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why iran must stop calling themself shias for peace between muslim countries

The problem isnt owning Audi, its a good car but just being remembered as the guy owning a Audi besides an Engineer and Doctor.

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I would gladly exchange my job for your audi :/
 
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Nowhere i mentioned about any hirarchy. it was prediction in Bible about 12 princes from Ishmael linage. same way there are predictions about Prophet Muhammad pbuh. In Islam All appointments are from Allah swt.

At No Point in Quran or Hadith there is any mention of appointment of above caliphs from Allah swt. (except Imam Ali a.s.). Self-declared caliphs, self declared amirul momineen, self declared khadim haramein.

You are complaining Just like an ISIS supporter, who are you to refuse their self declared caliph Abu Bakr Baghdadi and their Islamic State?

these rulers ruled arabia during their times. All our Imams lived during the sunni rule. Many occasions sayyids the descendants of Prophet pbuh revolted against corrupt rulers. we lived under these these self-declared Rulers. Shias lived under tough condition and suppression under sunni rule and we continue to expose their corruption and war mongering.

It was your inquiry about why follow 12 Imams. you already got my reply that Shias Believe in appointment by Prophet pbuh. In Shia Islamic sculptures there are plenty of Hadiths. The Will of Imam Ali when he handed over his Authority to Imam Hasan a.s. If there is book there is a leader which unfortunately u do not have.
what rubish you are talking about.
first of all only Prophets are appointed by Allah not caliphs.
caliphs were appointed by human.
secondly tell me where in Quran there is anything about appointment of Ali (RA) as caliph?

the problem with biased shias like you is that you guys insult the sahaba e Rasool in your iranian love but when someone show you your true face you start crying. and stop your lies about Quran. the first three caliphs of Islam were duely accepted by fourth Caliph Hazrat Ali(RA) and they were not self appointed. in fact shias are disregarding the decision of Hazrat Ali by refusing to consider the first three caliphs of Islam. @Zarvan

Put Shia Sunni aside look at this beautiful Sunni mosque in Iran:

View attachment 375097
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View attachment 375101



Prophet (pbuh) has told us. The Q ain't why we follow Imam Ali (as) the Q is why you don't follow him?

thank you for posting the pic of mosque. by the way how many sunni mosques are there in Iran.
as far as following Hazrat Ali (RA) we also respect and follow him so there is no disagreement.
 
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Why do you believe so ? who told you to do so? under which system, ruling you believe that?

We believe that because the prophet of Islam told us too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_pond_of_Khumm
And because we refuse to follow the people that tortured our Prophets daughter & we refuse to follow those who exiled, tortured & killed the grandchildren of the Prophet of Islam!

Your ignorance about history is the only reason YOU DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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We believe that because the prophet of Islam told us too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_pond_of_Khumm
And because we refuse to follow the people that tortured our Prophets daughter & we refuse to follow those who exiled, tortured & killed the grandchildren of the Prophet of Islam!

Your ignorance about history is the only reason YOU DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From your own source please read carefully.
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"The current knowledge of Muhammad’s life is mainly based on sources such as Ibn Hisham, al-Ṭabarī, Ibn Saʿd, etc. that are silent over Muhammad’s stop at Ghadir Khumm. Even when the writers mentioned the event, they said nothing about his speech. Similarly, western biographers of Muhammad make no mention of what happened at Ghadir Khumm. However the account of this event has been recorded by al-Yakubi who is famous for his sympathy for Shiite cause, and it appears in canonical collections as in the Musnad of Ibn Hanbal. Some Sunnis scholars do not deny Muhammad’s declaration about Ali at Ghadir Khumm, but they argue that he was simply urging the audience to hold his cousin and son-in-law in high esteem and affection.[1]
 
