Why is great philosopher Kautilya not part of Pakistan’s historical consciousness?

[Narcissist]

Did the Kushans ever refer to themselves as Packtyans, speak a version of pashto or did others refer to them as Packtyans, we know the Chinese called them "yuehzi" but I cannot find any source calling them Packtyan

It's never that simple. Pactyans or Pakthas were members of the early descendents, and were there well into the past.

Today's Pashtuns, just like Punjabis, Kashmiris etc are likely a combination of a number of different ancient peoples. Kushans, making Peshawar their capital, meant they were integrated into local population.

On the internet there seems to be a popular notion that until Mahmud of Ghazni, there were no pashtuns in present day KPK. This is a ludicrous assertion. Today's pashtuns in kpk have kushan ancestry, and in fact the kushan empire may have been the first pakhtun empire.

 

[django]

It's never that simple. Pactyans or Pakthas were members of the early descendents, and were there well into the past.

Today's Pashtuns, just like Punjabis, Kashmiris etc are likely a combination of a number of different ancient peoples. Kushans, making Peshawar their capital, meant they were integrated into local population.

On the internet there seems to be a popular notion that until Mahmud of Ghazni, there were no pashtuns in present day KPK. This is a ludicrous assertion. Today's pashtuns in kpk have kushan ancestry, and in fact the kushan empire may have been the first pakhtun empire.

If indeed the Pashtuns were in KPK at the time of the Kushan conquest , how does a Kushan empire become a Pashtun empire????, the fact is Kushans CONQUERED the inhabitants of Peshawar (possibly Paktye and other tribes) , they also did the same to Punjabi areas, going by this logic then Punjabis can also say that Kushan empire was a Punjabi empire, because just like the inhabitants of KPK, Punjabis will also undoubtedly have part Kushan ancestry, in fact Tajik tribes can also claim the same as those areas were the first to be conquered by the Kushans,,,, going by your logic the Nubians can claim ancient Egypt as their empire.

 

[Narcissist]

If indeed the Pashtuns were in KPK at the time of the Kushan conquest , how does a Kushan empire become a Pashtun empire????, the fact is Kushans CONQUERED the inhabitants of Peshawar (possibly Paktye and other tribes) , they also did the same to Punjabi areas, going by this logic then Punjabis can also say that Kushan empire was a Punjabi empire, because just like the inhabitants of KPK, Punjabis will also undoubtedly have part Kushan ancestry, in fact Tajik tribes can also claim the same as those areas were the first to be conquered by the Kushans,,,, going by your logic the Nubians can claim ancient Egypt as their empire.

You need to understand... the kushans settled in kpk region, and made gandhara/peshawar something. They didn't likely outnumber the natives. They settled in peshawar and assimilated with natives, and via this and the local population and alliances etc expanded an empire. It was all in kpk though (peshawar and surrounding regions). There's no way they multiplied to such an extent that they grew. Given their concentration in kpk, its just follows that pakhtuns have kushan ancestry.

Gankovsky argues they have kushan-o-ephthalite ancestry. So it's not even a new theory made up by me.

 

[Rusty]

What does it offer non-Muslims? A choice to peacefully convert and to believe what has been written down that long ago. Then you, your wife and kids are safe from the marauding herds of believers who insist that others also believe in whatever they believe. What makes it particularly appealing is that, no Muslim would ever be allowed hold your wife and kids (including boys) as bounties of war in a harem! What makes the offer even harder to resist is that, 6 dozens of virgins will be delivered to you directly. At your doorsteps!

If you don't convert peacefully, well then you, of all people, should know the drill!

Still better than killing people over eating beef. Now that is straight up full retard.

 

[Mian Babban]

The present-day Attock of Punjab was merely an extension of Gandhara kingdom which corresponded to Peshawar valley. In fact Chinese traveler Hiuen Tsang, who visited Gandhara, says that the kingdom on the east was bounded by river Indus, and he also informs us that Peshawar was its capital . At the time of his visit Gandhara was governed from Kapisa of present-day Afghanistan ;

@Narcissist @xairhossi

 

[DragonHunter]

this is just going to turn into another

no you are hindu
no we are indus
no you were enslaved
no we chose freely
no you are dravidian
no we are aryan
no you embraced foreign ideology
no we did not

Let the games begin.

LOL this is why one shouldn't argue with brainwashed people.

if Pakistanis make a fake theory attached to Indus civilization than they should be superior to Saudis who were only killer tribes living in tents, but why Pakistanis are treated as slave in Saudis?
I heard from a Muslim here in India who luckily saved back his life from a Saudi, he said they even can't let us drink the same water that they do.

 

[El Sidd]

LOL this is why one shouldn't argue with brainwashed people.

if Pakistanis make a fake theory attached to Indus civilization than they should be superior to Saudis who were only killer tribes living in tents, but why Pakistanis are treated as slave in Saudis?
I heard from a Muslim here in India who luckily saved back his life from a Saudi, he said they even can't let us drink the same water that they do.

lol
Man that is just how they roll. They are gifted that way. Roll back the clock 80 odd years and they were dying of famine and the sub continent provided for them with charity.

