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Why is Indian Air Force Tajikistan's Ayni Air Base Idle?

just because it's your wet dream doesn't mean any sane person will allow his house to be used as hit and hide place against a nuclear power you wanna live in that fantacy land more power to you.

You are threatening to use Nukes...........really? I don't believe any wise country will ever use them against any other country.........but really not sure about Pakistan and North Korea.:undecided:

And as far as head aches for PAF is concerned last i checked Pakistan is a small country compares to India and our Airforce is been a nightmare for you a country 20 times the size of Pakistan and that alone is something for us to be proud of and i am sure our air force is ready for any aggression showed by our enemy be it from east or west.

LOOK.............WHAT A BIG IMPRESSION WE HAVE OVER YOU..............India seems 20 times bigger to your eyes (I hope you have both of thm;))
:chilli::taz::victory:
 
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you had enough planes in past wars (e.g. 1965) what happened?

looking back, and having studied Gibralter from different perspectives I agree that our objectives were not met even though Op Grand Slam relieved a lot of the pressure on our forces

Had Akhnur been captured and the hindstany lines of comm. destroyed then attack on Sialkot could never have occurred; though in retrospect I personally am glad that it did because we taught the hindustanys a lesson which to this day they will always remember

What did you pull out in 1965??? As you talk so much about 1965, lets try to find out...........

Indo-Pakistani War of 1965
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aftermath
India

Despite the declaration of a ceasefire, India was perceived as the victor due to its success in halting the Pakistan-backed insurgency in Kashmir. In its October 1965 issue, the TIME magazine quoted a Western official assessing the consequences of the war—

Now it's apparent to everybody that India is going to emerge as an Asian power in its own right.

In light of the failures of the Sino-Indian War, the outcome of the 1965 war was viewed as a "politico-strategic" victory in India. The Indian premier, Lal Bahadur Shastri, was hailed as a national hero in India.

While the overall performance of the Indian military was praised, military leaders were criticized for their failure to effectively deploy India's superior armed forces so as to achieve a decisive victory over Pakistan. In his book "War in the modern world since 1815", noted war historian Jeremy Black said that though Pakistan "lost heavily" during the 1965 war, India's hasty decision to call for negotiations prevented further considerable damage to the Pakistan Armed Forces. He elaborates —

India's chief of army staff urged negotiations on the ground that they were running out ammunition and their number of tanks had become seriously depleted. In fact, the army had used less than 15% of its ammunition compared to Pakistan, which had consumed closer to 80 percent and India had double the number of serviceable tanks.

As a consequence, India focussed on enhancing communication and coordination within and among the triservices of the Indian Armed Forces. Partly as a result of the inefficient information gathering preceding the war, India established the Research and Analysis Wing for external espionage and intelligence. Major improvements were also made in command and control to address various shortcomings and the positive impact of these changes was clearly visible during the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 when India achieved a decisive victory over Pakistan within two weeks.

China's repeated threats to intervene in the conflict in support of Pakistan increased pressure on the government to take an immediate decision to develop nuclear weapons. Despite repeated assurances, the United States did little to prevent extensive use of American arms by Pakistani forces during the conflict which irked India. At the same time, the United States and United Kingdom refused to supply India with sophisticated weaponry which further strained the relations between the West and India. These developments led to a significant change in India's foreign policy — India, which had previously championed the cause of non-alignment, distanced itself further from Western powers and developed close relations with the Soviet Union. By the end of 1960s, the Soviet Union emerged as the biggest supplier of military hardware to India. From 1967 to 1977, 81% of India's arms imports were from the Soviet Union. After the 1965 war, the arms race between India and Pakistan became even more asymmetric and India was outdistancing Pakistan by far.

Pakistan
At the conclusion of the war, many Pakistanis considered the performance of their military to be positive. September 6 is celebrated as 'Defence Day' in Pakistan, in commemoration of the successful defence of Lahore against the Indian army. The performance of the Pakistani Air Force, in particular, was praised.

However, the Pakistani government was accused by foreign analysts of spreading disinformation among its citizens regarding the actual consequences of the war.


