Why Indian defence needs to keep pace with China

[sanibhagwan]

Disgusting.

You want millions of Chinese people to starve to death?

Why am I not surprised.

The habit of some members here making fun of anything and everything Indian is equally Disgusting. Isn't it?

Shameful for someone who belonged to a country with slums and starving children to suggest that to happen to another country.

That was exactly my point too.

Some members here make reference to "slums and starving children" of India, even if its not related to the Topic. People who had the same experience couple of decades ago should better understand the sensitivity of the topic and refrain from bringing it on.

 

[below_freezing]

And with this chart, what did u prove???? That u r superior to us in every aspect.... And even it is so, what r u gonna do about it??? Attack India and make us slaves.... Buddy, keep one thing in mind.... we have a saying here that who rises the fastest and most importantly, tries to unnecessarily show off about it, also comes down the fastest....

A day will come when USA, just out of false threat issues like of Biological Weapons that it made when it attacked Iraq, would enter and plunder your country and neither Russia nor India would step-in to save you or even give a damn about it.... SO, I suggest that you should take your lessons from History and Moral Science and General Science about the advantages of making True friends over bad foes, of unity and of co-operation.... Even Goliath was taken down by David in History and Egypt by Israel in Modern History, so, think before you speak!!!!!!

In this world, there are 2 countries that can nuke the US down: China and Russia. If the US nuked India, India could do literally NOTHING and is HELPLESS as its ICBMs cannot reach anywhere on US territory. However, if US tried to nuke China, we'll intercept their missiles with mid phase defense, and nuke them back, killing 80% of their population and permanently turning the country into no mans land. Please don't be crazy, and incredible, and start being credible. India and China should remove the WESTERN PAID SPIES like JayATL and Jackdraws who worship whites while looking down on other Indians, so we can build a better future together.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

The habit of some members here making fun of anything and everything Indian is equally Disgusting. Isn't it?

You think this is the first time that I have seen Indians laughing at dead Chinese people?

If they are not laughing about the great leap forward, then they are laughing about the Japanese war crimes during WW2.

So don't worry, I don't expect anything else.

 

[below_freezing]

You think this is the first time that I have seen Indians laughing at dead Chinese people?

If they are not laughing about the great leap forward, then they are laughing about the Japanese war crimes during WW2.

I expect nothing less. So don't worry, no need to be so sensitive.

The Great Leap Forward, while tragic, was only "equally bad" as India back then.

Death rates in the great leap forward were 25.6 / 10000, while in India's normal days in the same time period 1960, they were 25.4!

Great Leap Forward - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

UNFORTUNATELY, this section was DELETED by certain users, but the idea remains:

Other scholars have cautioned against taking a one-sided approach to the issue, and to see the issue in a wider context. For example Mobo Gao suggested that the Great Leap Forward did in fact have its own logic and rationality, and that its terrible effects came not from malign intent on the part of the Chinese leadership at the time, but instead relate to the structural nature of its rule, and the vastness of China as a country. Gao says "..the terrible lesson learnt is that China is so huge and when it is uniformly ruled, follies or wrong policies will have grave implications of tremendous magnitude".[52]

Others have suggested that while China did undoubtedly experience large numbers of famine deaths in the years 1958 to 1961, this toll has to be evaluated in light of the overall impressive achievement of Maoist China in dramatically improving life expectancy. Gao quotes figures showing that the Maoist revolution gave an estimated net positive value of 35 billion extra years of life to the Chinese people.[62]

Former Chinese dissident and political prisoner, Minqi Li, a Marxist Professor of Economics at the University of Utah, has produced data showing that even the peak death rates during the Great Leap Forward were in fact quite typical in pre-Communist China. Li (2008) argues that based on the average death rate over the three years of the Great Leap Forward, there were several million fewer lives lost during this period than would have been the case under normal mortality conditions before 1949. [63]

---------- Post added at 03:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 AM ----------

You think this is the first time that I have seen Indians laughing at dead Chinese people?

If they are not laughing about the great leap forward, then they are laughing about the Japanese war crimes during WW2.

I expect nothing less. So don't worry, no need to be so sensitive.

The Great Leap Forward, while tragic, was only "equally bad" as India back then.

Death rates in the great leap forward were 25.6 / 10000, while in India's normal days in the same time period 1960, they were 25.4!

