What's new

Why is great philosopher Kautilya not part of Pakistan’s historical consciousness?

Chanakyaa

BANNED
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
6,538
Reaction score
-36
Country
India
Location
India
Why is great philosopher Kautilya not part of Pakistan’s historical consciousness?

[ FROM A PAKISTANI WRITER : SAIF TAHIR ]


1-4.jpg

Source : https://www.dawn.com/news/1348014

When nearby residents tire of the daily grind, and when the temperatures soar in the summer, they seek respite at the glistening Khanpur Lake, located in the Haripur District of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

But on the way to Khanpur, just beyond the precipice of Taxila, one notices there a signboard that has rusted with age. Mohra Muradu Remains, it says, marking a thin road that snakes off into lush fields reminiscent of all those beautiful vistas you might see in a nature documentary on Pakistan

Walking along the road, one sees a small village perched upon a mountain, and a stream that rumbles with the authentic, tidal force of Mother Nature.

East of that stream are the remains of an old settlement, fairly preserved: a large stupa and other structures crafted out of black stone, the remnants of a 2nd century BC monastery called Mohra Muradu.

5979c223447bb.jpg

The Mohra Muradu monastery lightly kissed by sunlight. - Photo: Saif Tahir


Mohra Muradu was one of the 18 monasteries – Jolian, Dharmarajika, Sirkap, and Pipplan being the other important ones – that constituted Takshashila – the world’s first known university and a powerhouse of academic knowledge.

It is to be noted that although the word ‘university’ was not invented back then, Takshashila, which was formed in 7th century BC, functioned very much like a university.

The Buddhist sacred scriptures, the Jatakas, mention Takshashila as a centuries-old centre for learning. It was here that the Mahabharta was first said to be recited.

The rise of Gandhara, a kingdom in the northwestern region of present-day Pakistan, had a significant impact on Takshashila’s growth. The university offered 63 courses that included Vedas, astronomy, philosophy, surgery, politics, warfare, commerce, music, archery, and other performing arts.

5979c13a069d3.jpg

A stupa of the Dharmarajika monastery. - Photo: Saif Tahir


According to other Buddhist texts, such as the Pali Canon, Brahmin princes and students migrated from far distances to enroll at Takshashila, and its alumni include a thorough list of notables: Jatopil, the commander in chief of Banaras; Jivaka, who cured Buddha; Parasasenajit, the ruler of Kosala; Panini, a great grammarian; and Charaka, a famous physician.

But perhaps the institution’s most noteworthy alumni is the legendary political philosopher and thinker, Chanakya, better known as Kautilya, the author of Arthashastra, often compared to the Italian mastermind Machiavelli and his book The Prince.

There is a popular South Asian adage: "jo gur se maray, usay zehar kyun do". The saying originates from an intriguing interaction between a prince, Maurya, and Chanakya, back in 330 BC.

5979c13d4f123.jpg

The Dharmarajika monastery's remains. - Photo: Saif Tahir


Maurya was on a stroll one day when he noticed an odd sight: Chanakya, on his knees, pouring honey on to the roots of grass. Maurya approached him and inquired of his purpose, to which Chanakya replied that he was sweetening the roots.

Apparently, Chanakya had tripped over the grass while walking. He decided it was much better to uproot the grass permanently so that he never stumbles over it again, rather than removing it temporarily.

And so he was sweetening the roots, because the colonies of ants under the soil would sniff out the nectar, find it, and nibble through the roots, rendering the grass dead for good.

Impressed by Chanakya’s wisdom, Maurya henceforth hired him as chief advisor for state affairs. This laid the foundation for a long and enduring relationship between Chanakya and Chandra Gupta Maurya – one which helped establish a state so powerful and vast it stretched across the entire Indian subcontinent and lasted for nearly 150 years.

It became the largest (in terms of geographical expanse) and the most glorious empire Indian history has ever witnessed, even larger than the Mughal empire.

5979c22c83ee7.jpg

The remains of the Sirkap monastery. - Photo: Saif Tahir


Not many are privy to Chanakya’s indissoluble relationship with what's today Pakistan. Born in the suburbs of present-day Taxila, young Chanakya’s burgeoning intellect had him quickly noticed, and for his studies he was admitted to Takshashila, where he rose above the ranks and was hired as a teacher during his 20’s.

His magnum opus Arthashastra talks about various subjects of power and facets of governance. It enlists the duties of the ruler, the associates, and the advisor; discusses intricate matters, such as the art of diplomacy, the rules of unleashing and defending wars, the duties of the state during peacetime; domestic governance affairs like taxation, commerce, law, municipal affairs; social norms and customs; and artisan work, agriculture, medicine, and census.

