Why Iran needs advanced Air Force when SAMs have got the dominance?

[veg]

Syria destroyed the Israeli F-16 using the old tech of 1960s.
After that, no Israeli fighter jet entered the Syrian airspace, but they are firing the missiles from the Israeli airspace.

People are often saying that Iran needs to spend multiple Billion dollars to buy advanced fight jets in order to make air force stronger.

And I wonder how much benefit these fighter jets are going to bring to Iran?

It seems to me that era of Tanks is almost coming to an end due to the advanced anti-tank missiles.

Similarly, it seems that era of fighter jets is also coming to an end after the SAMs have got the domination upon them in the skies.

Today dog fights are also not taking place, but the kills are made only through radars and BVR missiles. So, why do we need the fighter jets with high speed and fly by wire etc.

This job could also be done by any big size Drone with big enough radar and big enough BVR missile.

Would it not be better for Iran to invest this money in advanced combat Drones with larger radars and advanced missiles?

 

[Armchair-General]

Never put all your eggs in one basket. SAMs and jets have different roles.

 

[Aramagedon]

I posted this news yesterday.

Iran’s IRGC Moving toward Using More Drones, Helicopters: Commander

TEHRAN (Tasnim) – Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) Commander Major General Mohammad Ali Jafari announced that the IRGC Ground Force plans to boost use of drones and helicopters in its operations.



Speaking to reporters on the sidelines of a ceremony to unveil IRGC’s new military gears in Tehran on Wednesday, Major General Jafari said, “Less than two years ago, we decided to equip the IRGC Ground Force with helicopters…”

He added that with the support of the IRGC Ground Force, three helicopter units have been constructed and prepared to be used for operations.

Given the decisive role of drones and helicopters in missions, the IRGC Ground Force is moving toward using the items in various operations, including heliborne and reconnaissance operations.

Iranian military experts and technicians have in recent years made great headways in manufacturing a broad range of indigenous equipment, making the armed forces self-sufficient in the arms sphere.

Tehran has always assured other nations that its military might poses no threat to the regional countries, saying that the Islamic Republic’s defense doctrine is entirely based on deterrence.

 

[khanmubashir]

Syria destroyed the Israeli F-16 using the old tech of 1960s.
After that, no Israeli fighter jet entered the Syrian airspace, but they are firing the missiles from the Israeli airspace.

People are often saying that Iran needs to spend multiple Billion dollars to buy advanced fight jets in order to make air force stronger.

And I wonder how much benefit these fighter jets are going to bring to Iran?

It seems to me that era of Tanks is almost coming to an end due to the advanced anti-tank missiles.

Similarly, it seems that era of fighter jets is also coming to an end after the SAMs have got the domination upon them in the skies.

Today dog fights are also not taking place, but the kills are made only through radars and BVR missiles. So, why do we need the fighter jets with high speed and fly by wire etc.

This job could also be done by any big size Drone with big enough radar and big enough BVR missile.

Would it not be better for Iran to invest this money in advanced combat Drones with larger radars and advanced missiles?

Syrian managed to shoot one f16 out of 100s of strike mission uptil now if u check previous air wars like Serbian and first USA Iraq war sams could only pose a limited threat to jets majority of em did there mission without loss and with new countermeasures this would remain so othet wise USA NATO and Russian Chinese all wouldn't be spending so much on jets

 

[veg]

Never put all your eggs in one basket. SAMs and jets have different roles.

It sounds good.

Anyhow, please remember it is not jets vs SAMs, but it is jets vs SAMs+Drones.

For example, the "Interceptor Role".

For one Interceptor Jet, Iran could have SAMs and perhaps 5-6 dozen stealth combat drones (like Sofar-e-Mahi), and a swarm of dozens of other low tech combat drones, with all of them carrying air to air missiles.

For reconnaissance role, again swarm of low+ high tech drones win hands down over few Jets.

For offensive roles, perhaps there fighter jets are mostly needed. Nevertheless, these fight jets should be able to face the enemy's SAMs. Life has become difficult for the fighter jets after the introduction of advanced radars and SAMs.

