Why Iran needs advanced Air Force when SAMs have got the dominance?

[Hack-Hook]

This is all about A2/AD capability of Iranian forces and @AmirPatriot has opened an excellent thread with an informative article about it. Briefly, Iran has given the role all up to BMS to destroy enemy's bases within the range stopping their flights, anti ship capability with cruise, ballistic, air launched and ground launched missiles and the range of this capability can exceed more than 2000 Km with Sejjil2 BM, almost 750 Km with Zolfiqar BM and more than 300 Km with Khalije fars/Horomoz anti ship/radar ballistic missiles. Submarine launched anti ship cruise missile is recently added to Iranian arsenal, which is outstanding in case of raising the A2/AD range for Iran.

If Iran adds anti ship capability to Soumar cruise missile, with deploying it to a Mowj class corvette, the range of anti access capability would exceed more than 2500 Km from firing spot, you can add it to range of that corvette and how long can it sail.
@AmirPatriot thanks to you Bro, now I know more before. Can you please tell us that which Iranian sub can carry and launch a cruise missile with Soumar dimension? Thanks in advance


Moreover we are not so far from developing a heavy class fighter jet and as DM Hatami said, developing a heavy fighter is on agenda of defense ministry, hopefully though

Soomar by design can attack ships but its not suitable for the role as it can't fly as low as a normal antiship cruise missile. What we may hope is they make another cruise missile based on Soomar but they change its flight pattern and its onboard computer to make it more specialized for attacking enemy ships.

 

[AmirPatriot]

This is all about A2/AD capability of Iranian forces and @AmirPatriot has opened an excellent thread with an informative article about it. Briefly, Iran has given the role all up to BMS to destroy enemy's bases within the range stopping their flights, anti ship capability with cruise, ballistic, air launched and ground launched missiles and the range of this capability can exceed more than 2000 Km with Sejjil2 BM, almost 750 Km with Zolfiqar BM and more than 300 Km with Khalije fars/Horomoz anti ship/radar ballistic missiles. Submarine launched anti ship cruise missile is recently added to Iranian arsenal, which is outstanding in case of raising the A2/AD range for Iran.

If Iran adds anti ship capability to Soumar cruise missile, with deploying it to a Mowj class corvette, the range of anti access capability would exceed more than 2500 Km from firing spot, you can add it to range of that corvette and how long can it sail.
@AmirPatriot thanks to you Bro, now I know more before. Can you please tell us that which Iranian sub can carry and launch a cruise missile with Soumar dimension? Thanks in advance


Moreover we are not so far from developing a heavy class fighter jet and as DM Hatami said, developing a heavy fighter is on agenda of defense ministry, hopefully though

A Soumar would just fit into a standard 533 mm torpedo tube, but IMO it would be unwise to try and do this. Not only because the conversion would be difficult and costly, but also because submarine launched missiles are very visible and loud (on sonar) and would put the submarine at considerable risk, compared to relatively quiet and stealthy torpedoes.

Moreover, Iran is copying a Russian SLCM, which isn't based on the Kh-55. Lastly, to extend the range of detection and targeting for these missiles so far beyond Iran's borders would be a considerable challenge.

 

[Arminkh]

Because Air Defense systems by themselves WILL NEVER be sufficient to Defend Air Space!

If your SAM missiles have a range of 100km your enemies will build an Air to Ground missile to go after that site with a range of 120km
If you build a SAM missile with a range of 200km then in response anyone that wants to attack you will build an Air to ground missiles with a range of 250km

And at the end of the day it's as simple as that!

On paper SAM may seem superior but in a real war SAM's are NOT superior to fighter jet because fighters & a ready Air Force will have far greater survivability than fix sites and less mobile sites on the ground

You are ignoring the fact that the air to ground missiles can also be intercepted. And with all the developments in AI and radar and vision systems, achieving this goad has become easier. They are not like ballistic missiles moving at multiple times the speed of sound. Most of them are as slow as a passenger aircraft.

I personally think jet fighters are no longer a defensive weapon. They are necessary for offense but when it comes to defence, SAMs are cheaper and at minimum have the same accuracy of an air to air missiles that a jet fighter would fire towards incoming enemy fighters.