Great Leap Forward - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

UNFORTUNATELY, this section was DELETED by certain users, but the idea remains:

Other scholars have cautioned against taking a one-sided approach to the issue, and to see the issue in a wider context. For example Mobo Gao suggested that the Great Leap Forward did in fact have its own logic and rationality, and that its terrible effects came not from malign intent on the part of the Chinese leadership at the time, but instead relate to the structural nature of its rule, and the vastness of China as a country. Gao says "..the terrible lesson learnt is that China is so huge and when it is uniformly ruled, follies or wrong policies will have grave implications of tremendous magnitude".[52]

Others have suggested that while China did undoubtedly experience large numbers of famine deaths in the years 1958 to 1961, this toll has to be evaluated in light of the overall impressive achievement of Maoist China in dramatically improving life expectancy. Gao quotes figures showing that the Maoist revolution gave an estimated net positive value of 35 billion extra years of life to the Chinese people.[62]

Former Chinese dissident and political prisoner, Minqi Li, a Marxist Professor of Economics at the University of Utah, has produced data showing that even the peak death rates during the Great Leap Forward were in fact quite typical in pre-Communist China. Li (2008) argues that based on the average death rate over the three years of the Great Leap Forward, there were several million fewer lives lost during this period than would have been the case under normal mortality conditions before 1949. [63]

 

[Obambam]

yep! We could have done better! But india clearly
Shows the merits of democracy: if one of the party
Is corrupt,the opposition will bring it to lime light and someone will end behind the bars!
This is true with development
Too.ex: in my state, the central
Govt. i.e. congress decided to
Sell rice for Rs.2/-(.05$). To gain a edge over the congress the state govt. i.e. The communist decided to sell
Rice for Rs.1/-(.025$)!

The media also does a great job. Also the laws ensure transparency. Ex:RTI Act.

There is nothing wrong with democracy in India. Hence we don't have Chinese pushing the communist/capitalist ideologies to India. People have to understand that there is no such thing as one model fits all. It either work or it doesn't. Since the ideology has benefitted China a great deal, we don't see the need to change it. Just like how democracy has clearly benefitted india and there is no need for India to change hers.

 

[Obambam]

The habit of some members here making fun of anything and everything Indian is equally Disgusting. Isn't it?



That was exactly my point too.

Some members here make reference to "slums and starving children" of India, even if its not related to the Topic. People who had the same experience couple of decades ago should better understand the sensitivity of the topic and refrain from bringing it on.

And you think 'the great leap forward' is? See sometimes you really need to think and see things outside of the box before jumping in.

 

[acetophenol]

There is nothing wrong with democracy in India. Hence we don't have Chinese pushing the communist/capitalist ideologies to India. People have to understand that there is no such thing as one model fits all. It either work or it doesn't. Since the ideology has benefitted China a great deal, we don't see the need to change it. Just like how democracy has clearly benefitted india and there is no need for India to change hers.

true! Most of the quick grown economy
were not democracy. I think if china was democratic,i wouldn't have achieved these
much progress. There would have been delays.

 

[sanibhagwan]

And you think 'the great leap forward' is? See sometimes you really need to think and see things outside of the box before jumping in.

And you think 'the great leap forward' is?

The answer to that is Yes and No.

Yes, because it deters the chinese trolls from bringing in sensitive anti-India remarks and make fun of India and Indians. And to make them realize they have an equally painful/forgettable recent past.

No, because it wasn't relevant to the topic

See sometimes you really need to think and see things outside of the box before jumping in

I don't know what that means in the context of this discussion.

P.S: I don't see a single post decrying or condemning that atrocious comment posted by a Chinese member.

e.g

Jai Hind - Indian National Salutation was used with sarcasm.
April fools day remark.

Just a reference of that sad incident (Great leap forward) gives so much hear burn. What would have you done if some Indian members foul mouths chinese national anthem or flag.

And worst of all he gets "thanked" for that post. Let me see if there are any saner voices across the border.

 

[Obambam]

The answer to that is Yes and No.

Yes, because it deters the chinese trolls from bringing in sensitive anti-India remarks and make fun of India and Indians. And to make them realize they have an equally painful/forgettable recent past.

No, because it wasn't relevant to the topic



I don't know what that means in the context of this discussion.

P.S: I don't see a single post decrying or condemning that atrocious comment posted by a Chinese member.

e.g

Jai Hind - Indian National Salutation was used with sarcasm.
April fools day remark.

Just a reference of that sad incident (Great leap forward) gives so much hear burn. What would have you done if some Indian members foul mouths chinese national anthem or flag.

And worst of all he gets "thanked" for that post. Let me see if there are any saner voices across the border.

My answer to you is 'No', it doesn't deter anything.
By repeating what you are accusing him of doing, then your hands aren't any cleaner.
Mind you, my comment about the 'slums and starving childrens' are not 'suggestive', but a 'reminder' for people like you to reflect on. And for you to suggest another 'great leap forward' to happen and being out of topic, then you are placing yourself in hot water. Consequently inviting further attacks which has no base value to this topic.

If you don't like the post, then report it. The button is there for a reason. Don't get yourself reported for doing the very same that you are accusing someone of doing.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

The answer to that is Yes and No.

Yes, because it deters the chinese trolls from bringing in sensitive anti-India remarks and make fun of India and Indians. And to make them realize they have an equally painful/forgettable recent past.

