WHY INDIAN MUSLIMS DON'T SAY VANDE MATARAM??WATCH AND FIND OUT

[Hulk]

The problem is how Islam is propagated. The people running/managing Islam they have their agenda to control Muslims as a religious group. They want to make sure that Muslims feel loyal to religion than country. There is highest level of insecurity seen in Muslims. If you see the things they object you realize they always fear that our group should not reduce in count. Social boycott of people not following their religion the way they wanted them to follow etc.

Now, I personally do not prescribe to say that you should say Vande Matram. But to come out and say I will not say is ridiculous. I know there are many Muslims who disagree with these Mullas. However, it is important that Muslims start to raise their voice within themselves against these stupid things. Time for them to start thinking at-least 20th century if not 21st century.

 

[Soulspeek]

You just proved my point with your own 'proof' & background story. Vande Mataram is ACTUALLY based on Goddess Kali Mata aka Bharat Mata.

The fact that I dont subscribe to Kali mata or Bharat Mata makes me ungrateful Indian. Foolish bhakt logic.

No more discussion needed. Thank you.

Here is the True Story of How Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay "Midwifed" Anandmutt.

It might be an eye opener for ungrateful Indians like you. A reminder that how christian had side with the british, and now you have the audacity to come here and offer sanctimonious opinion on religious nut-cases.


The seeds of Bankimchandra's anti-British sentiments were sown in Berhampore, the district headquarters of Murshidabad district where he was posted as a Deputy Magistrate (he was the first Bengali to be offered a job in the civil service).

It was the 15th of December 1873 when Bankimchandra was, as usual, crossing the Barrack Square field opposite the Collectorate in his palanquin while some Englishmen were playing cricket. Suddenly one Lt. Colonel Duffin stopped the palanquin with some abusive remarks and insisted that it should be taken out of the field. When Bankim refused to abandon his customary route, Duffin apparently forced him to alight from the palanquin and pushed him violently (as reported in the Amrita Bazar Patrika of 8.1.1974).

Witnesses to the incident included the Raja of Lalgola Jogindranarain Roy, Durgashankar Bhattacharji of Berhampur, Judge Bacebridge, Reverend Barlow, Principal Robert Hand and some others. Furious at the insult, Bankimchandra filed a criminal case against the Colonel, with the Lalgola Raja, Durgashankar Bhattacharji and Hand cited as witnesses. Duffin had to get a lawyer from Krishnagar in Nadia district, as no one in Berhampore was willing to appear for him, while all the local lawyers had signed vakalatnamas for Bankimchandra.

On 12th January 1874 the Magistrate, Mr. Winter, summoned Duffin and had just begun to question him when Judge Bacebridge entered and requested a few words in his chamber. After a little while they called in Bankimchandra and Duffin. Apparently they told Bankimchandra that Duffin had not recognized that Bankim was a Deputy Magistrate and regretted the incident. They requested Bankimchandra to withdraw the case.

This he was not prepared to do and after much persuasion agreed, provided Duffin offered a formal apology in open court. Reluctantly, Duffin agreed. Winter took his chair in the court thereafter and in his presence, before a packed court, Lt. Col. Duffin offered an unconditional apology to Bankimchandra. The Amrita Bazar Patrika of 15.1.1874 reports: 'It appears that the colonel and the Babu were perfect strangers to each other and he did not know who he was when he affronted him. On being informed afterwards of the position of the Babu, Col. Duffin expressed deep contrition and a desire to apologise. The apology was made in due form in open court where about a thousand spectators, native and Europeans, were assembled.'

Almost immediately thereafter we find Bankimchandra taking three months leave. After this incident there must have been considerable resentment in the Berhampore Cantonment among the British militia and, apprehending bodily harm, Rao Jogindranarain Roy took Bankimchandra away to stay with him in Lalgola.

In Lalgola the Guru of the raja's family was Pandit Kali Brahma Bhattacharya who practised tantrik sadhana. Kishanchand Bhakat has obtained an excerpt of seven slokas from a book in the family of Kali Brahma Bhattacharya whose rhythm, sense and even some words bear an uncanny resemblance to Bankim's "Vande Mataram' song.