 

[AmirPatriot]

You are ignoring the fact that the air to ground missiles can also be intercepted.

If you only rely on air defences even this can be overwhelmed with sheer numbers. A single F/A-18E/F can carry up to 6 AGM-88 HARMs...

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

These days air launched stand off cruise missiles have more range than SAM, so that is why fighter jets are still needed.

 

[DavidSling]

Forgot to mention that Israel hitted 12 syrian targets afterwards, including 4 SAM batteries

 

[veg]

Forgot to mention that Israel hitted 12 syrian targets afterwards, including 4 SAM batteries

Syria has not got the advanced integrated anti air defence system. Despite this, still they were able to compel the Israeli fighter jets to stay only in the Israeli air space and fire only from there. This means, Israeli fighter jets were not able to strike deep in the Syria. Moreover, despite being old, still Syrian system were able to intercept many Israeli fired missiles.

Secondly, even if Syria had got couple of dozens of Mig-29 or Su-27 etc. still they could not have saved Syria against the incoming Israeli missiles.

At maximum, Israeli fighter jets worked as "Delivery" system for the missiles from the air. This role could be played by any Drone too like Karar drone.

 

[DavidSling]

Syria has not got the advanced integrated anti air defence system. Despite this, still they were able to compel the Israeli fighter jets to stay only in the Israeli air space and fire only from there. This means, Israeli fighter jets were not able to strike deep in the Syria. Moreover, despite being old, still Syrian system were able to intercept many Israeli fired missiles.

Secondly, even if Syria had got couple of dozens of Mig-29 or Su-27 etc. still they could not have saved Syria against the incoming Israeli missiles.

At maximum, Israeli fighter jets worked as "Delivery" system for the missiles from the air. This role could be played by any Drone too like Karar drone.

Syrian claim they intercepted missiles, altho no proof regarding the subject has been shown.
Israel commited around 1000 missions in Syria this year alone, some by airplanes, some by drones, some by other means.
Some in deep Syrian territory, some ain't
This isn't the first time Syrian missiles have been fired toward Israeli assets, and they just had abit luck.
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5107305,00.html

 

[VEVAK]

You are ignoring the fact that the air to ground missiles can also be intercepted. And with all the developments in AI and radar and vision systems, achieving this goad has become easier. They are not like ballistic missiles moving at multiple times the speed of sound. Most of them are as slow as a passenger aircraft.

I personally think jet fighters are no longer a defensive weapon. They are necessary for offense but when it comes to defence, SAMs are cheaper and at minimum have the same accuracy of an air to air missiles that a jet fighter would fire towards incoming enemy fighters.

What you choose to believe has NOTHING to do with reality! Your just trying to make up for our governments inability to upgrade Iran's Air Force with a belief system! And if you want prof of it all you have to do is look at Iran's attempt to put Air to Air weapons on the Karrar! And Iran's request for Russian Air Support in Syria!

Yes Air to ground weapons can be intercepted & SAM system can be overwhelmed!

How many targets do you think a high powered optical systems can lock on at any given time?

And so far Israeli's have had far more success conducting strikes than the Syrians have had success intercepting Israeli aircraft or Israeli air to ground weapons!
Is it possible to intercept air to ground weapons? YES! Russians have proved that in Syria but at the end of the day it's far easier to overwhelming or fooling systems capable on intercepting air to ground weapons!


Iran is larger than U.K., France, Germany & Italy combined and if you believe Air Defense systems by themselves can protect Iran's Air Space you would have to also believe that Israeli Air Space is impenetrable due to a vast concentration of a variety of Air Defense systems in a tiny country and that's NOTHING but a delusion!

And weapons are weapons it's just a matter of how you choose to use them!

In a country the size of Iran Aircrafts will always be vital for defense whether you use them for offensive or defensives purposes because with Aircrafts in a country the size of Iran whether they are UAV's, Fighter Jets or Helicopters you have a platform that can be airborne making them targets that are far more complicated to takeout from long distances