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From your own source please read carefully.
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"The current knowledge of Muhammad’s life is mainly based on sources such as Ibn Hisham, al-Ṭabarī, Ibn Saʿd, etc. that are silent over Muhammad’s stop at Ghadir Khumm. Even when the writers mentioned the event, they said nothing about his speech. Similarly, western biographers of Muhammad make no mention of what happened at Ghadir Khumm. However the account of this event has been recorded by al-Yakubi who is famous for his sympathy for Shiite cause, and it appears in canonical collections as in the Musnad of Ibn Hanbal. Some Sunnis scholars do not deny Muhammad’s declaration about Ali at Ghadir Khumm, but they argue that he was simply urging the audience to hold his cousin and son-in-law in high esteem and affection.[1]

upload_2017-2-6_15-23-34.png


So yea IT happened!!!!!!! YOU CAN ACT like it didn't but everyone knows it happened!!!!!!!!
And of course people make up excuses for themselves to gain power!!!!!!!!!! Ali himself accepted to back off to stop a division but that wasn't even enough and they assassinated him & went after his children!!!!!!
That's pathetic!!!!!! And so we refuse them and all those responsible and as an act of defiance & so their memory is never forgotten we see him and his children who happen the to be the grandchildren of the prophet of Islam as our 1st 3 disciples!!!!
Cry over it all you want but that ain't going to change!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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View attachment 375148

So yea IT happened!!!!!!! YOU CAN ACT like it didn't but everyone knows it happened!!!!!!!!
And of course people make up excuses for themselves to gain power!!!!!!!!!! Ali himself accepted to back off to stop a division but that wasn't even enough and they assassinated him & went after his children!!!!!!
That's pathetic!!!!!! And so we refuse them and all those responsible and as an act of defiance & so their memory is never forgotten we see him and his children who happen the to be the grandchildren of the prophet of Islam as our 1st 3 disciples!!!!
Cry over it all you want but that ain't going to change!!!!!!!!!!!!

THEY? and who are they? And who are you when you say "we and our"?.

was there any shiaism during the life of Prophet (PBUH)? what does a shia mean? :)
 
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@Kaptaan

http://www.interorga-sicherheit.de/
This was his company,with a partner,they sold it.
He didnt want people to know which is understandable.
Tovbe tovbe,:tsk::tsk::tsk:
So it was a security company? Our modest friend @xenon54 was a company director. I always felt he was a mature responsible sort of chap. This confirms this. So our friend must be well off. Good, we need members of substance here - too many wannabe cheapskates don't do PDF much good.

I am also on my third company formation - I might share that with @xenon54 sometime but I keep it close to my chest. UK is a very politically correct country and I often say things here that are very un-PC. Look what happened to the last British Pakistani who let it rip on cyberspace. He lost his job and had to apologize.

And no amount of 'taube, taube' saved him.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/coronation-street-viewers-lash-out-9205627

@VEVAK Spring Onion is a lady. Take it easy.
 
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From your own source please read carefully.
---------------------------------------------------------
"The current knowledge of Muhammad’s life is mainly based on sources such as Ibn Hisham, al-Ṭabarī, Ibn Saʿd, etc. that are silent over Muhammad’s stop at Ghadir Khumm. Even when the writers mentioned the event, they said nothing about his speech. Similarly, western biographers of Muhammad make no mention of what happened at Ghadir Khumm. However the account of this event has been recorded by al-Yakubi who is famous for his sympathy for Shiite cause, and it appears in canonical collections as in the Musnad of Ibn Hanbal. Some Sunnis scholars do not deny Muhammad’s declaration about Ali at Ghadir Khumm, but they argue that he was simply urging the audience to hold his cousin and son-in-law in high esteem and affection.[1]

Even we accept that the prophet (PBUH) urged the audience to hold his cousin and son-in-law in high esteem and affection people didn't respect his request as we witnessed how he was treated after prophet departure.
Moreover at least there is en event by the name of Ghadir Khom regarding Imam Ali (as) Imamet while there is nothing about the other caliphs .
Before Ghadir Khom , Prophet told people another Hadith that is known as narration of 2 heavy things:

I am leaving among you something which is very important and should be followed, you will not go astray if you get hold of it after I am gone, one part of it being more important than the other: Allah's Book, which is a rope stretched from Heaven to Earth, and my close relatives, who belong to my household. These two will not separate from one another till they come down to the reservoir, so consider how you act regarding them after my departure."​

Clearly prophet of Islam says if you don't want to go astray you should follow these 2 : holly book and household and at the end it says these 2 come down to the pond which is pond of Kowsar which holly book clearly refers to it as prophet doughter Fatima Alzahra (sa) ... again no sign of other caliphs.
Why household? 'cause God in Holly book clearly has purified them from any sin.
Who is household?

3:61
Then whoever argues with you about it after [this] knowledge has come to you - say, "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then supplicate earnestly [together] and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars [among us]."

And whom prophet (pbuh) took by himself? Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husayn .. base on these verse Imam Ali is equal by prophet "ourselves and yourselves" ....

Then we have this narration:

"He who dies without knowing the Imam of his time, dies the death of (the days of) ignorance (Jahiliyya)." – Prophet Muhammad (SAWA)
So there should a person whom if you don't recognized him you die the death of (the days of) ignorance (Jahiliyya) which means you didn't recognize Islam 'cause the only different between days of ignorance and now is Islam ... so it's very important , this Imam must be like the prophet not an ordinary person. who is he?
The most important Q about this narration is who was Imam of Fatima Al zahra (as)? surly none of those caliphates 'cause she died while she wan angry at them .. so either you say the 3 guys were caliphs which means she died the death of ignorance or there were not caliphs ...

the other narration is this :

"The (Islamic) religion will continue until the Hour (Day of Resurrection), having Twelve Caliphs for you; all of them will be from Quraysh."

Who are these caliphs?12 caliphs?

The other narration:


The Prophet said to Ali,


"Will you not be pleased that you will be to me like Aaron to Moses?” (Volume 5, Book 59, Number 700: Sahih Bukhari)​

"O Allah! My brother Moosa implored You saying: 'O my Lord! Expand my heart and make my Amr easy and undo the knot in my tongue so that they may understand my talk and appoint from among my Ahl Haaroon, my brother, as my Wazir and strengthen my back with him and make him partner in my Amr.' You inspired him: 'We shall soon strengthen your arm with your brother and make you both dominant.' O Allah! I am Your Servant and Your Messenger Muhammad. I implore You to expand my heart and make my Amr easy and appoint from among my Ahl Ali, my brother, as my Wazir."​

 
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THEY? and who are they? And who are you when you say "we and our"?.

was there any shiaism during the life of Prophet (PBUH)? what does a shia mean? :)

What a pathetic comeback!

Get this though your head! Ali (S) was the 1st Muslim convert! It was Ali (S) who 1st wrote the Quran! Ali was the Son-in-Law of the Prophet and it was Ali (S) who the prophet picked as his successor and 1st disciple!
Pathetic culture (IF YOU CAN CALL IT THAT) of the people that lived in Saudi Arabia today used his age as an excuse to refuse him and even after he accepted to back off to prevent divisions they killed him!!!!!
WHO DID! The people that gained power did!

We will follow what Mohammad (PBUH) wanted and that was for Ali to be his 1st Imam, Disciple, Successor,...!!!

If that's not clear to you then that is YOUR problem not mine!!

THEY? and who are they? And who are you when you say "we and our"?.

was there any shiaism during the life of Prophet (PBUH)? what does a shia mean? :)

If the Prophet of Islam declaring him as his successor wasn't clear to you!
If the Prophet of Islam entrusting only him with his only child & daughter wasn't clear to you
If the Prophet of Islam entrusting him as the 1st person to wrote the words of GOD was not clear to you & the fact that he was the very 1st Muslim convert wasn't clear to you!
THEN YOU ARE BLIND!
The Messenger of Islam was a prophet of God! NOT a KING! Not a Dictator! His successor has to spiritually be at that level! An Imam is a Spiritual Leader!!!!!!!!

I don't care who the people of that region wanted as a caliphate or a king! Those people a few years earlier were barring their own daughters alive simply because it was a girl! That was their culture!
So who they wanted as KING or Caliphate is irrelevant to me!

What is relevant is who the prophet picked as his successor in spiritual matters and that by all accounts was ALI (S)
who became the KING of the Saudi's means NOTHING TO ME!

NO ONE then had the spiritual knowledge that Ali (S) had! The prophet picked him! and we will do as he asked! so CRY AWAY!
 
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What a pathetic comeback!

Get this though your head! Ali (S) was the 1st Muslim convert! It was Ali (S) who 1st wrote the Quran! Ali was the Son-in-Law of the Prophet and it was Ali (S) who the prophet picked as his successor and 1st disciple!
Pathetic culture (IF YOU CAN CALL IT THAT) of the people that lived in Saudi Arabia today used his age as an excuse to refuse him and even after he accepted to back off to prevent divisions they killed him!!!!!
WHO DID! The people that gained power did!

We will follow what Mohammad (PBUH) wanted and that was for Ali to be his 1st Imam, Disciple, Successor,...!!!

If that's not clear to you then that is YOUR problem not mine!!

The Last Prophet of Islam Muhammad (PBUH) did not pick anyone his successor since Islam was completed upon the Prophet and there was no NEED for any successor as far as religion of Islam was concerned.

Now come back to the rule then let us debate that as well. All the first three Caliphs were supported by Hazrat Ali (RA) but you shias are refusing to accept them means you are even going against the decision of ALI (RA). That is level of your hate for ARABS nothing else.

The coming years and decades did see political differences and even there had been political differences between Hazrat Ali (RA) and Hazrat Aysha (RA). So we as mere mortals and simple human who are much bellow these revered and sacred companions of the Prophet (PBUH), cannot take sides and curse anyone of them.
All of them were loved and respected by the Prophet so we are bound to respect them. But I am unable to understand how on earth you shias can disrespect and abuse companions of the Prophet.


The killing of Great Ali (RA) was done by khawarij and the historical narrative of this incident is agreed by all sects including Sunnis, Shias. Those who killed Imam Ali (RA) and grandson and ahlebaait nobody has any respect or regard for those maloon killers. So stop using the collective phrase like they making it a connotation towards entire Sunni world.

The difference between you shias and us sunnis is that you disrespect Sahaba e Rasool (companions of the Prophet (PBUH), namely Hazrat Abu Bakar, Hazrat Usman, Hazrat Umar), but we do respect all caliphs including Hazrat Ali (RA). We cannot show even an ounce of any disregard towards him because he is our own revered and respected son in law of our beloved Prophet .
 
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What a pathetic comeback!

Get this though your head! Ali (S) was the 1st Muslim convert! It was Ali (S) who 1st wrote the Quran! Ali was the Son-in-Law of the Prophet and it was Ali (S) who the prophet picked as his successor and 1st disciple!
Pathetic culture (IF YOU CAN CALL IT THAT) of the people that lived in Saudi Arabia today used his age as an excuse to refuse him and even after he accepted to back off to prevent divisions they killed him!!!!!
WHO DID! The people that gained power did!

We will follow what Mohammad (PBUH) wanted and that was for Ali to be his 1st Imam, Disciple, Successor,...!!!

If that's not clear to you then that is YOUR problem not mine!!



If the Prophet of Islam declaring him as his successor wasn't clear to you!
If the Prophet of Islam entrusting only him with his only child & daughter wasn't clear to you
If the Prophet of Islam entrusting him as the 1st person to wrote the words of GOD was not clear to you & the fact that he was the very 1st Muslim convert wasn't clear to you!
THEN YOU ARE BLIND!
The Messenger of Islam was a prophet of God! NOT a KING! Not a Dictator! His successor has to spiritually be at that level! An Imam is a Spiritual Leader!!!!!!!!

I don't care who the people of that region wanted as a caliphate or a king! Those people a few years earlier were barring their own daughters alive simply because it was a girl! That was their culture!
So who they wanted as KING or Caliphate is irrelevant to me!

What is relevant is who the prophet picked as his successor in spiritual matters and that by all accounts was ALI (S)
who became the KING of the Saudi's means NOTHING TO ME!

NO ONE then had the spiritual knowledge that Ali (S) had! The prophet picked him! and we will do as he asked! so CRY AWAY!
chill out bro.
All the first three Caliphs were supported by Hazrat Ali (RA) but you shias are refusing to accept them means you are even going against the decision of ALI (RA). That is level of your hate for ARABS nothing else.
Thats not true sis. you're an intelligent person and i expect more from you.

Our prophet was an Arab, Imam Ali(A.S) was an Arab, Fatima bent al-rasool (A.S) was also an Arab. yet we're muslims and we follow their teachings. God is the God of Arab and Persian and Kurd and pashtun ...

he doesn't differentiate between his humans based on ethnicity and Race.

Now TBH, me as an individual are not a fan of Saudi nationality but that doesn't have to do with Arabs as an ethnicity.
companions of the Prophet.
the problem is the definition of companionship and sahaba.

we don't believe those who have "seen" the prophet are sahaba. we believe only his true friends are sahaba like Imam Ali (A.S) or hz. Abu Bakr .

Based on the Fatwas of all major Shia marja, any insult to the wives of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH and his family) or his Sahaba (per our definition of Sahaba) is one of the Greatest sins.
The killing of Great Ali (RA) was done by khawarij and the historical narrative of this incident is agreed by all sects including Sunnis, Shias. Those who killed Imam Ali (RA) and grandson and ahlebaait nobody has any respect or regard for those maloon killers. So stop using the collective phrase like they making it a connotation towards entire Sunni world.
Thumbs up :)
The difference between you shias and us sunnis is that you disrespect Sahaba e Rasool (companions of the Prophet (PBUH), namely Hazrat Abu Bakar, Hazrat Usman, Hazrat Umar), but we do respect all caliphs including Hazrat Ali (RA). We cannot show even an ounce of any disregard towards him because he is our own revered and respected son in law of our beloved Prophet .
I repeat once again that Shia muslims CANNOT do what you said or else based on the Fatwa of their very own marja, they will have a hard akhirat. those who do so, are not from us.

but the issue we have here is not insulting them (God forbid). we believe that the Sahaba that you named (like hz.abubakr) were not معصوم and may have done their share of mistakes.

but differences of beliefs exist everywhere. do you believe that alternative beliefs is what brought muslim world to this misery ?

or is it sth else?

i don't believe that Sunni and Shia muslim's problems are so fundamental that we cannot even co-exist !!

we're all brothers and sisters :(
 
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Nowhere i mentioned about any hirarchy. it was prediction in Bible about 12 princes from Ishmael linage. same way there are predictions about Prophet Muhammad pbuh. In Islam All appointments are from Allah swt.

At No Point in Quran or Hadith there is any mention of appointment of above caliphs from Allah swt. (except Imam Ali a.s.). Self-declared caliphs, self declared amirul momineen, self declared khadim haramein.

You are complaining Just like an ISIS supporter, who are you to refuse their self declared caliph Abu Bakr Baghdadi and their Islamic State?

these rulers ruled arabia during their times. All our Imams lived during the sunni rule. Many occasions sayyids the descendants of Prophet pbuh revolted against corrupt rulers. we lived under these these self-declared Rulers. Shias lived under tough condition and suppression under sunni rule and we continue to expose their corruption and war mongering.

It was your inquiry about why follow 12 Imams. you already got my reply that Shias Believe in appointment by Prophet pbuh. In Shia Islamic sculptures there are plenty of Hadiths. The Will of Imam Ali when he handed over his Authority to Imam Hasan a.s. If there is book there is a leader which unfortunately u do not have.
Hazrat Ali was never declared Caliph and Caliph is chosen by Muslims. Hazrat Abu Bakar RA was the first caliph of Islam and Hazrat Umar RA second and Hazrat Usman third and Hazrat Ali fourth. You lies about history won't change anything.

Now as for topic what Iran needs to do it stop pushing Iranian minorities to revolt against Sunni Majority nations. Iranian actions only result in more trouble for Shias around the world. So Iran needs to end this stupidity.
 
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The Last Prophet of Islam Muhammad (PBUH) did not pick anyone his successor since Islam was completed upon the Prophet and there was no NEED for any successor as far as religion of Islam was concerned.

Now come back to the rule then let us debate that as well. All the first three Caliphs were supported by Hazrat Ali (RA) but you shias are refusing to accept them means you are even going against the decision of ALI (RA). That is level of your hate for ARABS nothing else.

The coming years and decades did see political differences and even there had been political differences between Hazrat Ali (RA) and Hazrat Aysha (RA). So we as mere mortals and simple human who are much bellow these revered and sacred companions of the Prophet (PBUH), cannot take sides and curse anyone of them.
All of them were loved and respected by the Prophet so we are bound to respect them. But I am unable to understand how on earth you shias can disrespect and abuse companions of the Prophet.

The killing of Great Ali (RA) was done by khawarij and the historical narrative of this incident is agreed by all sects including Sunnis, Shias. Those who killed Imam Ali (RA) and grandson and ahlebaait nobody has any respect or regard for those maloon killers. So stop using the collective phrase like they making it a connotation towards entire Sunni world.

The difference between you shias and us sunnis is that you disrespect Sahaba e Rasool (companions of the Prophet (PBUH), namely Hazrat Abu Bakar, Hazrat Usman, Hazrat Umar), but we do respect all caliphs including Hazrat Ali (RA). We cannot show even an ounce of any disregard towards him because he is our own revered and respected son in law of our beloved Prophet .

It is hilarious that u yourself are declaring that those caliphs are not appointed by Allah swt and Prophet pbuh.

when there was no need for a successor then from where your caliphs came.

Anything which is Not from Allah swt and Prophet pbuh is Not ISLAM.

So there is no difference between isis caliph and those caliph since both admit they are not appointed by Allah swt.

you can make you kingdom but do NOT call it ISLAM.

Islam has nothing to do with your claims.

It is Good that after 1400 years you people are admitting that your caliphs are NOT the successor of the Prophet pbuh and are NOT Appointed by Allah swt and Prophet pbuh. This is your another insult to Islam since u are blaming them of all problem.

If you caliphs are Not the successors then what we have to do with them. just trash them like daesh caliph abu bakr. you are no different to isis. That is why many of you follow him as caliph of God which is not Appointed by God.

Hazrat Ali was never declared Caliph and Caliph is chosen by Muslims. Hazrat Abu Bakar RA was the first caliph of Islam and Hazrat Umar RA second and Hazrat Usman third and Hazrat Ali fourth. You lies about history won't change anything.

Now as for topic what Iran needs to do it stop pushing Iranian minorities to revolt against Sunni Majority nations. Iranian actions only result in more trouble for Shias around the world. So Iran needs to end this stupidity.

LOL. why is this all hue are cry when your caliphs are Not from Allah swt and Prophets pbuh. :lol:

you make caliphs and ask others to respect them and not even question them.

we will continue to expose their corruption and war mongering.

sunnis cannot become majority by importing immigrants. sunnis are minority in M.E.
sunnis are majority in Africa and other parts but Not in Arabian Peninsula.
Shiite enemies are trying hard to turn Shias into minority in M.E. but they will not succeed.

Shias are Not afraid of sunnis. we are fighting your caliph Abu bakr baghdadi which you tried to install in shiite lands.

sunnis cannot have any caliph anymore. Get into your head. you already lost the war. :lol:

It is era of our Prophet pbuh appointed 12th Imam Mahdi a.s. While the era of your caliphs is a history.
 
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