In his book "Mainsprings of Indian and Pakistani foreign policies", S.M. Burke writes — After the Indo-Pakistani war of 1965 the balance of military power had decisively shifted in favor of India. Pakistan had found it difficult to replace the heavy equipment lost during that conflict while her adversary, despite her economic and political problems, had been determinedly building up her strength.

Most observers agree that the myth of a mobile, hard hitting Pakistan Army was badly dented in the war, as critical breakthroughs were not made. Several Pakistani writers criticized the military's ill-founded belief that their "martial race" of soldiers could defeat "Hindu India" in the war.

Rasul Bux Rais, a Pakistani political analyst wrote – The 1965 war with India proved that Pakistan could neither break the formidable Indian defenses in a blitzkrieg fashion nor could she sustain an all-out conflict for long.

Moreover, Pakistan had lost more ground than it had gained during the war and, more importantly, failed to achieve its goal of occupying Kashmir; this result has been viewed by many impartial observers as a defeat for Pakistan.

Many high ranking Pakistani officials and military experts later criticized the faulty planning of Operation Gibraltar that ultimately led to the war. The Tashkent declaration was also criticized in Pakistan, though few citizens realised the gravity of the situation that existed at the end of the war. Political leaders were also criticized. Following the advice of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, Pakistan's foreign minister, Ayub Khan had raised very high expectations among the people of Pakistan about the superiority – if not invincibility – of its armed forces, but Pakistan's inability to attain its military aims during the war, created a political liability for Ayub. The defeat of its Kashmiri ambitions in the war led to the army's invincibility being challenged by an increasingly vocal opposition.

One of the most far reaching consequences of the war was the wide-scale economic slowdown in Pakistan. The cost of the 1965 war put an end to the impressive period economic growth Pakistan had experienced during early 1960s. Between 1964 and 1966, Pakistan's defence spending rose from 4.82% to 9.86% of GDP, putting tremendous strain on Pakistan's economy. By 1970–71, defence spending comprised a whopping 55.66% of government expenditure.

Another negative consequence of the war was the growing resentment against the Pakistani government in East Pakistan (present day Bangladesh), particularly for West Pakistan's obsession with Kashmir. Bengali leaders accused the central government of not providing adequate security for East Pakistan during the conflict, even though large sums of money were taken from the east to finance the war for Kashmir. In fact, despite some Pakistan Air Force attacks being launched from bases in East Pakistan during the war, India did not retaliate in that sector,[ although East Pakistan was defended only by an understrenghted infantry division (14 Division), sixteen planes and no tanks. Sheikh Mujibur Rahman was critical of the disparity in military resources deployed in East and West Pakistan, calling for greater autonomy for East Pakistan, which ultimately led to the Bangladesh Liberation war and another war between India and Pakistan in 1971.

In short - 1965 war was the begining of downfall of Pakistan that led it to where it is today. Still you people think that you were on top in 1965 and taught us a lesson, which till this day we remember..........WE have no objections. We will like to remember, for sure. You can enjoy believing in whatever you were told. :cheers:
 
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looking back, and having studied Gibralter from different perspectives I agree that our objectives were not met even though Op Grand Slam relieved a lot of the pressure on our forces

Had Akhnur been captured and the hindstany lines of comm. destroyed then attack on Sialkot could never have occurred; though in retrospect I personally am glad that it did because we taught the hindustanys a lesson which to this day they will always remember


but anyways, back on subject

Wat did u guys teach us in 1965??
The fact is that u guys wanted to split our country in 65 we retaliated inspite of being badly wounded in 62 .We were successful in saving our homeland.We destroyed ur military and economy.and that was the start and in 1971 we exactly done wat some morons tried in 65 and we were successful..

So if some mentally imbalanced like zaid hamid says "hum 71 ka badla lengey.he sould also rember that 71 happened bcoz u guyz did the same thing in 65..
 
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This is what actually happened, I am only posting it to show you the reality.

Operation Grand Slam -DAWN Magazine; November 27, 2005

MODERN day war complicates rather than solves anything. A country goes to war either to defend its sovereignty in case of attack, or to overwhelm an adversary for political or territorial/material gains.

The War in 1965 was undertaken by General Ayub not for the first reason. Similarly, Hitler started WWII in 1940, Suharto annexed Eastern Timor in 1975, Gen Galteiri occupied Falkland Islands in 1982, and Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1990 -- all for personal glory and political gains. Bush invaded Iraq on March 19, 2003, for the black gold.

In 1965, the plan ‘Operation Gibraltar' involved sneaking a mixed force of 70,000, trained and regulars, into Indian-held Kashmir and invoke a general uprising in the local populace. The general feeling in the army high command was that Indians had no stomach of warfare and were no match for the superior. The war plan originated in the Foreign Office. The D-day was set for August 5, 1965.

Military high command took it to be as one blow, limited and confined operation, forgetting that war is not an isolated act and once started, it cannot be confined by time or space. Secondly, against defined and proclaimed logic, the military in Pakistan had taken over the political direction of the war.

Our scope is limited to the operation conducted on the Kashmir front under Maj-General Akhtar Malik where, given the opportunity and time, Pakistan could have dictated terms to India on other fronts (‘unexpectedly') opened later by India. But it was not to be. Much has been written about the change in command in the 1965 War, when late Maj-General Akhtar Hussain Malik, Commander 12 Division which had the responsibility for Jammu and Kashmir, was replaced by Maj. Gen. Yahya Khan, Commander 7 Div, and Akhnur was let off the hook, thereby saving the Indian forces a huge embarrassment.

Discussing the initial plans of ‘Operation Gibraltar', Ayub had put his finger at Akhnur across river Tawi, on the sand model asked: “But why don’t you go for the jugular?” General Malik asked for more money and men and Ayub readily agreed. (Altaf Gauhar, Ayub Khan Pakistan’s First Military Ruler’s Sange-meel Publications 1998 p.332)

The attack on Akhnur was given the code name ‘Operation Grand Slam’, to be launched after the ‘Operation Gibraltar'. Gen Akhtar Malik was assigned this task as he knew the area like the back of his hand, and he was a bold and audacious commander.

Gen. Malik had already captured Chamb on September 1, and was well poised to go for Akhnur on September 2, 1965 when he was relieved of command in a most bizarre mysterious manner, defying common sense and logic. Before Musa flew Malik back from the front, General Malik had offered his services to fight under Yahya’s command to take Akhnur.

General Musa, the C-n-C, flew with Gen Yahya on the front on September 2, 1965 to replace General Malik who would not hand over charge otherwise. Yahya was specifically asked by Musa not to advance. A pause of 48 hours was enough for Indian forces to regroup and blunt the Pakistani advance. The Indians also opened another front on Lahore, thus spreading Pakistan Forces thin along the western border. Having lost the initiative, now Pakistan was fighting for its survival. One can lose a battle or even a war, but in Kashmir at that time, it was a victory lost.

The prevailing view in GHQ was that Gen. Ayub had lost his nerve. (Altaf Gauhar p. 334) Shortly before his death, Bhutto had expressed similar views about Ayub, saying he used to panic during crises. (Col. Rafiuddin Bhutto kay akhri 323 din, Jang Publications 1992 p.61) Bhutto observed that Pakistan Army had yet to produce another fighting general of Akhtar Malik’s calibre and had Malik been allowed to advance in Chhamb-Jurian Sector, he would have played havoc with the Indian Forces. (Col Rafiuddin p.66)

After the 1965 War, the talk on change of command in Kashmir became taboo but with death of Gen Musa, the subject was discussed threadbare. The ISPR floated the idea that the change of command in 1965 was pre-planned. Brig. Gul Hassan (late Lt. Gen. and Army Chief), at that time, Director Military Operations, in his memoirs, denied the existence of any such planned change of command during the execution of Operation Grand Slam.

Secondly, Brig. Gul Hassan said he knew Gen. Malik well enough to say that he (Gen. Malik) would never have accepted a command for 24 hours for such a daunting assignment. What happened behind the scenes may never be known. (Lt. Gen Gul Hassan Akhri Commander-in-Chief, Dost Publications Isd. 1999 p.231-234)

Gen. Ayub published his biography Friends Not Master in 1967 but he failed to cover the 1965 War, as it was not a glorious chapter of his life. He tried to gloss over history.