On one hand, it provides an account of the Chandragupta army – the facts, numbers, weapons – and on the other, it says, “mere numbers do not count for much; without discipline and proper leadership they may become a burden.”

5979c05aa623a.jpg

A board reading the history of the Mohra Muradu monastery. - Photo: Saif Tahir


Unlike Lahore – where the city sounds off frequently in recognition of the poet and philosopher Allama Iqbal – Taxila, a much older city, is devoid of any reference to its son, Chanakya. Some time ago, there was an attempt to create a university in his name; however, the political rifts and bureaucratic hurdles relegated it to an unending limbo.

Today, the only references to his existence are the shattered monasteries and the shambled remains of the once-great Takshashila.

Of these monasteries, Mohra Muradu is still a thriving village: an abode to 200 families, encircled by mountains and fields, home also to orchards and olive grafting. The settlement history of the village is unknown, but to locals it is as old as the monastery’s remains.

5979c137eb213.jpg

A view of the Pipplan monastery. - Photo: Saif Tahir


A young university graduate, Anis ur Rehman, runs the only private school in the village. He is proud of his village as being part of the world’s first learning centre, and of it he says: “Mohra Muradu is a historical village. It was always a centre of education and is still an educated village with many graduates and PhDs, some pursuing higher degrees outside the country.”

Sir Syed Ideal School, the school he runs, has a block named after his grandfather, Master Abdul Rehman, one of the first graduates of Aligarh University in Uttar Pradesh, India.

While showing his small school library, named after Chanakya, Anis continues: “I have read about Chanakya and it is a matter of pride for us that we gave the world a philosopher who is revered everywhere.”

Henry Kissinger in his book World Order described Chanakya’s Arthashastra as avant-garde that established hard power as a dominant reality in politics and validated realism much earlier than Machiavelli’s The Prince.

Whilst the world recognises Chanakya's stature as a philosopher, he’s nothing more than another example of how our nation has made someone a pariah without realising what they stood for.

Chanakya is damned for obvious reasons. He is presumed to be a representative of the Brahmin mindset and Hindu culture which we have parted from a long time ago. Merely this was enough to disqualify him from the stature of a learned philosopher of the soil.

Hence, not a single reference of him is found in the country, whereas we already have buildings and campuses named after scientists and philosophers from different eras and places.

Nothing can describe this irony better than The Indus Saga , in which Aitzaz Ahsan writes in the preface: “… a nation in denial of its national identity is unfortunate. But when it chooses to adopt an extra-territorial identity, it becomes a prisoner of propaganda and myths... This is the Pakistan of today, not the Pakistan of its founders. Identity is at the heart of its problem”.

If Pakistan is to come out of its tortuous identity crisis, it needs to accept its non-Muslim history as its own. Recognising someone as important as Chanakya will have to be part of the long process.
 
. .
Chandragupta employed female bodygaurds. He had a weird fetish of them. I won't be surprised if he was involved in some Kinky Stuff with them.
 
.

Source : https://www.dawn.com/news/1348014

When nearby residents tire of the daily grind, and when the temperatures soar in the summer, they seek respite at the glistening Khanpur Lake, located in the Haripur District of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

But on the way to Khanpur, just beyond the precipice of Taxila, one notices there a signboard that has rusted with age. Mohra Muradu Remains, it says, marking a thin road that snakes off into lush fields reminiscent of all those beautiful vistas you might see in a nature documentary on Pakistan

Walking along the road, one sees a small village perched upon a mountain, and a stream that rumbles with the authentic, tidal force of Mother Nature.

East of that stream are the remains of an old settlement, fairly preserved: a large stupa and other structures crafted out of black stone, the remnants of a 2nd century BC monastery called Mohra Muradu.

5979c223447bb.jpg

The Mohra Muradu monastery lightly kissed by sunlight. - Photo: Saif Tahir


Mohra Muradu was one of the 18 monasteries – Jolian, Dharmarajika, Sirkap, and Pipplan being the other important ones – that constituted Takshashila – the world’s first known university and a powerhouse of academic knowledge.

It is to be noted that although the word ‘university’ was not invented back then, Takshashila, which was formed in 7th century BC, functioned very much like a university.

The Buddhist sacred scriptures, the Jatakas, mention Takshashila as a centuries-old centre for learning. It was here that the Mahabharta was first said to be recited.

The rise of Gandhara, a kingdom in the northwestern region of present-day Pakistan, had a significant impact on Takshashila’s growth. The university offered 63 courses that included Vedas, astronomy, philosophy, surgery, politics, warfare, commerce, music, archery, and other performing arts.