 

[Tshering22]

Before pointing out why Kautilya is not taught in Pakistan,w e

We should accept Pakistan's policy of ignoring him. Jinnah's speech made that clear. Their country, their rules.

Why would Pakistan even consider him?

Chanakya/Kautilya or Vishnugupt as his real name was, was from modern day Bihar. True that India then under the Mauryans extended till beyond Afghanistan of today, but that gives them no reason to support or even understand him.

Pakistan chose not to associate itself with the legacy of Arthashastra or other literature from that era simply because it chose to embrace the Middle Eastern way of life through religion, scripture, thought orientation and society.

Most Pakistanis have excellent knowledge on year by year as to what happened in Arabian peninsula since 500 A.D., in Iran since the fall of the Persian Empire to Islamic conquests since 7th century or in Turkey since the foundation of Ottoman Empire in 12th century. This is simply because Pakistanis as a nation and as a culture rejected what they were and adopted what they felt that was necessary as per their community leaders at that point of time.

While there might be individual scholars who study these things but as a society Pakistan has no keenness to pursue this region's history with an open mind.

 

[django]

You need to understand... the kushans settled in kpk region, and made gandhara/peshawar something. They didn't likely outnumber the natives. They settled in peshawar and assimilated with natives, and via this and the local population and alliances etc expanded an empire. It was all in kpk though (peshawar and surrounding regions). There's no way they multiplied to such an extent that they grew. Given their concentration in kpk, its just follows that pakhtuns have kushan ancestry.

Gankovsky argues they have kushan-o-ephthalite ancestry. So it's not even a new theory made up by me.

But the same can also be said of other regions they conquered, why is the case for the Pashtuns unique?

 

[Narcissist]

But the same can also be said of other regions they conquered, why is the case for the Pashtuns unique?

The answer is in your quote. Go read it again.

 

[padamchen]

Before pointing out why Kautilya is not taught in Pakistan,w e


Why would Pakistan even consider him?

Chanakya/Kautilya or Vishnugupt as his real name was, was from modern day Bihar. True that India then under the Mauryans extended till beyond Afghanistan of today, but that gives them no reason to support or even understand him.

Pakistan chose not to associate itself with the legacy of Arthashastra or other literature from that era simply because it chose to embrace the Middle Eastern way of life through religion, scripture, thought orientation and society.

Most Pakistanis have excellent knowledge on year by year as to what happened in Arabian peninsula since 500 A.D., in Iran since the fall of the Persian Empire to Islamic conquests since 7th century or in Turkey since the foundation of Ottoman Empire in 12th century. This is simply because Pakistanis as a nation and as a culture rejected what they were and adopted what they felt that was necessary as per their community leaders at that point of time.

While there might be individual scholars who study these things but as a society Pakistan has no keenness to pursue this region's history with an open mind.

Good post.

Cheers, Doc

 

[django]

The answer is in your quote. Go read it again.

So the Kushan Empire was Tajik, Scythian, Tocahrian....Pashtun, Punjabi empire or solely Pashtun, my dear chap what is it???

 

[kadamba-warrior]

Still better than killing people over eating beef. Now that is straight up full retard.

You would kill for meat too. Just from a different animal. And there is nothing morally superior about professing to stop eating pork than eating beef! Both the practices are absurd and should have no place in 21st Century!

But it is just that you guys are not used to holding mirror to yourself for the same bad practices that you make fun of others!

 

[Rusty]

You would kill for meat too. Just from a different animal. And there is nothing morally superior about professing to stop eating pork than eating beef! Both the practices are absurd and should have no place in 21st Century!

But it is just that you guys are not used to holding mirror to yourself for the same bad practices that you make fun of others!

What the hell are you even saying?
There is nothing moral or immoral about eating meat. Humans are omnivores, we need meat, we evolved to eat it. If you want to deny your human nature then that's up to you. But to kill about human for doing something that is natural...... Now that is 10 levels of F-ed up.

Indians are the ones who need to hold a mirror and ask is it okay to kill a human over a cow..... Unfortunately we already know the Indian answer to that.

 

[kadamba-warrior]

What the hell are you even saying?
There is nothing moral or immoral about eating meat. Humans are omnivores, we need meat, we evolved to eat it. If you want to deny your human nature then that's up to you. But to kill about human for doing something that is natural...... Now that is 10 levels of F-ed up.

Indians are the ones who need to hold a mirror and ask is it okay to kill a human over a cow..... Unfortunately we already know the Indian answer to that.

Comprehension issues? I never said killing anybody over beef or pork is halal.

But isn't it rich for somebody who gets worked up with pork as much, if not more, as Hindus for beef?

Banning beef is absurd in the 21st century, but you guys conveniently ignore your own absurdity when it comes to eating pork! How is that for a mirror?

If some good-for-nothings killed somebody for beef, there are several instances of Muslims killing people for eating pork or those that are suspected of feeding them pork. In any case, you guys don't even need somebody to be eating beef to lynch him. Just a mere allegation of some kind of blasphemy is enough for the heads to roll - literally.

So get off your high horse.