issue PAF wud have acquired 2 Sqds of this beauty.

" If anything outside of China France is easily the most reliable Arms supplier for Pakistan historically"

ya thas wat im trying to say.there is no need to beg countries like USA for these things,go fore the countries like GREAT CHINA AND FRANCE which they dont only offers for good things but show respect too.if PAF take intrust in rafale,im sure France would hit a suitable deal for pakistan,b/c they always offers us their superior tecnologies and tried to make pakistan their permanent customer.

Originally Posted by Imran2006g
they wouldn't; but then america can pressurize france into blocking the sale
abay bhai france chamcha nahin hai amrica ka.
thats y they offered us nuclear power tecnology.

 

[Arsalan]

u people ar saying that we should buy 5 jf-17 or 2 j-10 insted of RAFALE.
if they r costing it so high,so there should b a reason for this.
rafale deals with most advance avionics and wepons.it can target varios object in one time like f22.while j-10 and jf-17 r not much capeable of this tecnology.

1-acuiring jf-17 insted of Rafale,doesnt look senceable to me.jf-17 is a 4th gen fighter while Rafale is near to hit the 5th gen group like ef2000.this difference looks very small and im sure PAC can make jf-17 a 4+ gen fighter but rit now there is no comparision b/w Rafale and jf-17.

2-suppose,if India gets Rafale and during war when they'll send there rafale for attack or for counter our attack.a single rafale can handle or shote down 4 to 5 jf-17 at a same time and then we will lose the cost of a single rafale in the form of 4 or 5 jf-17s.

3-after couple of years india would hav all of its air force consisting 4+ gen fighters and we????

we realy need minmum 4typs 4+ gen to counter india or specially THE BIG BOSS(ever one knows about it) in future.
1-if jf-17,inshallah jf-17 would become 4+ gen fighter soon then it will b 1st(but not now).
2-j-10 would be good 4+ gen fighter for us.it place 2nd.(not in so neer future).
3-i dont think USA will giv blk-52 to us.if it happens then it would be 3rd.
4-we need a 4th too which should be fully capable of fighting,grond attack and ship busting as well.in shortly,advance multiroll fighter.

as i think 4th place is for Rafale,ef 2000,su-35,su-32 or mig35.

i guess you got me wrong some where!
i do not mean to say that 5 JF17 will be able to perform as good as 1 rafale! if it was so i would have like to get 100+ spitfire to match rafale

i very much liked one of your point where you stated that we do need 4 generation fighters for normal task, in other words it could be said that we will need a relatively cheap plane to fill in the quantity and perform normal tasks and a small number of high tech fighter, perhaps two or three squadrons!
i totally agree with this point and i think no one at this forum with differ from me!
also it is true that the F16 block 52 are the best option, they are cheap, war proven and we have years of experience and infra structure facilities to handle them. the bitter fact is that we are/cannot be sure of whether we will get them!
but my friend, the rafale!! it seems to be way out of our purchasing power! the friendship is for money dear , if we have this amount in our pocket we can surely explore the russian marlet, chines can support us there! this will be a cheap market with equally good specs!
no second thought on rafale standing in the top league but there are many cheap option standing there with it!!

i hope i have made you understand my opinion!
regards!

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

the friendship is for money dear , if we have this amount in our pocket we can surely explore the russian marlet, chines can support us there! this will be a cheap market with equally good specs!


ya thats tru man.
and i think russian hav oppened thir door for wepon sales for us after a long time.is it tru?im very hungry to see russian aircraft manuver live,specially six wings.tell me one thig more that russies allowed us for the sale of thrust vectoring engine for jf-17??

im realy in favour for buying russian aircraft.they rocks(not old,new ones only)

 

[Enigma SIG]

I would venture that you don't know much about the French.....They are a law unto themselves

Umm... forgive my lack of knowledge would you care to elaborate sir...?

@danger-zone
sir jee ye to dekhna hai k nuclear technology milti hai ya kuch aur

agosta subs was a nice project for the naval dockyards. dont know if the french really will sell us the rafale if PAF wants them (highly unlikely because of price tag); as it will almost balance the airpower b/w PAF and IAF...