5979c13a069d3.jpg

A stupa of the Dharmarajika monastery. - Photo: Saif Tahir


According to other Buddhist texts, such as the Pali Canon, Brahmin princes and students migrated from far distances to enroll at Takshashila, and its alumni include a thorough list of notables: Jatopil, the commander in chief of Banaras; Jivaka, who cured Buddha; Parasasenajit, the ruler of Kosala; Panini, a great grammarian; and Charaka, a famous physician.

But perhaps the institution’s most noteworthy alumni is the legendary political philosopher and thinker, Chanakya, better known as Kautilya, the author of Arthashastra, often compared to the Italian mastermind Machiavelli and his book The Prince.

There is a popular South Asian adage: "jo gur se maray, usay zehar kyun do". The saying originates from an intriguing interaction between a prince, Maurya, and Chanakya, back in 330 BC.

5979c13d4f123.jpg

The Dharmarajika monastery's remains. - Photo: Saif Tahir


Maurya was on a stroll one day when he noticed an odd sight: Chanakya, on his knees, pouring honey on to the roots of grass. Maurya approached him and inquired of his purpose, to which Chanakya replied that he was sweetening the roots.

Apparently, Chanakya had tripped over the grass while walking. He decided it was much better to uproot the grass permanently so that he never stumbles over it again, rather than removing it temporarily.

And so he was sweetening the roots, because the colonies of ants under the soil would sniff out the nectar, find it, and nibble through the roots, rendering the grass dead for good.

Impressed by Chanakya’s wisdom, Maurya henceforth hired him as chief advisor for state affairs. This laid the foundation for a long and enduring relationship between Chanakya and Chandra Gupta Maurya – one which helped establish a state so powerful and vast it stretched across the entire Indian subcontinent and lasted for nearly 150 years.

It became the largest (in terms of geographical expanse) and the most glorious empire Indian history has ever witnessed, even larger than the Mughal empire.

5979c22c83ee7.jpg

The remains of the Sirkap monastery. - Photo: Saif Tahir


Not many are privy to Chanakya’s indissoluble relationship with what's today Pakistan. Born in the suburbs of present-day Taxila, young Chanakya’s burgeoning intellect had him quickly noticed, and for his studies he was admitted to Takshashila, where he rose above the ranks and was hired as a teacher during his 20’s.

His magnum opus Arthashastra talks about various subjects of power and facets of governance. It enlists the duties of the ruler, the associates, and the advisor; discusses intricate matters, such as the art of diplomacy, the rules of unleashing and defending wars, the duties of the state during peacetime; domestic governance affairs like taxation, commerce, law, municipal affairs; social norms and customs; and artisan work, agriculture, medicine, and census.

On one hand, it provides an account of the Chandragupta army – the facts, numbers, weapons – and on the other, it says, “mere numbers do not count for much; without discipline and proper leadership they may become a burden.”

5979c05aa623a.jpg

A board reading the history of the Mohra Muradu monastery. - Photo: Saif Tahir


Unlike Lahore – where the city sounds off frequently in recognition of the poet and philosopher Allama Iqbal – Taxila, a much older city, is devoid of any reference to its son, Chanakya. Some time ago, there was an attempt to create a university in his name; however, the political rifts and bureaucratic hurdles relegated it to an unending limbo.

Today, the only references to his existence are the shattered monasteries and the shambled remains of the once-great Takshashila.

Of these monasteries, Mohra Muradu is still a thriving village: an abode to 200 families, encircled by mountains and fields, home also to orchards and olive grafting. The settlement history of the village is unknown, but to locals it is as old as the monastery’s remains.

5979c137eb213.jpg

A view of the Pipplan monastery. - Photo: Saif Tahir


A young university graduate, Anis ur Rehman, runs the only private school in the village. He is proud of his village as being part of the world’s first learning centre, and of it he says: “Mohra Muradu is a historical village. It was always a centre of education and is still an educated village with many graduates and PhDs, some pursuing higher degrees outside the country.”

Sir Syed Ideal School, the school he runs, has a block named after his grandfather, Master Abdul Rehman, one of the first graduates of Aligarh University in Uttar Pradesh, India.

While showing his small school library, named after Chanakya, Anis continues: “I have read about Chanakya and it is a matter of pride for us that we gave the world a philosopher who is revered everywhere.”

Henry Kissinger in his book World Order described Chanakya’s Arthashastra as avant-garde that established hard power as a dominant reality in politics and validated realism much earlier than Machiavelli’s The Prince.

Whilst the world recognises Chanakya's stature as a philosopher, he’s nothing more than another example of how our nation has made someone a pariah without realising what they stood for.