As soon as Yahya took over from Musa as C-n-C in September 1966, he posted out Gen Malik on a CENTO assignment in Turkey. General Akhtar Malik died in 1969 in a car crash in Turkey. It could have been a target-assassination. General Malik had met the Jordanian Ambassador a few days earlier in Ankara. The Ambassador had asked General Malik to help upgrade the Jordanian Army, a job that was accepted by the latter.

It could be Mossad for Israel didn’t want Jordan to acquire the services of a professional general (according to an ex-Army Officer who asked not to be revealed). Israel has been deeply involved in anything that affects its security, especially its neighbours. In 1980, Mossad had eliminated an Egyptian nuclear physicist, Dr Yahia El Meshad, in Paris who had been helping Iraq in setting up its nuclear plant. (Claire Hoy & Victor Ostrovsky By Way of Deception Stoddart Publishing Co.Ltd. Toronto 1990 p.23)

According to officers who fought on Kashmir front, had General Malik been allowed to capture Akhnur, Ayub would not have ignored him for the post of C-n-C. The country as a consequence, would not have undergone the ensuring colossal tragedy of 1971. But that is a wishful afterthought.

Ayub, who had appointed Musa as his first Army Chief and Yahya as the next (the appointment of first almost cost us West Pakistan in 1965 and under the next one we lost East Pakistan in 1971), would not have liked a general of Akhtar Malik’s stature to command the Pakistan Army. Tragic but true!

It was not because of India that we had to go on the defensive but rather the mistakes of our own leaders to stopped Maj Gen Akhtar Malik.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhtar_Hussain_Malik

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Grand_Slam

Also at the Rann of Kucth, Iftikhar Janjua had showed that we could have achieved our goals. Its only our own that made us fail, curse you Ayub, Musa and Yayha. May you drunks rot in hell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iftikhar_Janjua
 
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We really wanted to show that to you just bring another plane close to our territory and Inshallah you will not going to be disappionted.:rofl::pakistan:

A soverign nation which is capable of defending it self and its air space doesnot give hollow claims when enemy planes intrude ..
U know wat capable ppl do??

they just shoot the plane down as IAF has done to a PN Atlantique

now laugh as much as u want...
 
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This is what actually happened, I am only posting it to show you the reality.

Operation Grand Slam -DAWN Magazine; November 27, 2005



It was not because of India that we had to go on the defensive but rather the mistakes of our own leaders to stopped Maj Gen Akhtar Malik.

Akhtar Hussain Malik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Operation Grand Slam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also at the Rann of Kucth, Iftikhar Janjua had showed that we could have achieved our goals. Its only our own that made us fail, curse you Ayub, Musa and Yayha. May you drunks rot in hell.

Iftikhar Janjua - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Internal problem; may be...........but at that time, India also got many problems. Also, We were trying to come out of the failures of the 1962 War. United States and United Kingdom refused to supply India with sophisticated weaponry. Still, u got beaten. So, you don't blame only your leaders........Blame Indian Armed Forces tooooo... :devil:

You mean if your own leaders dind't stop Maj. Gen. Akhtar Malik, you were going to win.............:rofl::rofl::rofl:


Its only our own that made us fail..........yuppp; otherwise you were going to take Kashmir naa?:bunny:

Sill I appriciate you hv guts to admit that you failed in 1965. Give some private tution to Abu Zolfiqar..........He is very bad in "History."

:mps::devil::thinktank:
 
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yes i need some hindustany nooB on this forum to shed the rags, put on a 2nd hand suit with clip-on tie and call himself my history professor





I do hereby politely DECLINE.



thanks. :)
 
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I think the best the Pakistan could offer is to go near Pak-Afghan border(near to Tajikistan border) and create the MANPAD's like the old Pakistani fashion way and the indian if they even tried to cross the border even with their LCA in future in 2017 Haahahahh if available will be doomed because of the fact that the planes will be flying at altitudes that's reachable for MANPAD's through the mountains heights
 
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