Syrian managed to shoot one f16 out of 100s of strike mission uptil now if u check previous air wars like Serbian and first USA Iraq war sams could only pose a limited threat to jets majority of em did there mission without loss and with new countermeasures this would remain so othet wise USA NATO and Russian Chinese all wouldn't be spending so much on jets

May be.
But I have this impression that US fought against very low tech armies who got no real advanced SAMs.
And Israeli fighter jets are not directly entering the Syrian airspace, but they are firing the missiles while remaining in Israeli or Lebanon air space.
Turkey easily shot down the Russian jet. While Syria shot down the Turkey's fighter jet.

 

[Kompromat]

Exactly why you need a good goal keeper and a good striker.

 

[Tokhme khar]

oh, so the trillion dollars the USAF just spent on the F-35 were not needed because apparently the Sm-3 and Patriots have the job all covered?.......lol

or since the S-300's/ 400's are so god damn dashing why the fvck we need the billions on the Su-57 program? lol

How about spotting the idiot from a mile away joker?

I think your response was more idiotic and childish.

If you disagree with his view point, you should say why, not behave like a troll.

 

[313ghazi]

Syria destroyed the Israeli F-16 using the old tech of 1960s.
After that, no Israeli fighter jet entered the Syrian airspace, but they are firing the missiles from the Israeli airspace.

People are often saying that Iran needs to spend multiple Billion dollars to buy advanced fight jets in order to make air force stronger.

And I wonder how much benefit these fighter jets are going to bring to Iran?

It seems to me that era of Tanks is almost coming to an end due to the advanced anti-tank missiles.

Similarly, it seems that era of fighter jets is also coming to an end after the SAMs have got the domination upon them in the skies.

Today dog fights are also not taking place, but the kills are made only through radars and BVR missiles. So, why do we need the fighter jets with high speed and fly by wire etc.

This job could also be done by any big size Drone with big enough radar and big enough BVR missile.

Would it not be better for Iran to invest this money in advanced combat Drones with larger radars and advanced missiles?

I wouldn't work long term. This has been tried in the past, it was Arab strategy during the 60's/70's and it failed. Admittedly SAM technology has improved, but as they say in the UK "One Swallow doesn't make a summer". Israel has been bombing Syria without response for years, the fact Syria responded and targeted an Israeli F-16 probably took them by surprise. Syria probably retaliated as it knows Israel is unlikely to wage war against it right now (nobody wants to get involved in this quagmire), so targeting an Israeli plane now was low risk.

In the future if Israeli's want access to Syria airspace they can use a whole suite of technology like Radar jamming, anti Radar missiles, stealth technology, cruise missiles etc all to target Syrian air defences before going into Syrian territory. Fact is SAM's are also vulnerable.

Now you later on suggested you can use drones for airstrikes - you're right and increasing this is the case, but they will not replace fighter jets yet. Most Drones carry one or two short range missiles, fighter jets can carry typically 4-6 missiles, with ranges upto 300-400km, or bombs with much higher payload. They can also defend themselves if engaged by enemy aircraft, drones cannot. Fighter jets are also faster then drones and can travel further right now.

In the future what we are likely to see is UCAV's, ie drones that are designed to be fighter jets as well. They may be remotely controlled, they may have AI running them, but attack via the air is still plan A for any attack.

 

[Fafnir]

Syrian managed to shoot one f16 out of 100s of strike mission uptil now if u check previous air wars like Serbian and first USA Iraq war sams could only pose a limited threat to jets majority of em did there mission without loss and with new countermeasures this would remain so othet wise USA NATO and Russian Chinese all wouldn't be spending so much on jets

Yes,but these were elderly or compromised legacy era systems,nato/us has never had to go up against late cold war or post cold war systems like the s300/variants and these would prove a very different prospect entirely.

 

[Cthulhu]

Syria destroyed the Israeli F-16 using the old tech of 1960s.
After that, no Israeli fighter jet entered the Syrian airspace, but they are firing the missiles from the Israeli airspace.

People are often saying that Iran needs to spend multiple Billion dollars to buy advanced fight jets in order to make air force stronger.

And I wonder how much benefit these fighter jets are going to bring to Iran?

It seems to me that era of Tanks is almost coming to an end due to the advanced anti-tank missiles.

Similarly, it seems that era of fighter jets is also coming to an end after the SAMs have got the domination upon them in the skies.

Today dog fights are also not taking place, but the kills are made only through radars and BVR missiles. So, why do we need the fighter jets with high speed and fly by wire etc.

