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Why is Pakistan not purchasing the Rafale?

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this is very odd...

every1 here claims russian hardware is crap and has lots of maintenence/spares issues and a low mean time before overhaul. yet every1 wants russian stuff like tvc for engines.

and pakistan cant afford rafael it costs 80 million for 1 plane not to mention expensive aam

and new avionics for jf-17 will also be expensive they will cost almost more than the entire a/c.

WHO SAID THAT RUSSIAN AIRCRAFTS ARE CRAP,IF RUSSIANS R MAKING JUST JUNK THEN THE BIGGEST CUTOMER OF RUSSIAN PRODUCTS IS CHINA AND WE BUY FROM CHINA.:what:
AND THATS HOW U R SAYING CHINA MILITARY JUNK TOO.
I DONT THINK THAT RUSSIAN PRODUCTS R CRAP.THERE IS AN ISSUE FOR HIGH MAINTANENCE OF AIRCRAFTS BUT RUSSIAN AIRCRAFTS ARE ROCKING MACHINES.EXAMPLE SU-30MKI UN BEATABLE AIRCRAFT.
AND IF THE RUSSIANS R MAKING CRAP THEN HOW THOSE BIG AIRCRAFT CAN PERFORM UNBELIVABLE MANUVERS.
 

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I SAY THAT RUSSIAN AIRCRAFTS ARE CRAP...!!!
 
I SAY THAT RUSSIAN AIRCRAFTS ARE CRAP...!!!

What about French aircraft? Do you think PAF should have spent their J-10, F-16C/D and F-16AM/BM upgrade money on Rafale instead?
 
I SAY THAT RUSSIAN AIRCRAFTS ARE CRAP...!!!

sir can you please explain on what grounds you say so! i hope this would be informative!!

regards!
 
EXAMPLE SU-30MKI UN BEATABLE AIRCRAFT.

u cannot be from pakistan. where are u from?:what:

sir can you please explain on what grounds you say so! i hope this would be informative!!

regards!

their service cost is high, mantainance cost is high, some are coffins like mig21. although the indian su30 crashed after 12 years.
Delays in spares from Russia.

US jets r better. (i think)

But the russians gave india plenty of access to sensitive technologies
 
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u cannot be from pakistan. where are u from?:what:



their service cost is high, mantainance cost is high, some are coffins like mig21. although the indian su30 crashed after 12 years.
Delays in spares from Russia.

US jets r better. (i think)

But the russians gave india plenty of access to sensitive technologies

NAAAH..IM TRULY A PAKISTANI,AND I DONT LIKE U GUYS(INDIANS) :cheesy:
BUT I LOVE THIS MACHINE SU-30MKI AND OTHER SIX-WING JETS:smitten:
 
I SAY THAT RUSSIAN AIRCRAFTS ARE CRAP...!!!

YEAH..SIR PLZ XPLAIN IT:enjoy:
AND ALSO PUT UR LIGHT ON THOSE CRAZY COUNTRIES WHICH R USING RUSSIAN CRAP.:coffee:
MERITS AND DE-MARITS T:eek::eek:
 
I DONT LIKE U GUYS(INDIANS) :cheesy:

dont be so sad Cockpuncher,its just in case of WAR.:enjoy:
 
their service cost is high, mantainance cost is high, some are coffins like mig21. although the indian su30 crashed after 12 years.
Delays in spares from Russia.

US jets r better. (i think)

But the russians gave india plenty of access to sensitive technologies

the russians hvae believed in the power of numerical superiority...a tried and tested tactic since their second WW encounters.We indians follow the same tactic and our C&C is 'believed' to be based on the russian one(it caused great worry in the military quarters when the Iraqi army...another army based on the soviet model crumbled in the gulf war)
so the russian jets have always been cheap and simpler...yet they achieve their objective.There is a downside that you have rightfully listed.
the mig-25 was dreaded and was fast...the west feared it and thought that the soviets have mastered some new tech....when they ripped open the iraqi mig-25s they found that it had circuits based on vacuum tubes!(vacuum tubes have more em thermal tolerance)
 
What about French aircraft? Do you think PAF should have spent their J-10, F-16C/D and F-16AM/BM upgrade money on Rafale instead?
At the risk of being accused of advocating buying American because I am an American, I do not think that buying the Rafale would be a wise decision. Not because the Rafale is a bad design but because Pakistan has to consider the familiarity factor, meaning that how long has Pakistan been flying the F-16? How comfortable are Pakistani pilots with the F-16? Every new aircraft design will have different flight characteristics and exhibit new behaviors that will require pilots to adjust. Will the new aircraft offer new capabilities and improve upon current ones to justify the changes. What about maintenance? Can the ground crews adapt to the new aircrafts in terms of ease of maintenance? These are not trivial matters and once the money spent, Pakistan cannot ask for refunds.
 
