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Why is our full history not taught to us in Pakistan Studies?

Does this look like someone who would want a mullah republic? :lol:

kodachrome-transparencies-of-mohammed-ali-jinnah-governor-general-of-pakistan-photo-shows.jpg


We were supposed to be a sophisticated 1st world country, a secular progressive democracy, a multi ethnic, multi national society with immigrants from all around the world.

The problem with you guys is you just think too small.
 
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Does this look like someone who would want a mullah republic? :lol:

kodachrome-transparencies-of-mohammed-ali-jinnah-governor-general-of-pakistan-photo-shows.jpg


We were supposed to be a sophisticated 1st world country, a secular progressive democracy, a multi ethnic, multi national society with immigrants from all around the world.

A product of his time and colonial construct called British India. Not much different from you... except he chose to change himself.
You've made him a caricature but then he didn't leave any direct legacy ... the product is representative of it's origin.

He though joined "Muslim" League... a lawyer only works for his client... in this case the client is aloof and seeking to ape the lawyer.

Go get it champ!
 
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A product of his time and colonial construct called British India. Not much different from you... except he chose to change himself.
You've made him a caricature but then he didn't leave any direct legacy ... the product is representative of it's origin.

He though joined "Muslim" League... a lawyer only works for his client... in this case the client is aloof and seeking to ape the lawyer.

Go get it champ!

You literally live in the US and are enjoying full benefits of a 1st world secular democracy. :lol:
 
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You literally live in the US and are enjoying full benefits of a 1st world secular democracy. :lol:

As opposed to what?
You will choose where I live or how I think ... wannabes peddling aspirations of western discourse.

Client states that haven't even found their feet and new and aspiring slaves all too eager to push and consume western pop culture and narrative... hook, line and sinker!
 
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As opposed to what?
You will choose where I live or how I think ... wannabes peddling aspirations of western discourse.

Client states that haven't even found their feet and new and aspiring slaves all too eager to push and consume western pop culture and narrative... hook, line and sinker!

I just find it hypocritical you want Pakistan to keep persisting with a failed experiment of basing a society on a foreign ideology who themselves have no idea what they are doing and are a bad copy of ancient Greek who's text they plagiarized. Just look at Dubai, there are more hookers there than Amsterdam now :lol: Saudi are now opening their country up too. Your Islamic state concept is a failure just admit it, Syria and Afghanistan are perfect examples. It's never worked, just like communism.

Also just to be clear, there is a distinction here from an Islamic country and Islam the religion. This is purely aimed at how a country is set up, nothing to do with the latter.
 
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I just find it hypocritical you want Pakistan to keep persisting with a failed experiment of basing a society on a foreign ideology who themselves have no idea what they are doing. Just look at Dubai, there are more hookers there than Amsterdam now :lol: Saudi are now opening their country up too. Your Islamic state concept is a failure just admit it, Syria and Afghanistan are perfect examples. It's never worked, just like communism.

Also just to be clear, there is a distinction here from an Islamic country and Islam the religion. This is purely aimed at how a country is set up, nothing to do with the latter.

Hmm... I didn't know, my arguments hurt your prostitution business. I mean how else can one interpret your statements above... hookers doing great in Holland, Dubai and Saudi ... in that order but not in Pakistan... and you hold me responsible for that‽

You want to wear suits and tie be my guest... in west we keeps changing our clothes... just keep up willya.
 
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Read objectives resolution. And how Jinnah selected religious ulema to advise on its drafting. The panel was constituted before his death and passed after his death.

Meray Bhai, Jinnah didn't select any religious ulema to draft Objectives Resolution... There was no talk about any such Resolution during Jinnah's life. It was only after his death that ML opportunists invented the idea of the Objectives Resolution to delay elections and prolong their rule

Jhoot ki bhi koi had Hoti hai yar
 
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Meray Bhai, Jinnah didn't select any religious ulema to draft Objectives Resolution... There was no talk about any such Resolution during Jinnah's life. It was only after his death that ML opportunists invented the idea of the Objectives Resolution to delay elections and prolong their rule

Jhoot ki bhi koi had Hoti hai yar
This is simply false. Jinnah was alive when the committee to draft the objectives resolution was selected. That is a fact. Your saying it is not does not change it.

It is also a fact that Jinnah did select religious scholars to advise the committee and that some people on said committee were religious scholars themselves. Maulana Osmani is credited with the drafting of the resolution.

It is also a fact that Jinnah selected Zafarul Haq, an Ahmadi, to sit on the panel. That would be a more suitable argument to make if you wanted to suggest that Jinnah did not want an Islamic republic. But this would be flawed because his inclusion in the panel was to safeguard the interests of the minorities.

