Why is Pakistan afraid of international perception when testing its ICBM?

[Bhairava]

India got the cryogenic engine tech from Russia, so there's no harm in admitting that Pakistan would use Chinese help.

No it did not.

We got 6 off-the-shelf engines in the 90s not the technology. America made sure of that.

If we had got the technology we would not have seen our rocket fail for the same reason.

 

[Icarus]

who else were there to fight apart from Hindus when the invasion took place? give you a clue.. one who fought still remained a hindu..

Not really, we fought. Were never conquered, retained our statehood for much of the Sub-Continent's history. Converted to Islam about 500 years ago as a result of missionaries and saints that preached in our area.

Signed:
The Sethis.

 

[JanjaWeed]

Not really, we fought. Were never conquered, retained our statehood for much of the Sub-Continent's history. Converted to Islam about 500 years ago as a result of missionaries and saints that preached in our area.

Signed:
The Sethis.

I'l take that 'one who fought remained hindu' thing back. Thanks for correcting me.

 

[Manas]

India got the cryogenic engine tech from Russia, so there's no harm in admitting that Pakistan would use Chinese help.

We got cryogenic engine from not the tech due to US pressure. We still in experiment phase with own cryogenic engine . Had we got the tech from Russia 20 years ago ,we would have launching < 5 Ton GSLV by now .

Agni -5 doesn't use cryogenic engine .

 

[Bhairava]

Selective Disinformation? An originally Chinese trait, adopted by Pakistan and employed to great effect, case in point 1998 Nuclear Tests. That really gave the international community something to talk about!

There is nothing selective dis-info in that. Asking China to launch a satellite while you have the technology is also selective disinformation ?

 

[Icarus]

There is nothing selective dis-info in that. Asking China to launch a satellite while you have the technology is also selective disinformation ?

Technology immature, don't want it crashing all over the launch pad, say it doesn't exist.

 

[Bhairava]

Technology immature, don't want it crashing all over the launch pad, say it doesn't exist.

How will you (SUPARCO) know the technology has matured without even trying to launch one satellite ?

Sure one satellite may crash, two may crash ...that is nothing out of the ordinary..all space faring nations have had their bunch of failures. But that is how you learn. That is how maturity or immaturity is measured in real terms.

 

[LeGenD]

The geopolitical situation of Pakistan is vastly different from that of India.

India is an Asian giant and has an agenda which co-aligns with that of USA vis-a-vis China at least. The planned encirclement of China by USA cannot be completed by leaving India out of the equation. Therefore, USA will welcome Indian moves aimed at containing China or at least putting pressure on her.

In case of Pakistan, circumstances are different. Here are some issues:

1. The Israeli-US nexus:

This is a major issue. Pakistan does not recognizes Israel and is expected to support enemies of Israel in case of hostilities. If Pakistan develops an ICBM, both Israel and USA will percieve this a grave threat to their interests in Asia. In contrast, India have decent relationship with Israel.

2. Insufficient justification:

It will be difficult for Pakistan to justify its position on ICBM. Whom Pakistan regards as enemy besides India when entire world knows that Pakistani threat perception is mainly limited to India?

Even China may find it difficult to defend the position of Pakistan in this regard. In fact, this will be a new dimension for China to cope with.

3. Economic problems and vulnerability to sanctions:

ICBM system is very expensive to develop and maintain in comparison to existing missile systems. Also, few ICBM will not be good enough to ensure security against superpowers. Pakistani economic position is also not in good shape. Common man wants to improve his living standards in Pakistan. However, he is facing extreme economic hardships instead. And if ICBM project leads to crippling sanctions - this time Pakistan will go bust. And this can lead to severe civil unrest within Pakistan.

-------------------

I shall make one thing clear though: Pakistan does have the capability to develop an ICBM. May be not on par with those of China, USA, and Russia but comparable to India at least. Dr. Qadeer confirmed this in his interviews. However, he also confirmed that Pakistani military establishment is not showing interest in this project and has stopped it for now.

 

[Icarus]

How will you (SUPARCO) know the technology has matured without even trying to launch one satellite ?

Sure one satellite may crash, two may crash ...that is nothing out of the ordinary..all space faring nations have had their bunch of failures. But that is how you learn. That is how maturity or immaturity is measured in real terms.

The system is immature as long as the engineers say it is, meticulous work pre-production cuts problems post.
Under the present economic circumstances, we can't afford that loss in the name of research, a satellite lost represents millions of dollars and thousands of man hours in investment. Under this strained economy, that's criminal.

 

[Bhairava]

The system is immature as long as the engineers say it is, meticulous work pre-production cuts problems post.
Under the present economic circumstances, we can't afford that loss in the name of research, a satellite lost represents millions of dollars and thousands of man hours in investment. Under this strained economy, that's criminal.