At the risk of being accused of advocating buying American because I am an American, I do not think that buying the Rafale would be a wise decision. Not because the Rafale is a bad design but because Pakistan has to consider the familiarity factor, meaning that how long has Pakistan been flying the F-16? How comfortable are Pakistani pilots with the F-16? Every new aircraft design will have different flight characteristics and exhibit new behaviors that will require pilots to adjust. Will the new aircraft offer new capabilities and improve upon current ones to justify the changes. What about maintenance? Can the ground crews adapt to the new aircrafts in terms of ease of maintenance? These are not trivial matters and once the money spent, Pakistan cannot ask for refunds.


very true! the PAF pilots are fimiliar with the F16. buying a new plane and that too in such limited numbers may prove to be the wrong bet for pakistan!
a new platform will only suit and be easier to adopt when conducted in large numbers like JF17, and the indian MRCA!!

regards!
 
sir can you please explain on what grounds you say so! i hope this would be informative!!
Yes...I will...Below...
the russians hvae believed in the power of numerical superiority...a tried and tested tactic since their second WW encounters.We indians follow the same tactic and our C&C is 'believed' to be based on the russian one(it caused great worry in the military quarters when the Iraqi army...another army based on the soviet model crumbled in the gulf war)
so the russian jets have always been cheap and simpler...yet they achieve their objective.There is a downside that you have rightfully listed.
the mig-25 was dreaded and was fast...the west feared it and thought that the soviets have mastered some new tech....when they ripped open the iraqi mig-25s they found that it had circuits based on vacuum tubes!(vacuum tubes have more em thermal tolerance)
Not Iraqi MIG-25s but a Soviet MIG-25...

Viktor Belenko - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
His name became known worldwide on September 6, 1976, when he successfully defected to the West, flying his Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25 "Foxbat" jet fighter to Hakodate, Japan. This was the first time that Western experts were able to get a close look at the aircraft, and it revealed many secrets and surprises.
Here is an excellent book, if you can find one...

Amazon.com: Mig Pilot: The Final Escape of Lt. Belenko: John Barron: Books
Basically...We had the Japanese held on to the MIG based upon every excuse they can think up while we disassembled the aircraft bolt by bolt and took who knows how many photos before we allowed the Soviets to ship the aircrafts back in crates.

Belenko's defection and the examination of the MIG-25 gave US valuable insights on how Soviet designers operate under very resource and technological limiting conditions. I may take gratuitous jabs at Soviet/Russian aircrafts but the truth cannot be dismissed -- that based upon how much the Soviets are behind the West in terms of technology, calling Soviet-Russian aircrafts, even in jest, as 'junk', the insults are not that far from fact.

We learned from Belenko that the MIG-25 cannot exceed 5g turns and that if both engines are pushed to Mach, both engines must be replaced upon landing. The engine cores would be trashed. We learned that the Foxbat's combat range is so limited that once the pilot fired his missiles, he must return to base. No fuel for air combat maneuvers (ACM).

While we DO NOT believe that the limitations and flaws in the MIG-25 will inevitably be with later Soviet aircrafts, economics and technological advantages the West enjoy and have been all this time will continue to place Western designs at least one generation ahead of Russian designs.

Nellis AFB Threat Training Facility - MiGs!!! | Parrothead Jeff

We have SU-27s we bought from former Soviet satellites as Cold War trophies. When these former Soviet puppets became freed they need hard cash to sustain their economies, so they called US and ask if we would like to go shopping. We ended up with tanks, avionics, aircrafts, missiles, and assorted junks, even some nuclear weapons related items. I have taken apart Soviet era avionics and am not impressed with the quality of manufacture. Whatever the Russians claim today about their junks, I chop off at least %10 of specs and that is for allowing progress under a freer system.
 
Nice video!
 
I SAY THAT RUSSIAN AIRCRAFTS ARE CRAP...!!!

:azn: hmm. mig 21 is back bone of india and Mig 21 derived F7 is back bone of Pakistan and China (for Now).. and its back bone or only bone for some Air forces..

I agree Russians have poor after sales service records... what to do they faced worst financial crisis in 90s and lost all reputations..

A crash should not make a plane crappy. Airbus A330 crashed this week that doesnt mean all Airbus planes are crappy.. even Chinese J10 crashed .. do you think its crapp...no its not. ..

Cheap is not always crap... but what you pay is what you get...
 
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