No, because it wasn't relevant to the topic

Good, keep doing that, increase the cycle of hostility.

Personally, I've heard it all before anyway. The Indian members here, never pass up an opportunity to laugh at dead Chinese.

Which is why I wasn't surprised at all. Not even a bit.

 

[JayAtl]

Good, keep doing that, increase the cycle of hostility.

Personally, I've heard it all before anyway. The Indian members here, never pass up an opportunity to laugh at dead Chinese.

Which is why I wasn't surprised at all. Not even a bit.

Chinese govt is worse perpetrator of the " laughing" when they lie about SARS deaths and earthquakes... when 100's of thousand go missing in china every year by its SS.

" 'I don't need it. I can just do it,' a uniformed police officer told Teng Biao last month when the dissident lawyer questioned the legal basis of the officer's demand to check his identity card. 'I believe you are being obstructive. If you don't cooperate with our work, the consequences will be on your own head,' the officer told Teng, according to video footage of their heated discussion provided to the German Press Agency dpa"

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Chinese govt is worse perpetrator of the " laughing" when they lie about SARS deaths and earthquakes... when 100's of thousand go missing in china every year by its SS.

Really should provide a source for that instead of making up numbers.

 

[desimorty]

They don't need to keep pace with each other, rather
the two are trying to keep pace with emerging technologies,
while it may seem that india wants to go to the moon because china did,
that is far from the truth. however
it can be said that China has done some stuff, for example the ASAT test,
just for nationalism, after all they also have a propaganda brigade!
this aside the two have nearly the same vision and goals, however
they go about it.
one may note, that both want the same number of
SSNs
Nukes, and Range
and defence budget.
despite small differences, either be Arjun make and Type 99
both these nations are in the same boat.
the largest threat to these nations, is not
Pakistan,
Japan,
Bangladesh,
Taiwan
rather it is their mutual fear of the United States,
Navy,
Airforce,
and he 1000+ nuclear warheads.
if you look at both nations nuclear weapons policy, both
aim to achieve the same goal,
stop the enemy from trying to nuke them, by
having a minimum deferent,
Pakistan OTOH has a different policy,
stop India's conventional dominance via
nuclear weapons.

It is realistic to presume, weather it be
India or China,
the United States will have air dominance, but
to actually hold Indian or Chinese Territory's is another question,

The policy of the United States when dealing with large nations with a massive condensed population,
is the same, it is too
bring down the governments, be it
a dictatorship,
or democracy, by
inflicting heavy damages with the USN and USAF to the point,
that the local unrest causes societal/political collapse. until
the objective is met, with either
the PLA of IA surrendering,
what ever it was they were fighting over, such as
Taiwan, or Kashmir.

 

[desimorty]

India is doing a great job. All I was trying to say was India can perform much better. The government just have to be wiser with its spending.

Actually I beg to differ,
despite the remarkable growth,
I believe the governments, should wait and discuss spending of anything to
make sure that the resources are being properly allocated.
If the government of India invests in infrastructure that is not needed,
it would be a waste and a money pit!
however, they should invest in key areas that really do need, ie
power,
clean water,
roads, and rail,
education
etc...
with all this,
i don't think the Indian Government should approve projects,
that sound fancy but are not needed, (no/low demand)
realism is needed for safe investment.

 

[angeldemon_007]

^^^
And you who seems to be experts on the whole Asia, or i rather say who seems to have an opinion on every country belong to which nation ??? I just read all your thread and it is boring and i have one thing to say please stop posting man....its too much.

however, they should invest in key areas that really do need, ie
power,
clean water,
roads, and rail,
education
etc...

Yeah you should join our government. You think nobody knows here about these stuffs ??? But that doesnot mean we should reduce our defence spending....we spend only 1.6 % of our GDP.
India added 15,795 MW generation capacity in FY11
About others, its easy to lecture if you don't live in India, our government spends billions of dollars but nothing on much changes because most of the money goes into the pockets of politicians.

Despite this we are achieving a growth rate of 8-9 % while rest of the is facing economic slowdown. I hope this JanLokpal bill is passed soon as it will drastically change the situation.

As far as other things are concerned, its not easy to provide these facilities to more than 1 billion population, although it should not be an excuse but still its not an easy job.

i don't think the Indian Government should approve projects,
that sound fancy but are not needed, (no/low demand)
realism is needed for safe investment.

Right now India China has not enter into the fight like US-USSR. Its true whenever China increases its spending we also follow them but the fact is we are in a position were we can do this. Also we know our limitations and despite the fact that we can have a bigger defence budget we still are spending only 1.6 % while we should be spending around 2.8-3.0 % .

We are just making sure that in case of any adversary we are able to defend ourselves and our interest. Nobody is talking about matching China's spending, we are talking about keeping pace with China's spending. If their spending swell to a level where we cannot do anything else like in case of US, don't worry we will stop...but as of now we are not facing any such problem.