There is an image of Kali in the Lalgola palace temple that is unique. Its four hands are bereft of any weapon. The two lower hands are folded in front (karabadhha), the palm of one covered by that of the other, just as a prisoner's hands are shackled. From behind, the image is shackled to the wall with numerous iron chains. Kali is black, of terrifying mien, naked, a serpent between her feet, and Shiva a supine corpse before her.

On either side of this unusual Kali we find Lakshmi, Sarasvati, Kartik and Ganesh, who are never represented with this goddess. It is in this Kali that Bankim envisioned Mother as she will be and that is why he wrote, 'tvam hi durga dashapraharana dharini, Thou, indeed, art Durga, ten-armed, weapon-wielding'.

It is this temple that is the source of Bankimchandra's 'Monastery of Bliss'.

 

[Nimitam]

You just proved my point with your own 'proof' & background story. Vande Mataram is ACTUALLY based on Goddess Kali Mata aka Bharat Mata.

The fact that I dont subscribe to Kali mata or Bharat Mata makes me ungrateful Indian. Foolish bhakt logic.

No more discussion needed. Thank you.

There is no discussion. You are not my equal, I am educating you.

'Vande Mataram" can be based on anything, from Kali mata to the Loch Ness Monster to UFOs and that should not be your concern.

What should matter is that it refers to the Nation. The "santan" or 'children' mentioned in Anandmatt are "Children of Mother India", not children of Kali or children of durga.

Foolish bhakt logic is far more sound than foolish christian prejudiced logic.

 

[livingdead]

I am talking about the book Anandmutt. Have you even read it ?

The story of Anandmath is told in four parts over a period of four years with the man famine-stricken state of Bengal, set in 1771 under the tyranny of the British rule as the background.

The story depicts how all the wealth of the rich landlords is rendered worthless as it cannot buy them anything to eat; the poor die anyway. The extent of the famine can be judged by the fact that villagers turn into cannibals in search of food. Vast extents of deep jungles being their killing fields. They would kill travellers and eat their flesh. (This is how the word "Thugs" were invented)

At the same time, however, a group of Sanyasis, known as the Order of the Children decides to take on the British. They are lead by an old and very learned Sanyasi, Mahatma Satya.

How the Sanyasis take on the British is what the novel is all about.


The Famine itself was created when the British forced the farmers to grow Indigo and not food crops.

If you are lazy and bigoted enough to offer opinions on an Classic without even reading it, then at least do yourself a favour and watch the movie adaptation of the Novel.

I have read 'Anandmath', thats the book I am talking about.. its racist towards muslims and paints them as enemy... every hindu should read the book and make up their own mind as to why a muslim would be unhappy. Why dont you read again.

dont care about movie, I have not watched.
@Soulspeek do read the book, your blood will boil if you are muslim.

 

[Nimitam]

I have read 'Anandmath', thats the book I am talking about.. its racist towards muslims and paints them as enemy... every hindu should read the book and make up their own mind as to why a muslim would be unhappy. Why dont you read again.

dont care about movie, I have not watched.
@Soulspeek do read the book, your blood will boil if you are muslim.

LOL..... if you had actually read the book you would have known that the Book was banned by the British and it was about the Sanyasi Rebellion which too was against the british


The entire book is backdropped against the Bengal Famine between 1769 to 1773. Who do you think was Ruling Bengal in 1770 ? It was the Muslim Nawabs and this band of merry men. His excellency Sayyid Mubarak Ali Khan (Son of Mir Jaffar the traitor)

The muslim Nawab Exploited the bengali populations to pay revenues to the East India company so that they could hold on to power. Paying Bribes to Robert Clive in excess of 2 million rupees/pounds, which was almost half the total land revenue of bengal. Implementing the rule to forcibly grow Indigo and not food crops.

All this while the population starved and Died.

Do you know how many Bengali's died in that famine ? 10 Million died of starvation. It was the quarter of the entire Population of Bengal.

This while the Nawab had 12 sons and 15 daughters.


How exactly do you want the Bengalis to paint the Muslim rulers and their minnows in that book ? Praise them for killing 10 Million Bongs ?

But you are right about one thing. EVERY Hindu should read that book and so should every Muslim. If only to give you a glimpse into your glorious past.