Well that is the crux of the issue.

Without developing the economy there is no point in just trying to match India device for device. If you can develop that, everything else would fall in its rightful place. SLV, ICBM, International perception etc.

Also as long as the technology is immature there is no point in claiming that there is selective disinfo. Selective disinfo is what Israel does in case of its nukes or even India does in many of its missiles regarding range/tech. Yes mea culpa.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Not really, we fought. Were never conquered, retained our statehood for much of the Sub-Continent's history. Converted to Islam about 500 years ago as a result of missionaries and saints that preached in our area.

Signed:
The Sethis.

Another 2 paisa worth:
Sethis (word derives from the Sanskrit word "Sresthi" which means Shreshth) from the Khukhrain clan are from the descendents of Raja Khokard Maal, who were considered "so brave a people that Mehmood Ghaznavi while invading India was always scared of the Sethi clan and had instructed his generals not to antagonise them and keep off their territories while conducting their campaigns."

There is merit in what you say.

 

[lem34]

Although I am not a grandparent yet, please allow me to tell you a story as an elder brother at least:

==================================================

Once there was a young wolf who wanted to be the leader of the pack but was simply not big enough to challenge the current leader. So he decided to go and meet with the lion to learn something useful which could help him do that. The lion agreed to take him on the next hunt to teach him new skills.

So both the lion and the young wolf crept up to a deer in the bush. The lion asked the wolf,"Is my tail erect?" The wolf said, "Yes, Sir!". The lion asked," Are my eyes red?" "Yes". The lion asked "Are my ears up?", "Yes" came the reply. The lion said, "Now I am ready!" and with a mighty leap sprang upon the deer and captured him.

After learning this useful lesson, the young wolf went back to his pack and gathered them all around him and said, "I have come to be your leader, because I have been taught by the lion himself. Follow me and you will never want for fresh meat!" The wise leader of the pack said, "Well, that is good. Why don't you demonstrate your skills, and if you can hunt as well as you say you do, then I will step aside gladly."

The young wolf boasted, "Show me the animal to be hunted!" and the leader pointed out a water buffalo in the the savannah. Upon seeing the mighty animal he was supposed to bring down, the young wolf's heart leapt into his throat, but he had the whole tribe looking on, so he trembingly stalked the water buffalo, and then jumped upon it.

Of course, the buffalo gave him one mighty kick, flinging the poor wolf far into the bush, bruised and broken. All the pack laughed at him and went away, except a few friends, who came to look after their friend. One asked him, "Whay happened? I thought you were trained by the best!". The young wolf meekly said, "I would have killed the buffalo, except that my tail was not erect, my eyes were not red, and my ears were not up."

============================================

First moral of the story: First, get ready.
Second moral of the story: Even after you get ready, don't be over ambitious.

thank God no one listened to people like you when we embarked on becoming a nuclear power. That is all I can say to you

 

[Icarus]

Well that is the crux of the issue.

Without developing the economy there is no point in just trying to match India device for device. If you can develop that, everything else would fall in its rightful place. SLV, ICBM, International perception etc.

Also as long as the technology is immature there is no point in claiming that there is selective disinfo. Selective disinfo is what Israel does in case of its nukes or even India does in many of its missiles regarding range/tech. Yes mea culpa.

Hey, I'm only speculating. I have no concrete knowledge about the workings of SUPARCO and my views need not be endorsed by professionals.

 

[lem34]

India main zyada himmat hai?

Indians are cruising for a bruising. The difference between China and India s far greater than between Pakistan and India with China well in the ascendancy

Why do you guys want to follow India in everything ?

You Ghauri and Shaheen seem to have ranges that can hot most of India, why do you need any other missile.

India needs A5 because we need to cover whole of China.

You guys should stop wasting money and focus on education (and toilets! )



Says who ?

We want to be able to defend against any adversary in the world

Pakistan testing an ICBM would have nothing to do with India just as our test has nothing to do with Pakistan.

For starters, they would like to have the capability of hitting Israel. Accurately.

I think we can manage that mate

Pehlay aankhein laal, dum seedhi aur kaan kharey to ker lo!

Will you get up from your knees man

Strange isnt it , why isnt the same world not imposing any sanctions for Indian test , intact western media even appreciated A-5s technological achievement .

Not at all you are their proxy

 

[Desert Fox]

Agni 5 is purely meant for China, hence the international community doesn't feel threatened by this launch. Whereas if Pakistan does the same, Israel and the West would perceive that it is aimed against them and there is a possibility of terrorists getting access to such weapons.

LOL!!!!! HA HA HA HA , you indians make my stomach hurt!!!