Chanakya is damned for obvious reasons. He is presumed to be a representative of the Brahmin mindset and Hindu culture which we have parted from a long time ago. Merely this was enough to disqualify him from the stature of a learned philosopher of the soil.

Hence, not a single reference of him is found in the country, whereas we already have buildings and campuses named after scientists and philosophers from different eras and places.

Nothing can describe this irony better than The Indus Saga , in which Aitzaz Ahsan writes in the preface: “… a nation in denial of its national identity is unfortunate. But when it chooses to adopt an extra-territorial identity, it becomes a prisoner of propaganda and myths... This is the Pakistan of today, not the Pakistan of its founders. Identity is at the heart of its problem”.

If Pakistan is to come out of its tortuous identity crisis, it needs to accept its non-Muslim history as its own. Recognising someone as important as Chanakya will have to be part of the long process.

2017 article.

Anyways though, it's not that we don't acknowledge this past. We do. It goes way further back, all the way back to the Indus Valley Civilization. It's all good, we don't despise, we acknowledge, but what do you want us to do with them?

They have their historical sites and stuff, because they're history, and our current identity coupled with our new history has nothing to do with them. Why should we celebrate this figure who has nothing to do with our current identity and history, rather than our leaders who saved us from Indians, you will find plenty of philosophers in there too.
 
.
"kautilya" or "kau dalla" even the name makes you throw up.
 
.
Philosophy is largely absent from the consciousness of humanity. There have been small periods in human history when philosophy enjoyed the popularity it deserves in parts of the world - for example, the Hellenic and Hellenistic periods, the Renaissance, and the 18th century Enlightenment. There was a small period between the late 8th century and 13th century when philosophy became popular in the Arab world following the translation of classical works, but it was largely limited to a small esoteric group. Other than these, philosophy has always been the interest of a few learned men. The era we live in is a perverted evolution of 19th century romanticism, which disproportionately privileges sentiment and intuition over reason. And as Socrates tells us, a reliance on intuition and common sense in judgements is the mark of the ignorant while the use of reason that of a philosopher.

Since the subcontinent has never had an age of reason of its own, we largely rely on our emotions and intuitions in our judgements. However, because India has had a consistent state policy on science for more than half a century now, some very small parts of the Indian society show improvement over Pakistan in this regard.​
 
Last edited:
.
Thank you for bringing him to my attention, I was unaware that he was also a Pakistani.

It seems for whatever reason, despite having a profound history of our own, we tend to mostly ignore it. At the same time Indians often proudly claim it as their own. I don't know what to make of it... In any case, I am quite happy to accept our ancient history and believe it should be taught to every Pakistani.
 
Last edited:
.
2017 article.

Anyways though, it's not that we don't acknowledge this past. We do. It goes way further back, all the way back to the Indus Valley Civilization. It's all good, we don't despise, we acknowledge, but what do you want us to do with them?

They have their historical sites and stuff, because they're history, and our current identity coupled with our new history has nothing to do with them. Why should we celebrate this figure who has nothing to do with our current identity and history, rather than our leaders who saved us from Indians, you will find plenty of philosophers in there too.

What all past do you acknowledge between the Indus Valley Civilization and Muhammad bin Qasim.
 
.
dont think kautilya maybe from Pakistan. what supporting evidence is presented in claiming his heritage from present day pakistan?

regards
 
.
Thank you for bringing him to my attention, I was unaware that he was also a Pakistani.

It seems for whatever reason, despite having a profound history of our own, we tend to mostly ignore it. At the same time Indians often proudly claim it as their own. I don't know what to make of it... In any case, I am quite happy to accept our ancient history and believe it should be taught to every Pakistanis.

Just because someone was born on the lands that now form Pakistan in the past doesn't make them native of these areas. The chap kaudalla was most probably a child of a bhayya from far eastern lands whose dad might have arrived here in some city to serve someone. The indigenous people of this land were only herders and grazers as you go back into history. People living in settled areas were mostly immigrants from far flung areas.

That mofo Raja Dahir the so-called "son of the soil" was actually a 2nd or 3rd generation offspring of a brahmin from bhayya land of "kanoj" in modern UP but now he is called "son of the soil of sindh" by some crazy people who are unaware of immigrantion policies of the past during hindu times.
 
. . .
we have far more greater Philosophical Giants who dwarfs this guy , We have Chain of Anbiya starting from Adam A.S to all way to Muhammad Pbuh, after him his thousands of Companions who most of them were some of the great people who ever walk the earth, than we have Jibreel AS and his experience with Anbiya .. We don't need this or that person to tell us which we know from our own people .
 
. .
I am going to state the obvious.

Man never existed.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom