why iran must stop calling themself shias for peace between muslim countries

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Islam has one prophet and book, which is sent by Allah.

The Kuran and Hz. Muhammed is the only source for muslims.

I wish i had not gone into this section and especially this thread as always i do. The life always finds ways for testing you as a muslim.

@WebMaster

I hope you delete some posts which disturb you as well.

 

[Erl]

You know I think Iran needs to build up a more coherant and clear policy minus the confusion but I do not a regard Iran a threat to Pakistan. Indeed I regard Iran a brother - confused some what but still a brother.

What I can't understand is do people like @BATMAN not see the following implicit or explicit alliances in the region. I think they can't look beyond the sectarian divide.

TEAM USA
Israel
USA
India

and their lower thier support base-

Sudia Arabia
Kuwait
Turkey
UAE

TEAM CHINA
China
Pakistan
Russia


And Iran sort of floating around alone contonously threatened by team USA. This grouping I made has some aspects that are still emerging and others that are dwindling but this is the contours of the future. Iran really needs to come out of it's confused state and join Team China and form a solid Euroasian block.

Russia is always a bridge between west and east you know, cannot be completely reliable. But about China i would agree with you, China is a great friend. But don't expect us to align with them. Our ideology is an Islamic civilization which forces us to tolerate the darkest hours of our history.
About Iran-India economical ties, i cannot deny that it harm our relations with Pakistan but remember we tried to match our interests with Pakistan throughout a pipe line which i was sure India will withdraw from due to USA's pressures but i hoped Pakistan will stand at least for it's own benefits. Solving the energy crisis problem of Pakistan through LNG is a laughable ridiculous imagination and i have no doubt even the TAPI pipe line will not satisfy Pakistan's energy hungry society in the future. Why did Pakistan refuse the most gainful way of importing energy?! I have no idea. Plus that pipeline could lower the tensions between India-Pakistan and force India to follow UN's resolution over the issue of Kashmir. Pakistan refused it however yet i consider Pakistan as a brother country.
Again i should tell you bro, we will never align with any of world super power. It's hard to tolerate but necessary to develop an Islamic civilization.
Best regards brother.

 

[T-72M1]

How strong is the 'Persian' identity in Iran vis a vis the 'muslim' or 'shi'ite' identity ?

 

[B@KH]

You know I think Iran needs to build up a more coherant and clear policy minus the confusion but I do not a regard Iran a threat to Pakistan. Indeed I regard Iran a brother - confused some what but still a brother.

What I can't understand is do people like @BATMAN not see the following implicit or explicit alliances in the region. I think they can't look beyond the sectarian divide.

TEAM USA
Israel
USA
India
and their lower thier support base-
Sudia Arabia
Kuwait
Turkey
UAE

TEAM CHINA
China
Pakistan
Russia

And Iran sort of floating around alone contonously threatened by team USA. This grouping I made has some aspects that are still emerging and others that are dwindling but this is the contours of the future. Iran really needs to come out of it's confused state and join Team China and form a solid Euroasian block.

Iran is not a threat to any one. Not even to ksa. Iran's only problem is Israel.

rest, you people do not have understanding of alliance. so this all grouping is imaginary and fake.

Vietnam succeeded with blood of China revolution but ended up USA vs RUSSIA.
Afghan survived with the blood of Iran revolution but ended up USA vs RUSSIA.
Syria survived with the blood of Iran revolution but ending up USA vs RUSSIA as usual.

so your all grouping is wrong except that Iran is independent and alone.

 

[BATMAN]

You know I think Iran needs to build up a more coherant and clear policy minus the confusion but I do not a regard Iran a threat to Pakistan. Indeed I regard Iran a brother - confused some what but still a brother.

What I can't understand is do people like @BATMAN not see the following implicit or explicit alliances in the region. I think they can't look beyond the sectarian divide.

TEAM USA
Israel
USA
India

and their lower thier support base-

Sudia Arabia
Kuwait
Turkey
UAE

TEAM CHINA
China
Pakistan
Russia


And Iran sort of floating around alone contonously threatened by team USA. This grouping I made has some aspects that are still emerging and others that are dwindling but this is the contours of the future. Iran really needs to come out of it's confused state and join Team China and form a solid Euroasian block.

Look at the mouth piece of administration giving certificate of sectarianism and ignoring all the takfirism from his masters.
This is common observation here from years, when ever some one talk of sense and identify Islam with its basics minus fiction (invented in UK/France) they are killed, blamed, labled and of course are called non-Muslims.
Some burgeler will shoot them, they will engage in road accident, some one will come from no where... start brawl with them.... all of this has been old tactics.
I grew up among Christians and Qadianis, I lived in ME but never learned bit of religon, until i started following debates of banned Arabs and today's mods. and TT.
What i witnessed was ... no facts, TOTAL propaganda, TOTAL blame, TOTAL falsification and twisitng of words.
Do you have anything other than that?

Now since i already replied to your BS....let me ask you few questions:
Howcome you failed to see the making of Isis in regions, which are mutually controlled by Iran and US?
Did you not failed to see, Iran being totally dependent on (arms related) technological support from Pakistani traitors, USSR, Europeans but still mange to threat US?
Doesn't US marines know, that they were never authorised of sending stern reply to Iran as they were asked to delivered to Saddam?
Didn't US made false case against Saddam regime and Taliban regime, only to kill those whom Iran wanted to kill?
Do you not see dance of India and Iran, at borders of Iran and Afghanistan?
Do you think that US and Iran would keep making world fool, If US had fired 10 patriots 10 years ago at Qum from Afghanistan, Iran would have been liberated, long before fraudulant re-election of Ahmedi Nejad and Pakistan and Pakistan would have been saved from all the terrorism, it faced during Zardari + ANP rule.

TTP your foot, but what about those who created it ? those who created are your head ?

Creators of TTP... Isis are same. They both fell from sky with all their might once when Afghanistan was handed over to Iran and second time when Iraq was handed over to Iran.

Iran is not a threat to any one. Not even to ksa.

Missiles fired at Pakistan and KSA are not threat of any sort to you?
US expanding Iran borders from Afghanistan to Syria to Yemen and in news they threaten each other!!!!

 

[Aramagedon]

Sectarianism is a course I just put some info here for the ones who say why are you Sunni, Shia, etc...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verse_of_Wilayah

Ali (A) gave someone his ring in alms while he was in the state of rukūʿ in prayer. The Prophet (S) asked the beggar, "Who gave you this ring?" He replied, "That man during rukūʿ." Then Allah sent down the verse, "Your master and guardian is only Allah, His Messenger, and those who believe, those who establish ṣalāt and pay zakāt while they are bowing in rukūʿ." On that was written, "Glory be to He who honored me by making me His slave." After that it was engraved on his ring that all power and authority belongs to Allah.[5]

Your master and guardian is only Allah, His Messenger, and those who believe, those who establish ṣalāt and pay zakāt while they are bowing in rukū. Noble Quran [5:55]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_event_of_Ghadir_Khumm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_pond_of_Khumm

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH and his family) said, 'O people, Allah is my Lord and I am the lord of the believers. I am worthier of believers than themselves. Of whomsoever I had been Master (Mawla), Ali here is to be his Master. O Allah, be a supporter of whoever supports him (Ali) and an enemy of whoever opposes him and divert the Truth to Ali.'

Ya mawla Ali

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_two_weighty_things

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahl_al-Kisa



Hadith of the pen and paper
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Part of a series on
Muhammad

This is a sub-article to the Succession to Muhammad.
The Hadith of the pen and paper is a hadith in Islam about an event when the Islamic prophet Muhammad expressed a wish to write something down. The hadith is referenced in both Shia and Sunni traditions.[1]

Shias also refer to it as "The Calamity of Thursday" (Arabic Raziyat Yawm al-Khamis).[2]

Contents
[1Narration

• 2Views
  • 2.1Sunni view
  • 2.2Shia view

• 3See also

• 4References

• 5External links

This section relies too much on references to primary sources. Please improve this section by addingsecondary or tertiary sources. (April 2014) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)
Muhammad became ill in the year 632 and his health took a serious turn on a Thursday. It is reported that Muhammad asked for writing materials to write a statement that would prevent the Muslim nation from going astray forever. The first person to reply was Umar, answering that there was no need for the statement, arguing that Muhammad was ill and that the Muslims had The book of Allah "Hasabuna Kitaab Allah (the Book of Allah is enough for us)".[3]

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

When Allah's Apostle was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise."

— Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_pen_and_paper

-------------------------------------------------------

Bibi Fatemah (PBUH) (daughter of prophet) became first martyr of Ahlulbayt:

Sunni Reports that support the Shia view:
Sunni historians say,

When Umar came to the door of the House of Fatima, He said: By Allah, I shall burn down the house over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr. At this point, Fatima apprached Umar and said, O Umar, would you dare? Do you wish to set my house on fire? Umar said: Yes, Unless you give Bayya to Abu Bakr, and enter into that which the majority of the Ummah have agreed to.

History of Tabari, Volume 1, Page 1118-1120 History of Ibn Athir, Volume 2, Page 325 Tareek Abul Fida, Page 235

Furthermore, it is reported: On the day of pledging allegiance to Abu Bakr, Umar hit the stomach of Fatima until she miscarried Muahassan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_at_Fatimah's_house

 

[BATMAN]

May be you think Quran is in your pocket like a cigarette pack. Look when you cannot get the meaning of الم then you do not have any right to talk about Quran. you lost it.

Keeping Quran in pockets is meaning less.... by not knowing meaning of 3 letters dosn't define ignorant.
You call others non-Muslims and ship weapons to non state actors in bid to destabalize Islamic world is addressed as FITNA, which is forbidden in same Quran.
You bunch have no right to call any one infidel, which you conclude with impunity on this forum, as you have done it within this thread.
When you people ignore proven Iranian role in destablizing Pakistan, than its evidence that your masters live in Qum and when you cleverly try to abuse and accuse those who point out is also understandable.

 

[B@KH]

Look at the mouth piece of administration giving certificate of sectarianism and ignoring all the takfirism from his masters.
This is common observation years, when ever some one talk of sense and identify Islam with its basics minus fiction (invented in UK/France) they are killed, blamed, labled and of course called as are non-Muslims.
Some burgeler will shoot them, they will engage in road accident, some one will come from no where start brawl with them.... all of this has been old tactics.
I grew up among Christians and Qadianis, I lived in ME but never learned religon, as much i learned here following debates of banned Arabs and today's mods. and TT of defence.pk.
What i witness was ... no facts, TOTAL propaganda, TOTAL blame, TOTAL falsification and twisitng of words.
Do you have anything other than that?
Now since i already replied to your BS....let me ask you few questions:
Do you failed to see the making of Isis in regions, mutually controlled by Iran and US?
Do you failed to see, Iran totally dependent on technological support from Pakistani traitors, USSR, Europeans but still mange to threat US?
Does US mariens dosn't know that they were never authorised of sending stern reply to Iran as they were asked to delivered to Saddam?
Didn't US made false case against Saddam regime and Tom Iran Taliban regime, only to kill those whom Iran wanted to kill?
Do you not see dance of India and Iran, at borders of Iran and Afghanistan?
Do you think that US and Iran would keep making world fool, If US had fired 10 patriots 10 years ago at Qum from Afghanistan, Iran would have been liberated, long before fraudulant re-election of Ahmedi Nejad and Pakistan and Pakistan would have been saved from all the terrorism, it faced during Zardari + ANP rule.
Creators of TTP... Isis are same. They both fell from sky with all their might once when Afghanistan was handed over to Iran and second time when Iraq was handed over to Iran.
Missiles fired at Pakistan and KSA are not threat of any sort to you?
US expanding Iran borders from Afghanistan to Syria to Yemen and in news they threaten each other!!!!

you are confused.
on the one hand you talked about Quran and on the other hand you do not know what is written in it.

previous post you mentioned that usa behind taliban. now you are writing that usa removed taliban.

Listen when we should talk of Islamic IRAN then keep in mind all strength of Islam that is mention in Quran.
Quran is the answer to all of your qs.

You lived in M.E and forget that who invited usa in Arabia ?
who asked usa to topple saddam ?
Trying to make fake Islamic States at the doorstep of Iran.
Even ksa tried to make Pakistan a sunni state in 80s and Shias foiled the enemy plan.
Get into your head that USA marines are there to protect the monarchs and not to attack Iran.
Enemy know well that few missiles cannot defeat Islamic IRAN.
All IRan's enemies are armed with western weapons.

As per Quran Law, if they all try to destroy Islamic Revolution they will fail.

since you have so much distrust of usa and you even lived in M.E then your monarchs should ask usa to leave.

guess what will happen if usa leaves the region.

Infact you are stuck in a loop and can't see actual happenings.

so stop your propaganda against Islamic Revolution and become an honest man.

 

[BATMAN]

Sunni Reports that support the Shia view:

Sunnism is created by the same who created Shitism.
If some ignorants identify themselves with any of those 2 setcs. by any means and signs.... should shun it now.
This is what Erdoagn is saying and this is what late Pakistani leader M.A.Jinnah teached us.
I'm a Muslaman nothing more.. and you should not be able to see sect. even in my appearance.

 

[T-123456]

Hmnn, calling the minority not to call themselves what they are because that will divide the muslim community.

Hypocrisy at best by Mr. Erdogan, he should probably answer/address the condition of Kurds and then talk about peace & harmony.

There is no hmmmn in this case,there is no minority.
In the Quran there is no mention of sects which means that all Muslims are equal and sects do not exist.
Kurds are just fine in my country,the PKK doesnt represent all the Kurds(15 million at least),just a tiny minority so instead of making accusations,you should do some reasearch.
The PM is a Kurd,the chief of MIT(national intelligence agency) and some other ministers are also Kurd so,how is that possible when they are all oppressed?
It always better to know what you are talking about.
Ps,im sure you know that i dont support Erdogan so you cant use that against me.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Russia is always a bridge between west and east you know, cannot be completely reliable.

YEs, I know. In the long play of things they will fall in line with their brethren in Europe. But in the short term Pakistan can regard Russian as 'transient' partner. I am gonna say few things which probably won't be popular here but that need saying. Geography or culture (often both are interlinked) are the strongest foundation for alliances because they tend to create similar interests. I think for Pakistan geography dictates and limits it to the following long term goals.

1. Makes up and forms alliance with India.
2. Continues with China and then focus is placed on Iran, Afghanistan and Central Asia simply because they are our Western rim.

These are the only two long term goals Pakistan should work on and regard all others as 'transient'. I hear people say Turkey. I think unless strong evidence to the contrary comes to the fore - that country was 'lost' from the Islamic or Asian orbit in 1920 with Kemals reforms. Turkey will eventually find it's niche in Europe for which she has been mentally, culturally and politically preparing for since 96 years now. Eventually it will arrive at a compromise with the West and they will accept her as their own.

That process is well consolidated already and will be locked within next few decades. The reason why Turkey has not been accepted by the West fully is they don't now where to place them. They have very schizoid view of it. Is it Asiatic? Is it European? As we move forward Turkey will increasingly be adopted as European - even if it is Muslim like Bosnia is. However Turkey will be asked by the Europeans to prove it's Europeeness. This will be done by apllying the feminine/gay test. That is -

1. If a guy wants to hump another guy and wants the state to give official blessing - that is gay marriage is legalized.

2. If a women wants to sleep around and the state helps her in that. I call it the 'nigger test'. Guy comes home and wifes says "hey hubby meet Leroy from Kongo. I have been having a affair and I am pregnent from him. Can you please leave now and leave the house (his) keys. Leave car (his) keys. Oh yeh can you get your lawyer to contact my lawyer because you need to pay maintenance". The fvckin guy walks out quitely waves goodybe to the nigger and never to be seen again. He then goes to the local pub and gets drunk to forget his sorrows. Once the state backs this up and eventually men just accept this as part of life like they do in the West. Sorted.

3. You want to be part of Europe then you secure your borders so that no 'dirty Asiatics' cross it. There must be a clear iron barrier between Europe and the dirty backward Asiatics. It must be secure to stop them. This is being done right now as Turkey is busy in building walls across it's Asiatic side.

Once Turkey passes these three tests she will be in Europe.If anybody has ever seen canal locks. They work by creating a 'box' in the middle of two canals which are at differant elevations. The boat goes into the box. Water is pumped up until gets to the level of the other canal. Once it does the lock is opened and the boat sails into the other canal. That is where Turkey is today. It will always remaindly a friendly country but it's interests will be tied into Europe and in fact will become Europes 'chowkidar'. Pakistani's migrants are going to be gathered like animals and placed into holding cells and then sent back like cattle. At the moment this 'chowkidari" is being performed by Greece.

Therefore Pakistani's need to get out of their sectarian mindset and get to work with the Chinese trying to create a new order on it;s Western borders. I admit it's not going to be easy with the Mullahs in Iran but geography leaves Pakistan no choice.

If this can't be done then just make up with India. But I think working with China will create sufficient synergy to get this done.

@Chinese-Dragon @AmirPatriot

 

[BATMAN]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_at_Fatimah's_house

Writting any BS in wikipedia and selling it to those who believe you... is unfortunate.
Lies like these are the reasons of the current hate among Shias for those who don't agree with them.

previous post you mentioned that usa behind taliban. now you are writing that usa removed taliban.

All of you bunch are known for twisting the words.. this is the skill you need to aquire to cover your inventions.
TTP was made by Iran-India-US made to trigger trouble in Pakistan, where as Taliban regime was executed by Iran revolution guards, followed by carpet bombing and much more... which i just happened to watch on TV!!!

BTW.. i said something about Isis too... i assume, you agree to that one?

Rest Islamic Revolution is protected and powered by Almighty Allah swt and enjoys popular support all over the Globe.

Islamic revolution is protected and expanded by US, by changing demographics of region by killing millions of Muslims, men, women, babies alike.
If US was any bit serious, it would ask questions on militant training camps beyond Pakistan, where thousands of Pakistan and Afghans are trained rather blaming Pakistan army for running immaginary Taliban camps and keep bombing our border posts.

 

[SOHEIL]

Mr.ErDOGan can go **** himself !

 

[Erl]

All of you bunch are known for twisting the words.. this is the skill you need to aquire to cover your inventions.
TTP was made by Iran-India-US made to trigger trouble in Pakistan, where as Taliban regime was executed by Iran revolution guards, followed by carpet bombing and much more... which i just happened to watch on TV!!!

BTW.. i said something about Isis too... i assume, you agree to that one?

All i can say is You are blind.

 

[B@KH]

Writting any BS in wikipedia and selling it to those who believe you... is unfortunate.
Lies like these are the reasons of the current hate among Shias for those who don't agree with them.

All of you bunch are known for twisting the words.. this is the skill you need to aquire to cover your inventions.
TTP was made by Iran-India-US made to trigger trouble in Pakistan, where as Taliban regime was executed by Iran revolution guards, followed by carpet bombing and much more... which i just happened to watch on TV!!!

BTW.. i said something about Isis too... i assume, you agree to that one?

Islamic revolution is protected and expanded by US, by changing demographics of region by killing millions of Muslims, men, women, babies alike.

you are only spreading lies against Islamic Revolution and Shias. Shias are killed in millions during the past 5 decades. importing immigrants from around the world to camouflage shias is not successful strategy.

Islamic revolution never allowed usa to use its air space to bomb Afghanistan. Those who gave should answer. So your claim against Islamic IRAN is nullified here.

ISIS, TALIBAN, JUD, LET, LEJ, JI, JUI etc are all same.

your monarchs should deal with usa on whom they rely.

so USA is more powerful than GOD. this again shows your ignorance. you even do not know what you wrote.

in all you missed quran and Islam.

Islamic Revolution will continue to grow even if kuffar do not like it. it is promise of GOD.

you cannot defeat ISLAM.