This job could also be done by any big size Drone with big enough radar and big enough BVR missile.

Would it not be better for Iran to invest this money in advanced combat Drones with larger radars and advanced missiles?

Bro you're wasting your time here, believe me.

 

[Hack-Hook]

It sounds good.

Anyhow, please remember it is not jets vs SAMs, but it is jets vs SAMs+Drones.

For example, the "Interceptor Role".

For one Interceptor Jet, Iran could have SAMs and perhaps 5-6 dozen stealth combat drones (like Sofar-e-Mahi), and a swarm of dozens of other low tech combat drones, with all of them carrying air to air missiles.

For reconnaissance role, again swarm of low+ high tech drones win hands down over few Jets.

For offensive roles, perhaps there fighter jets are mostly needed. Nevertheless, these fight jets should be able to face the enemy's SAMs. Life has become difficult for the fighter jets after the introduction of advanced radars and SAMs.



May be.
But I have this impression that US fought against very low tech armies who got no real advanced SAMs.
And Israeli fighter jets are not directly entering the Syrian airspace, but they are firing the missiles while remaining in Israeli or Lebanon air space.
Turkey easily shot down the Russian jet. While Syria shot down the Turkey's fighter jet.

For intercepting role I won't think an inherently slow design like sofreh-mahi is a logical choice . when it come to intercepting targets I believe faster moving drone like Karrar has better chance.

By the way if you want target slow enemy drones or helicopter then that's another matter.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Syria destroyed the Israeli F-16 using the old tech of 1960s.
After that, no Israeli fighter jet entered the Syrian airspace, but they are firing the missiles from the Israeli airspace.

People are often saying that Iran needs to spend multiple Billion dollars to buy advanced fight jets in order to make air force stronger.

And I wonder how much benefit these fighter jets are going to bring to Iran?

It seems to me that era of Tanks is almost coming to an end due to the advanced anti-tank missiles.

Similarly, it seems that era of fighter jets is also coming to an end after the SAMs have got the domination upon them in the skies.

Today dog fights are also not taking place, but the kills are made only through radars and BVR missiles. So, why do we need the fighter jets with high speed and fly by wire etc.

This job could also be done by any big size Drone with big enough radar and big enough BVR missile.

Would it not be better for Iran to invest this money in advanced combat Drones with larger radars and advanced missiles?

The thing with warfare is u can't build a platform for a singular task. It's just a recipe for disaster and just a plain waste of money.

If a fighter jet isn't designed to be able to dog fight(bcuz it's obsolete according to u) and only with the role of BVR...what happens when that fighter jet runs into a dog fight(wvr) situation? Should it just be a sitting duck? Or should nations stop acquiring fighter jets bcuz of the threat of SAMs? Should tanks be scrapped bcuz of the threat of advanced ATGMs?

No one can deny the important role that tanks and fighter jets play...they r not going away anytime soon. What u r referring to is indeed a problem such as advanced SAMs/ATGMs/etc but this just means that fighter jets/tanks/etc need effective counters.

For advanced SAMs there's the option of...
- Wild Weasel types of jets
- Stand off weapons
- Stealth
- Decoys(I forget the name but US has a concept drone that shows the radar signature of a jet)

For advanced ATGMs there is...
- Active Protection systems
- Passive Protection systems

...not to mention the various different types of armors...and potentially the whole tank can be redesigned(the newer tanks in development) due to the effectiveness of ATGMs in top attack mode.

It's just like the classic sword and armor thing. Armies didn't stop wearing armors just bcuz a better/newer/more advanced sword could defeat it. They made better armor to withstand that sword...and so another even better sword was created to defeat that new armor...so on and so forth. In short tanks and fighter jets are here to stay in one form or another.

 

[Tokhme khar]

Its like talking to a child.......lol

The thing with warfare is u can't build a platform for a singular task. It's just a recipe for disaster and just a plain waste of money.

If a fighter jet isn't designed to be able to dog fight(bcuz it's obsolete according to u) and only with the role of BVR...what happens when that fighter jet runs into a dog fight(wvr) situation? Should it just be a sitting duck? Or should nations stop acquiring fighter jets bcuz of the threat of SAMs? Should tanks be scrapped bcuz of the threat of advanced ATGMs?