The Rebellion that started in 1770 continued till 1840's by when the British had labelled them "Murderous Thugs" and had passed the "Thuggee and Dacoity Suppression Acts, 1836–1848" that gave them power to arrest and kill them on suspicion and that culminated in the Revolve of 1857.



The greatest Irony is that the Great grandson of this traitor Mir Jaffar was the First President of Pakistan (& Bangladesh), your very own Iskandar Mirza

 

[vsdave2302]

That is a relevation.....clearly its not working out for Muslims in Bharat !

In Pakistan, literacy rate went down by 2%. It is all over in subcontinet and not in india.

 

[livingdead]

LOL..... if you had actually read the book you would have known that the Book was banned by the British and it was about the Sanyasi Rebellion which too was against the british


The entire book is backdropped against the Bengal Famine between 1769 to 1773. Who do you think was Ruling Bengal in 1770 ? It was the Muslim Nawabs and this band of merry men. His excellency Sayyid Mubarak Ali Khan (Son of Mir Jaffar the traitor)

The muslim Nawab Exploited the bengali populations to pay revenues to the East India company so that they could hold on to power. Paying Bribes to Robert Clive in excess of 2 million rupees/pounds, which was almost half the total land revenue of bengal. Implementing the rule to forcibly grow Indigo and not food crops.

All this while the population starved and Died.

Do you know how many Bengali's died in that famine ? 10 Million died of starvation. It was the quarter of the entire Population of Bengal.

This while the Nawab had 12 sons and 15 daughters.


How exactly do you want the Bengalis to paint the Muslim rulers and their minnows in that book ? Praise them for killing 10 Million Bongs ?

But you are right about one thing. EVERY Hindu should read that book and so should every Muslim. If only to give you a glimpse into your glorious past.

The Rebellion that started in 1770 continued till 1840's by when the British had labelled them "Murderous Thugs" and had passed the "Thuggee and Dacoity Suppression Acts, 1836–1848" that gave them power to arrest and kill them on suspicion and that culminated in the Revolve of 1857.



The greatest Irony is that the Great grandson of this traitor Mir Jaffar was the First President of Pakistan (& Bangladesh), your very own Iskandar Mirza

the book goes far beyond muslim rulers.. it paints all muslims as bearded degenerates..
anyway... lets play a small game.. you nominate two members to read the book and I do the same. lets see their reaction.

 

[Nimitam]

the book goes far beyond muslim rulers.. it paints all muslims as bearded degenerates..
anyway... lets play a small game.. you nominate two members to read the book and I do the same. lets see their reaction.

Now I am certain you have not read the book.

The book has three parts where it comments on the muslims.

One is when the narrator says that everyone was angry a the muslims for the anarchy and lawlessness in their reign. He blames them for the death of Hindu way of life and Hindu identity.

This is a well recognized fact. How is stating a fact make it 'racist' ?

Second is when one of the protagonist exhorts his men to free their leader who was imprisoned by the muslim ruler. here he asks them to uproot the muslim rule and burn it to the ground. To throw it into the river. Muslims are called an unkind name in this rousing speech (swine) and the men then burn down muslim homes in their attack on the city. Then again in the story, a lot of hindus are also killed in the attack.

Third is when Satyananda says that one of the objective is to end muslim rule because they do not permit hindu gods to be worshipped, they are enemies of the lord. This too is a FACT as evidenced by the 4000 Temples destroyed by islam.

But again when Satyananda discovers that the muslim houses were pillaged, the tells them to Go back since there was no need for such evil course of action. He clearly asks people not to indiscriminately attack Muslim homes and pillage them.

There is no need to play games. The book does not glorify muslim rule, it identifies that rule as evil but the larger fight is for freedom and justice which the ruler did not provide. This is hardly surprising given the context.

The over arching theme of the book is inspiration to fight Tyranny, not bad mouth muslims.


But all this is moot. The Song itself has nothing to do with the story line. "Vande Mataram" in the verse is meant to inspire ALL children of the same mother , children born of the same land to fight against tyranny. Whatever be its religion or skin colour.

 

[Soulspeek]

Foolish man, dont try to educate me. Tomorrow you gonna say that xyz poet equated a swine to motherland and I should salute it!!

We respect our motherland and thats about it. We do not get dictated by chaddis.