From the Jinnah reader that @Neelo linked- http://jinnahsociety.org.pk/

Jinnah on the type of state that he wanted pg1-

1) democracy
2) Islamic in nature
3) no theocracy
4) protection of minorities

Notice this is exactly what the objectives resolution laid out.

“The Constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly,
I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principles of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago, Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of men, justice and fairplay to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions ... as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case, Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State—to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non- Muslims Hindus, Christians, and Parsis but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.”

Here is Jinnah on y’all being oh so proud of your ethnic identities and making your ethnicities important. Jinnah trashes ethnic centrism for Muslim identity.

Jinnah reader pg 9:-

“SO what is the use of saying, ‘We are Bengalis, or Sindhis, or Pathans, or Punjabis.’ No, we are Muslims. Islam has taught us this and I think you will agree with me that, whatever else you may be and whatever you are, you are a Muslim. You belong to a nation now; you have now carved out a territory, vast territory; it is all yours; it does not belong to a Punjabi or a Sindhi, or a Pathan, or a Bengali; it is yours. ...Provincialism has been one of the curses; and so is sectionalism— Shia, Sunni, etc.

Now I ask you to get rid of this provincialism because, as long as you allow this poison to remain in the body politic of Pakistan, believe me, you will never be a strong nation and you will never be able to achieve what I wish we could achieve.”

I just find it hypocritical you want Pakistan to keep persisting with a failed experiment of basing a society on a foreign ideology who themselves have no idea what they are doing and are a bad copy of ancient Greek who's text they plagiarized. Just look at Dubai, there are more hookers there than Amsterdam now :lol: Saudi are now opening their country up too. Your Islamic state concept is a failure just admit it, Syria and Afghanistan are perfect examples. It's never worked, just like communism.

Also just to be clear, there is a distinction here from an Islamic country and Islam the religion. This is purely aimed at how a country is set up, nothing to do with the latter.
It is you that wants Pakistan to persist in this failed experiment of being a haven for secular liberal elites like yourselves instead of letting it be a true Islamic republic that is the will of the people. Your kind are responsible for its failure, not our educated and religious middle class kind.

Also @Neelo you need to clarify what the heck you mean by saying that a republic based on Islamic republic is simply a Muslim republic. How so?

If Jinnah, the lawyer, who was always impeccable with his diction, wanted to advocate merely for a republic that would be majority Muslim, he would never have said that he wanted a constitution based on Islamic principles (his actual words). Wanting Islamic principles, a state based on teachings of Islam, makes the state by definition an Islamic republic, not merely a Muslim republic.

I am not the one putting words in his mouth. Y’all are.
 
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Cope secularist.
Pakistan will be an Islamic state.
We will never allow Pakistan to be a secular country and will go to any lengths to prevent it from going secular.
You secularists can’t fight for shit, love lgbtq and don’t have babies. Your breed will naturally go extinct soon.
 
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Pakistan only exist with Islam.
If Pakistan becomes a secular country I want to separate from Pakistan.
If Pakistan becomes a secular country, there is no such thing as Pakistan for me.
If I want a secular country then I prefer a large united Panjab.
Islam comes first. If Pakistan is an Islamic country it shares the spot at first
Otherwise ethnicity comes second for me. Idc about any other ‘Pakistani’. Only Islam can unite me with others. Without Islam I don’t intend to share my resources or land with anyone.
 
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This is simply false. Jinnah was alive when the committee to draft the objectives resolution was selected. That is a fact. Your saying it is not does not change it.

It is also a fact that Jinnah did select religious scholars to advise the committee and that some people on said committee were religious scholars themselves. Maulana Osmani is credited with the drafting of the resolution.

It is also a fact that Jinnah selected Zafarul Haq, an Ahmadi, to sit on the panel. That would be a more suitable argument to make if you wanted to suggest that Jinnah did not want an Islamic republic. But this would be flawed because his inclusion in the panel was to safeguard the interests of the minorities.

From the Jinnah reader that @Neelo linked- http://jinnahsociety.org.pk/

Jinnah on the type of state that he wanted pg1-

1) democracy
2) Islamic in nature
3) no theocracy
4) protection of minorities

Notice this is exactly what the objectives resolution laid out.

“The Constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly,
I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principles of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago, Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of men, justice and fairplay to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions ... as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case, Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State—to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non- Muslims Hindus, Christians, and Parsis but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.”

Here is Jinnah on y’all being oh so proud of your ethnic identities and making your ethnicities important. Jinnah trashes ethnic centrism for Muslim identity.

Jinnah reader pg 9:-

“SO what is the use of saying, ‘We are Bengalis, or Sindhis, or Pathans, or Punjabis.’ No, we are Muslims. Islam has taught us this and I think you will agree with me that, whatever else you may be and whatever you are, you are a Muslim. You belong to a nation now; you have now carved out a territory, vast territory; it is all yours; it does not belong to a Punjabi or a Sindhi, or a Pathan, or a Bengali; it is yours. ...Provincialism has been one of the curses; and so is sectionalism— Shia, Sunni, etc.

Now I ask you to get rid of this provincialism because, as long as you allow this poison to remain in the body politic of Pakistan, believe me, you will never be a strong nation and you will never be able to achieve what I wish we could achieve.”


It is you that wants Pakistan to persist in this failed experiment of being a haven for secular liberal elites like yourselves instead of letting it be a true Islamic republic that is the will of the people. Your kind are responsible for its failure, not our educated and religious middle class kind.

Also @Neelo you need to clarify what the heck you mean by saying that a republic based on Islamic republic is simply a Muslim republic. How so?

If Jinnah, the lawyer, who was always impeccable with his diction, wanted to advocate merely for a republic that would be majority Muslim, he would never have said that he wanted a constitution based on Islamic principles (his actual words). Wanting Islamic principles, a state based on teachings of Islam, makes the state by definition an Islamic republic, not merely a Muslim republic.

I am not the one putting words in his mouth. Y’all are.

Meray Bhai, copy/pasting loads of crap won't prove you right

Let's discuss it point-by-point.
You claimed that Jinnah set up a committee (of religious scholars) to draft Objectives Resolution

Now anyone with even basic knowledge about Pakistan History would know that it simply isn't true. Objectives Resolution was introduced by Liaquat Ali, almost 6 months after the death of Jinnah

Please provide primary sources to back up your claim, or admit that you had been wrong about this one, so that we can discuss the remaining points
 
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first, teach our people STEM than history - this is all eyewash to take our focus away from the real issues of our people
seems to be a foreign agenda or people partially influenced by a foreign agenda
Exactly. USA has such a checkered history that would give one the mother of identity crises, but they are not hung up on that stuff. They had their eyes on the prize.
 
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first, teach our people STEM than history - this is all eyewash to take our focus away from the real issues of our people
seems to be a foreign agenda or people partially influenced by a foreign agenda
Salman b. Fahd al-Oudah said:
Over-emphasizing minor details has been a negative aspect of contemporary Muslim life for a very long time. It is not merely an affliction affecting one aspect of life, and it is not merely a mistake made by those engaged in Islamic work. It is a mistake that Muslims fall victim to in every aspect of their lives, without exception.
Salman b. Fahd al-Oudah said:
Muslims are overly concerned with minor details in everything that matters to them. This excessive concern for the details has caused them to neglect issues of universal importance and lose sight of the fundamentals.

drowning in trivialities and taking/keeping down Pakistan with them
 
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drowning in trivialities and taking/keeping down Pakistan with them

Arabs don't have this problem.

Analysis paralysis is typical behavior of how Pakistanis initially entered the faith so tip toeing around insignificant and minor details is to be expected. Yet another reason why religion and state should be kept seperate as this behavior affects governance. Do it on your homes, not in parliament.
 
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Meray Bhai, Jinnah didn't select any religious ulema to draft Objectives Resolution... There was no talk about any such Resolution during Jinnah's life. It was only after his death that ML opportunists invented the idea of the Objectives Resolution to delay elections and prolong their rule

Jhoot ki bhi koi had Hoti hai yar

And on top of it, the Objectives Resolution wasn’t even passed unanimously! About 21 members of the Legislative Assembly (out of a total 71) opposed to the contents.

When 1/3 are opposed, how can any nation think of basing its constitution off of that.

The Objectives Resolution was the biggest farce in our history….everything is basically tired to that….even Zia’s destructive social reforms basically goes back to that…although he himself was as crazy as any mullah.

Meray Bhai, copy/pasting loads of crap won't prove you right

He only knows how to copy and paste fake quotes of Jinnah. When I asked him to provide me a direct source to Jinnah’s Archives, he didn’t bother replying….later the picture of the fake quote was deleted.

I even went as far as to give him a website from which he could find the quote.

I encourage everyone to use this link and cross reference any Jinnah quotes that these Islamist psychos use. 9/10 times it’s either fake or only a part of a larger speech/quote.


This is how religious these people are….that they’re willing to lie and cheat to establish an Islamic Republic.

Oh the Irony!
 
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