No one can deny the important role that tanks and fighter jets play...they r not going away anytime soon. What u r referring to is indeed a problem such as advanced SAMs/ATGMs/etc but this just means that fighter jets/tanks/etc need effective counters.

For advanced SAMs there's the option of...
- Wild Weasel types of jets
- Stand off weapons
- Stealth
- Decoys(I forget the name but US has a concept drone that shows the radar signature of a jet)

For advanced ATGMs there is...
- Active Protection systems
- Passive Protection systems

...not to mention the various different types of armors...and potentially the whole tank can be redesigned(the newer tanks in development) due to the effectiveness of ATGMs in top attack mode.

It's just like the classic sword and armor thing. Armies didn't stop wearing armors just bcuz a better/newer/more advanced sword could defeat it. They made better armor to withstand that sword...and so another even better sword was created to defeat that new armor...so on and so forth. In short tanks and fighter jets are here to stay in one form or another.

 

[VEVAK]

Syria destroyed the Israeli F-16 using the old tech of 1960s.
After that, no Israeli fighter jet entered the Syrian airspace, but they are firing the missiles from the Israeli airspace.

People are often saying that Iran needs to spend multiple Billion dollars to buy advanced fight jets in order to make air force stronger.

And I wonder how much benefit these fighter jets are going to bring to Iran?

It seems to me that era of Tanks is almost coming to an end due to the advanced anti-tank missiles.

Similarly, it seems that era of fighter jets is also coming to an end after the SAMs have got the domination upon them in the skies.

Today dog fights are also not taking place, but the kills are made only through radars and BVR missiles. So, why do we need the fighter jets with high speed and fly by wire etc.

This job could also be done by any big size Drone with big enough radar and big enough BVR missile.

Would it not be better for Iran to invest this money in advanced combat Drones with larger radars and advanced missiles?

Because Air Defense systems by themselves WILL NEVER be sufficient to Defend Air Space!

If your SAM missiles have a range of 100km your enemies will build an Air to Ground missile to go after that site with a range of 120km
If you build a SAM missile with a range of 200km then in response anyone that wants to attack you will build an Air to ground missiles with a range of 250km

And at the end of the day it's as simple as that!

On paper SAM may seem superior but in a real war SAM's are NOT superior to fighter jet because fighters & a ready Air Force will have far greater survivability than fix sites and less mobile sites on the ground

 

[Muhammed45]

Syria destroyed the Israeli F-16 using the old tech of 1960s.
After that, no Israeli fighter jet entered the Syrian airspace, but they are firing the missiles from the Israeli airspace.

People are often saying that Iran needs to spend multiple Billion dollars to buy advanced fight jets in order to make air force stronger.

And I wonder how much benefit these fighter jets are going to bring to Iran?

It seems to me that era of Tanks is almost coming to an end due to the advanced anti-tank missiles.

Similarly, it seems that era of fighter jets is also coming to an end after the SAMs have got the domination upon them in the skies.

Today dog fights are also not taking place, but the kills are made only through radars and BVR missiles. So, why do we need the fighter jets with high speed and fly by wire etc.

This job could also be done by any big size Drone with big enough radar and big enough BVR missile.

Would it not be better for Iran to invest this money in advanced combat Drones with larger radars and advanced missiles?

This is all about A2/AD capability of Iranian forces and @AmirPatriot has opened an excellent thread with an informative article about it. Briefly, Iran has given the role all up to BMS to destroy enemy's bases within the range stopping their flights, anti ship capability with cruise, ballistic, air launched and ground launched missiles and the range of this capability can exceed more than 2000 Km with Sejjil2 BM, almost 750 Km with Zolfiqar BM and more than 300 Km with Khalije fars/Horomoz anti ship/radar ballistic missiles. Submarine launched anti ship cruise missile is recently added to Iranian arsenal, which is outstanding in case of raising the A2/AD range for Iran.

If Iran adds anti ship capability to Soumar cruise missile, with deploying it to a Mowj class corvette, the range of anti access capability would exceed more than 2500 Km from firing spot, you can add it to range of that corvette and how long can it sail.
@AmirPatriot thanks to you Bro, now I know more before. Can you please tell us that which Iranian sub can carry and launch a cruise missile with Soumar dimension? Thanks in advance


Moreover we are not so far from developing a heavy class fighter jet and as DM Hatami said, developing a heavy fighter is on agenda of defense ministry, hopefully though