We dont go by any person's poetic fantasies or your political master's beliefs. Keep your dumbo logic to yourself.

There is no discussion. You are not my equal, I am educating you.

'Vande Mataram" can be based on anything, from Kali mata to the Loch Ness Monster to UFOs and that should not be your concern.

What should matter is that it refers to the Nation. The "santan" or 'children' mentioned in Anandmatt are "Children of Mother India", not children of Kali or children of durga.

Foolish bhakt logic is far more sound than foolish christian prejudiced logic.

 

[livingdead]

Now I am certain you have not read the book.

The book has three parts where it comments on the muslims.

One is when the narrator says that everyone was angry a the muslims for the anarchy and lawlessness in their reign. He blames them for the death of Hindu way of life and Hind identity.

This is a well recognized fact. How is stating a fact make it 'racist' ?

Second is when one of the protagonist exhorts his men to free their leader who was imprisoned by the muslim ruler. here is asks them to uproot the muslim rule and burn it to the ground. To throw it into the river. Muslims are called an unkind name in this rousing speech (swine) and the men then burn down muslim homes in their attack on the city. Then again in the story, a lot of hindus are also killed in the attack.

Third is when Satyananda says that one of the objective is to end muslim rule because they do not permit hindu gods to be worshipped, they are enemies of the lord. This too is a FACT as evidenced by the 4000 Temples destroyed by islam.

But again when Satyananda discovers that the muslim houses were pillaged, the tells them to Go back since there was no need for such evil course of action. He clearly asks people not to indiscriminately attack Muslim homes and pillage them.

There is no need to play games. The book does not glorify muslim rule, it identifies that rule as evil but the larger fight is for freedom and justice which the ruler did not provide. This is hardly surprising given the context.

I doubt you will be equally understanding if a kashmiri muslim wrote same about tyranical hindu rulers and described all hindus as cowardly swines.
I would like people to read anandmath and make their own conclusion, while reading it, just pretend that you are a muslim.

 

[Nimitam]

Foolish man, dont try to educate me. Tomorrow you gonna say that xyz poet equated a swine to motherland and I should salute it!!

We respect our motherland and thats about it. We do not get dictated by chaddis.

We dont go by any person's poetic fantasies or your political master's beliefs. Keep your dumbo logic to yourself.

Clearly educating you is a futile exercise. Words of wisdom before a buffalo.

I can't say I will be surprised if you will vote to salute a swine rather than your motherland. People like you and Kanaiya Kumar take more pride in opposing patriotism than encouraging it. You apparently think that makes you a hero

Your claim about not getting "dictated by chaddis" reminds me of a similar statement by Asaduddin owaisi. you forgot to say "even if we put a sword on your neck". Its funny how Bigots have the same vocabulary. One a christian and another a muslim, yet birds of the same feather.

BTW "Vande Mataram" is Indian National song, so its also your political masters beliefs. Unless of course your political master sits in the Vatican.

I doubt you will be equally understanding if a kashmiri muslim wrote same about tyranical hindu rulers and described all hindus as cowardly swines.
I would like people to read anandmath and make their own conclusion, while reading it, just pretend that you are a muslim.

People call all Hindus as cowardly swine's in pdf all the time

No one is asking you to adopt 'Anandmutt" as your personal guide to India. It is a work of fiction.

The debate is about the song Vande Mataram which is independent of the story of that book. That song is about children of the same mother , Mother India. You are not required to read Anandmatt to understand that song. Anandmutt is not even relevant.

 

[livingdead]

Clearly educating you is a futile exercise. Words of wisdom before a buffalo.

I can't say I will be surprised if you will vote to salute a swine rather than your motherland. People like you and Kanaiya Kumar take more pride in opposing patriotism than encouraging it. You apparently think that makes you a hero

Your claim about not getting "dictated by chaddis" reminds me of a similar statement by Asaduddin owaisi. you forgot to say "even if we put a sword on your neck". Its funny how Bigots have the same vocabulary. One a christian and another a muslim, yet birds of the same feather.

BTW "Vande Mataram" is Indian National song, so its also your political masters beliefs. Unless of course your political master sits in the Vatican.



People call all Hindus as cowardly swine's in pdf all the time

No one is asking you to adopt 'Anandmutt" as your personal guide to India. It is a work of fiction.

The debate is about the song Vande Mataram which is independent of the story of that book. That song is about children of the same mother , Mother India. You are not required to read Anandmatt to understand that song. Anandmutt is not even relevant.

vande mataram was written by same guy... its relevant... it also proves that congress was completely insensitive in adopting this song for freedom struggle. we dont have to make same mistake twice, just because we did it earlier does not make it right.

as to calling hindus cowardly on pdf is concerned, I would be very surprised and upset if J&K assembly adopts such a song as their anthem or something, even if the song mentions nothing like that but was written by a divisive guy.

 

[Nimitam]

vande mataram was written by same guy... its relevant... it also proves that congress was completely insensitive in adopting this song for freedom struggle. we dont have to make same mistake twice, just because we did it earlier does not make it right.

Again how does it matter who wrote the song ? is anyone asking you to worship Bumkin chandra Chaterjee ? Nobody even knows who he is, most people do not even knows his name. No body has read Anandmatt and no body is asking anyone to read it either. Its a forgotten work of fiction.

The movie made on that book makes no negative reference to muslims. All those are forgotten in the mist of history.


'Vande Mataram' however is a well known inspirational song of freedom much loved and admired by almost all Indians. Before independence it was loved by many Muslims too.


Congress adopted the song because that was the demand of the people of India and they as representative of the people did what the people asked them to do.

In fact 'Vande Mataram' was selected to be the National Anthem by a vast Majority. It was Nehru who intervened and deflected the majority sentiment and adopted 'Jana Gana Mana' as the Anthem.

The mistake was in not adopting it as the National Anthem keeping in view the muslim blackmail. But to continue to extend that irrational blackmail till the end of eternity will be the mistake.

as to calling hindus cowardly on pdf is concerned, I would be very surprised and upset if J&K assembly adopts such a song as their anthem or something, even if the song mentions nothing like that but was written by a divisive guy.

LOL..... the very existence of Article 370 and the ethnic cleansing of Hindus from Kashmir is a million times worse than any adaptation of any song


I will welcome a song calling all hindus swine's if they will abolish 370 and welcome back hindus into their society.


You sure have a twisted sense of justice. No doubt inspired by your religion.

 

[livingdead]

Again how does it matter who wrote the song ? is anyone asking you to worship Bumkin chandra Chaterjee ? Nobody even knows who he is, most people do not even knows his name. No body has read Anandmatt and no body is asking anyone to read it either. Its a forgotten work of fiction.

The movie made on that book makes no negative reference to muslims. All those are forgotten in the mist of history.


'Vande Mataram' however is a well known inspirational song of freedom much loved and admired by almost all Indians. Before independence it was loved by many Muslims too.


Congress adopted the song because that was the demand of the people of India and they as representative of the people did what the people asked them to do.

In fact 'Vande Mataram' was selected to be the National Anthem by a vast Majority. It was Nehru who intervened and deflected the majority sentiment and adopted 'Jana Gana Mana' as the Anthem.

The mistake was in not adopting it as the National Anthem keeping in view the muslim blackmail. But to continue to extend that irrational blackmail till the end of eternity will be the mistake.

you call it blackmail, I call congress behaviour insensitive and majoritarian. its unsuitable to be national anthem. If it needs to be adopted by all Indians, it should be above board.
Jana gana mana was written for a british king, I wish they had written a fresh song as national anthem. still better than vande mataram though. vande mataram still is our national song.

 

[Nimitam]

you call it blackmail, I call congress behaviour insensitive and majoritarian. its unsuitable to be national anthem. If it needs to be adopted by all Indians, it should be above board.
Jana gana mana was written for a british king, I wish they had written a fresh song as national anthem. still better than vande mataram though. vande mataram still is our national song.

Democracy works on Majoritarianism, and it does not have to be apologetic about it.

There were plenty of objection to 'Jana Gana Mana' too, FAR more than 'Vande Mataram'. Its funny how you don't bring in Majoritarianism when it suites your agenda.

By your logic, we will never have a song suitable to be National Anthem or even a constitution. There is always someone who will find faults with it.

But the idea is that once it is adopted, we put aside our difference and opinion and embrace it. Only the people who reject 'Vande Mataram' wants to selectively embrace India.